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Happy Birthday Ara Baliozian!

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  • Armenian
    replied
    Re: Happy Birthday Ara Baliozian!

    Originally posted by axel View Post
    It seems everyone in this (heated) debate is quite familiar with nazism, fascism, zionism... some having expressed sympathies with the former, others with the latter (Ara). So it would be enlightening to have your respective takes (including Ara's) on the following:
    There is nothing wrong with NSDAP (Nazi) ideology. As a matter of fact, compared to Bolshevism/Communism, Capitalism, modern forms of Socialism (which are in essence new forms of internationalism/globalism) Nazi political ideology, which in essence is national socialism, makes the most rational sense for any given nation. Nazism did 'not' destroy Germany, Nazism miraculously resurrected Germany. What destroyed Germany was an international consortium that wanted to stop their advance/progression before they could compete with their global wealth and power. Nevertheless, Germany's war effort was primarily against Bolshevism and international Jewry/Zionism. Had Nazis not preemptively attacked the Soviet Union, the chances were extremely high that the Soviet Union would attack western Europe. Moreover, tactically, the war for Germany was lost due to several bad strategic decisions, not the least resulted in the lose of vital natural resources. Nevertheless, the German war machine was more than a match for the entire combined weight of the allies powers. In a historical context, Nazism took Germany from utter ruin to the top of the world in several years. A point in your posts touched upon the collaboration of Zionists with Nazis. Here is an excerpt from an excellent book by a Jewish "holocaust" survivor titled the Hidden History of Zionism:



    Collaborating with the Nazis

    This strategy of enlisting Europe’s virulent Jew-haters, and of aligning with the most vicious movements and regimes as financial and military patrons of a Zionist colony in Palestine, did not exclude the Nazis. The Zionist Federation of Germany sent a memorandum of support to the Nazi Party on June 21, 1933. In it the Federation noted: ... a rebirth of national life such as is occurring in German life ... must also take place in the xxxish national group. On the foundation of the new [Nazi] state which has established the principle of race, we wish so to fit our community into the total structure so that for us, too, in the sphere assigned to us, fruitful activity for the Fatherland is possible ... [81] Far from repudiating this policy, the World Zionist Organization Congress in 1933 defeated a resolution calling for action against Hitler by a vote of 240 to 43. During this very Congress, Hitler announced a trade agreement with the WZO’s Anglo-Palestine Bank, breaking, thereby, the xxxish boycott of the Nazi regime at a time when the German economy was extremely vulnerable. It was the height of the Depression and people were wheeling barrels full of worthless German Marks. The World Zionist Organization broke the xxxish boycott and became the principal distributor of Nazi goods throughout the Middle East and Northern Europe. They established the Ha’avara, which was a bank in Palestine designed to receive monies from the German-xxxish bourgeoisie, with which sums Nazi goods were purchased in very substantial quantity.

    Embracing the S.S.

    Consequently, the Zionists brought Baron Von Mildenstein of the S.S. Security Service to Palestine for a six-month visit in support of Zionism. This visit led to a twelve-part report by Joseph Goebbels, Hitler’s Minister of Propaganda, in Der Angriff (The Assault) in 1934 praising Zionism. Goebbels ordered a medallion struck with the Swastika on one side, and on the other, the Zionist Star of David. In May 1935, Reinhardt Heydrich, the chief of the S.S. Security Service, wrote an article in which he separated xxxs into "two categories." The xxxs he favored were the Zionists: "Our good wishes together with our official good will go with them."[82] In 1937, the Labor "socialist" Zionist militia, the Haganah (founded by Jabotinsky) sent an agent (Feivel Polkes) to Berlin offering to spy for the S.S. Security Service in exchange for the release of xxxish wealth for Zionist colonization. Adolf Eichmann was invited to Palestine as the guest of the Haganah.

    Feivel Polkes informed Eichmann:

    xxxish nationalist circles were very pleased with the radical German policy, since the strength of the xxxish population in Palestine would be so far increased thereby that in the foreseeable future the xxxs could reckon upon numerical superiority over the Arabs. [83] The list of acts of Zionist collaboration with the Nazis goes on and on. What can account for this incredible willingness of Zionist leaders to betray the xxxs of Europe? The entire rationale for the state of Israel offered by its apologists has been that it was intended to be the refuge of xxxs facing persecution. The Zionists, to the contrary, saw any effort to rescue Europe’s xxxs not as the fulfilment of their political purpose but as a threat to their entire movement. If Europe’s xxxs were saved, they would wish to go elsewhere and the rescue operation would have nothing to do with the Zionist project of conquering Palestine.


    Sacrificing Europe’s xxxs

    The correlative to the acts of collaboration with the Nazis throughout the 1930’s was that when attempts to change the immigration laws of the United States and Western Europe were contemplated in order to provide token refuge for persecuted xxxs of Europe, it was the Zionists who actively organized to stop these efforts. Ben Gurion informed a meeting of Labor Zionists in Great Britain in 1938: "If I knew that it would be possible to save all the children in Germany by bringing them over to England and only half of them by transporting them to Eretz Israel, then I opt for the second alternative." [84] This obsession with colonizing Palestine and overwhelming the Arabs led the Zionist movement to oppose any rescue of the xxxs facing extermination, because the ability to deflect select manpower to Palestine would be impeded. From 1933 to 1935, the WZO turned down two-thirds of all the German xxxs who applied for immigration certificates.

    Berel Katznelson, editor of the Labor Zionist Davar, described the "cruel criteria of Zionism": German xxxs were too old to bear children in Palestine, lacked trades for building a Zionist colony, didn’t speak Hebrew and weren’t Zionists. In place of these xxxs facing extermination the WZO brought to Palestine 6,000 trained young Zionists from the United States, Britain and other safe countries. Worse than this, the WZO not merely failed to seek any alternative for the xxxs facing the Holocaust, the Zionist leadership opposed belligerently all efforts to find refuge for fleeing xxxs. As late as 1943, while the xxxs of Europe were being exterminated in their millions, the U.S. Congress proposed to set up a commission to "study" the problem. Rabbi Stephen Wise, who was the principal American spokesperson for Zionism, came to Washington to testify against the rescue bill because it would divert attention from the colonization of Palestine.

    This is the same Rabbi Wise who, in 1938, in his capacity as leader of the American xxxish Congress, wrote a letter in which he opposed any change in U.S. immigration laws which would enable xxxs to find refuge. He stated: It may interest you to know that some weeks ago the representatives of all the leading xxxish organizations met in conference ... It was decided that no xxxish organization would, at this time, sponsor a bill which would in any way alter the immigration laws. [85]

    Source: http://www.marxists.de/middleast/schoenman/

    Leave a comment:


  • Sip
    replied
    Re: Happy Birthday Ara Baliozian!

    Originally posted by axel View Post
    It seems everyone in this (heated) debate is quite familiar with nazism, fascism, zionism...
    I am probably one of those that is least familiar with those terms. My main trouble is trying to understand the underlying logic of when and how Armenian "nationalism" (at least accroding to several vocal self-appointed representatives of the group that tend to show up around here) has found its ideologies "inline" with Nazism and even worse, why the need to glorify Hitler?

    My only explanation thus far is that it seems like the hatred of Turk has been shifting to the ever-present hatred of Jew and since Hitler has always been the symbolic anti-jew, then in the minds of those "nationalists" it only makes sense to start to embrace Nazism as the model for Armenian Nationalism ... ? I do understand the hatred of [sizse=2]j[/size]ew though as it is much more prevelant among the araba-hyes than the sovietized Armenia-hyes.

    Leave a comment:


  • jgk3
    replied
    Re: Happy Birthday Ara Baliozian!

    Originally posted by TomServo View Post
    Baliozian's Birthday Bash = 2007 thread of the year!
    totally agree!

    I like it though, I like how everyone contributes/fights in their own way without really achieving consensus, but still leaving their mark.

    Leave a comment:


  • axel
    Guest replied
    Re: Happy Birthday Ara Baliozian!

    It seems everyone in this (heated) debate is quite familiar with nazism, fascism, zionism... some having expressed sympathies with the former, others with the latter (Ara). So it would be enlightening to have your respective takes (including Ara's) on the following:

    Originally posted by Adolf Hitler
    The xxxish domination in the State seems now so fully assured that not only can he now afford to call himself a xxx once again, but he even acknowledges freely and openly what his ideas are on racial and political questions. A section of the xxxs avows itself quite openly as an alien people, but even here there is another falsehood. When the Zionists try to make the rest of the world believe that the new national consciousness of the xxxs will be satisfied by the establishment of a xxxish State in Palestine, the xxxs thereby adopt another means to dupe the simple-minded Gentile. They have not the slightest intention of building up a xxxish State in Palestine so as to live in it. What they really are aiming at is to establish a central organization for their international swindling and cheating. As a sovereign State, this cannot be controlled by any of the other States. Therefore it can serve as a refuge for swindlers who have been found out and at the same time a high-school for the training of other swindlers.
    Source: http://www.greatwar.nl/books/meinkampf/meinkampf.pdf

    Now an excerpt from Roger Garaudy's "Founding Myths of Israeli Politics" a book which is banned in France (in accordance with freedom of speech laws) made up of selected quotes mainly out of xxxish sources:

    In a memorandum of June 21st 1933 to the Nazi party, the "Zionist Federation of Germany" expressed itself as follows :
    "In the foundation of the new State, which has proclaimed the race principle, we wish to adapt our community to these new structures... Our recognition of the xxxish nationality allows us to establish clear and sincere relations with the German people and its national and racial realities. Precisely because we do not want to underestimate these fundamental principles, because we too are against mixed marriages and for the maintaining of the purity of the xxxish group...The xxxs who are conscious of their identity and in whose name we speak, can find a place within the structure of the German State, for they are free of the resentment that the assimilated xxxs must feel;...we believe in the possibility of loyal relations between those xxxs conscious of their community and the German State.

    To attain its practical objectives, Zionism hopes it will be able to collaborate with a government that is fundamentally hostile to the xxxs....The realization of Zionism is impeded only by the resentment of xxxs from without against the present German orientation The propaganda in favor of Zionism currently aimed against Germany is essentially non-Zionist... "


    Source : Lucy Dawidovitch, "A Holocaust reader", p. 155.

    The memorandum added that "should the Germans accept the cooperation of the Zionists, these would try to dissuade xxxs abroad from supporting the anti-German boycott."

    Source : Lucy Dawidovitch : "The war against xxxs (1933-1945)" Penguin books. 1977. p.231-232

    The Hitlerian leaders were well-disposed towards the Zionists, whose exclusive aim was to create a state in Palestine, thus favoring their own designs to get rid of the xxxs. Alfred Rosenberg, the chief Nazi theoretician, wrote :
    "Zionism must be vigorously backed so that a yearly contingent of German xxxs shall be transported to Palestine."

    Source : A. Rosenberg : "Die Spur des juden im Wandel der Zeiten". Munich 1937. p.153.

    Reinhardt Heydrich, who was later to become "Protector" of Czechoslovakia, wrote in Das Schwarze Korps, the official organ of the S.S. in 1935, when he was head of the S.S. security. In an article entitled "The invisible enemy", he made a distinction between two kinds of xxxs :

    "We must separate the xxxs into two categories, the Zionists and the partisans of assimilation. The Zionists profess a strictly racial concept and, through emigration to Palestine, they help to build their own xxxish State...our good wishes and our official goodwill go with them."


    Source : Hohne. "Order of the Death's Head", p.333.

    "The German Betar received a new name: Herzlia. The activities of the movement in Germany had to obtain, of course, the approval of the Gestapo; in fact, Herzlia acted under the protection of the Gestapo. One day, a group of SS attacked a Betar summer camp. The head of the movement then complained to the Gestapo and, a few days later, the secret police declared that the SS in question had been punished. The Gestapo asked the Betar what compensation would seem most adequate. The movement asked that the recent prohibition that had struck them, forbidding them to wear brown shirts, be lifted; their request was granted."

    Source : Ben-Yeruham, "Le livre de Betar" T.II, p. 350.

    A circular issued by the Wilhelmstrasse indicated :
    "The goals that this category of xxxs have set themselves (those xxxs who oppose assimilation and favor a regrouping of their co-religionaries within a nation), with the Zionists in the front rank,are those least distant from the goals pursued in reality by Germany's policy towards the xxxs."

    Source : Circular letter by Bulow-Schwante to all the Reich diplomatic
    missions. #83. February 28,1934.

    "There is no reason," wrote Bulow-Schwante to the Ministry of the Interior,"to impede by administrative measures the Zionist activity in Germany ; for Zionism is not in conflict with the National-Socialist program, whose object is to make the xxxs leave Germany progressively."

    Source : Letter number ZU 83-21. 28/8, April 13, 1935.

    These directives confirmed previous measures and were applied scrupulously. By virtue of the privileged status of Zionism in Germany, the Bavarian Gestapo addressed the following circular to the police on January 28,1935: "By reason of their activity orientated towards emigration to Palestine, the members of the Zionist organization must not be treated with the harshness needed in dealing with the members of German xxxish (assimilationist) organizations."

    Source : Kurt Grossmann : "Sionistes et non sionistes sous la loi nazie dans les années 30" Yearbook.Vol.VI, p.310.

    "The Zionist organization of German xxxs had a legal existence until 1938, five years after the advent of Hitler....

    The "Judaiche Rundschau" (the German Zionist newspaper) came out until 1938."

    Source : Leibowitz : "Israel et Judaisme". Ed. Desclée de Brouwer, 1993. p.116.

    In exchange for their official recognition as sole representatives of the xxxish community, the Zionist leaders offered to break the boycott which the world anti-Fascists were trying to organize.

    Economic collaboration began in 1933 : two companies were created : the "Haavara Company" at Tel Aviv and the "Paltreu", in Berlin.


    The mechanism of the operation was the following : a xxx wanting to emigrate would deposit a minimum of 1,000 pounds sterling at the Wasserman Bank in Berlin or in the Warburg bank in Hamburg. With this sum, xxxish exporters could buy German goods for Palestine, and pay the corresponding amount in Palestinian pounds into the Haavara account at the Anglo-Palestine Bank at Tel Aviv. When the immigrant arrived in Palestine, he received the equivalent of the sum he had deposited in Germany.

    [b]Several future Israeli prime ministers took part in the "haavara" undertaking, including Ben Gurion, Moshe Sharret (who was then called Moshe Shertok), Golda Meir (who supported it from New York), and Levi Eshkol, who was its representative in Berlin.[:b]

    Source: "Ben Gourion et Shertok, dans Black": L'accord de la "havaara", p.294. Quoted by Tom Segev in "Le septieme million", (Ed. Liana Levi. French translation. 1993, p. 30 and 595).

    The operation was advantageous for both parties : the Nazis thus succeeded in breaking the blockade (the Zionists managed to sell German merchandise even in Britain); whereas the Zionists were able to operate the "selective" immigration they desired : only millionaires were able to emigrate, their capital providing the funds needed to develop Zionist colonization in Palestine. In accordance with the goals of Zionism, it was more important to save xxxish capital from Nazi Germany that would permit the development of their undertaking, than to save the lives of poor xxxs, unable to work or fight, who would have been a burden.

    This policy of collaboration lasted until 1941, in other words eight years after Hitler's rise to power. Eichmann liaisoned with Kastner. The Eichmann trial revealed to some extent the mechanism of this connivance, of these "exchanges" between Zionist xxxs "useful" to the creation of a xxxish State (wealthy personalities, technicians and youngsters who could serve to reinforce an army, etc.). with a mass of xxxs who, being less favored, were left in Hitler's clutches.


    Haven't brought Anthony Sutton's thesis in the picture yet to avoid complicating things further. It is already quite confusing, to say the least.

    Leave a comment:


  • crusader1492
    replied
    Re: more on bullies

    Originally posted by arabaliozian View Post
    Toothless Dogs And Prophetic Goats
    ######################################
    Whenever I am insulted anonymously or from a safe distance, I think of the old Armenian saying: “A toothless dog always barks from a distance.”
    *
    ...and what would you expect one to do - fly up to Canada and pull a "Ogun Samast" (Turkish national hero) on a senior citizen? A senior citizen with and unhealthy mind, none-the-less?

    No Ara, that would be cruel.
    Last edited by crusader1492; 01-20-2008, 11:43 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • arabaliozian
    replied
    Re: Happy Birthday Ara Baliozian!

    Gypsies, Kurds, and Armenians
    ************************************************** ***
    If you ever read a book on gypsies and Kurds you may be surprised to learn that (a) they have been a source of interest, even fascination, to many odar scholars, and (b) they brag about the very same things that we do (long history, resistance to foreign tyrants, adherence to ethos and identity, traditions, music, resourcefulness, adaptability, instinct for survival, and so on). As for their corrupt or incompetent leadership and total absence of solidarity: these things are seldom or never mentioned by them only by outside observers.

    The question that we must ask here is: Why do perennial losers feel the need to brag?

    To make a good impression, of course; to compensate; to give a negative reality a positive spin; to justify themselves in the eyes of the world…. All these are more or less harmless reasons. The danger is elsewhere, and more precisely in what remains unspoken but clearly implied: There is nothing wrong with us. Why fix what ain’t broken?

    Why mess around with perfection? Let’s count our blessings – even if on closer inspection they may turn out to have been curses. As for our victims: they are an irrefutable proof of the fact that the world is a rotten place and everyone in it (except us, of course) is either a murderer or a hypocrite with a forked tongue.

    Leave a comment:


  • arabaliozian
    replied
    more on bullies

    Toothless Dogs And Prophetic Goats
    ######################################
    Whenever I am insulted anonymously or from a safe distance, I think of the old Armenian saying: “A toothless dog always barks from a distance.”
    *
    There is more common sense in our people than in the wisdom of our bishops. Hence the saying, “If there were wisdom in beards, goats would be prophets,” and “Better a wise delinquent than a foolish saint.” . .
    *
    Willed ignorance is the kind of ignorance that is freely chosen because it is thought to be to one’s advantage. People who know or ought to know better but pretend otherwise are like the jackass that “travels to the Holy City forty times but it still comes back a jackass.”
    *
    You may think of reading and writing as harmless activities. Medieval xxxish scribes who copied the Holy Scriptures knew better. “A single misplaced word or even letter," they said, “may mean the destruction of the world.” The bloodthirsty disposition of men is such, however, that even when copyists do a perfect job the result may be war and massacre. Millions of people have died because someone at the top of the food chain did not understand what he was reading, or he understood but pretended not to. What could be more clearly and unequivocally stated than “Thou shalt not kill”? And yet, at one time or another theologians have justified and legitimized torture, war, and massacre in the name of the Almighty.
    *
    At the source of all our divisions and misfortunes search for the “fool who threw a stone into a well and forty wise men could not haul it out.”
    *
    Hagop Baronian: “Do you want to dine and wine to your heart’s content every day? Be a bishop.”
    *
    Rick Bayan on bosses: “The alpha male in a tribe of baboons.”
    *
    Neshan Beshigtashlian: “Priests wear black cassocks because they are in perpetual mourning, and what they mourn is the death of the human being within.”

    Leave a comment:


  • arabaliozian
    replied
    Re: Happy Birthday Ara Baliozian!

    critics i welcome.
    fascist bullies...that's different.

    Leave a comment:


  • arabaliozian
    replied
    Re: Happy Birthday Ara Baliozian!

    Sunday, January 20, 2008
    ***********************************************
    CROCODILES
    *********************************
    Readers who disagree with me and engage in verbal abuse are not my enemies. They are enemies of free speech, and enemies of free speech are fascist bullies who have no place in civilized discourse for the simple reason that they are against discourse.
    I did not create free speech. Free speech has been around for a long time. So have been its opponents and victims, of course. Greeks, who 2500 years again disagreed with Socrates, also rejected the concept of free speech and dialogue by silencing him permanently. We have come a long way since then. Heidegger, one of the most influential philosophers of the 20th century, was also a Nazi, and as a Nazi he deserved the hangman’s noose. But he was left alone, probably because Americans, like Armenians, don’t think highly of philosophers because they favor philomorons, like Senator McCarthy, Kennedy’s “best and brightest” of Vietnam fame, Bush and his gang of neo-cons, and televangelists and their “moral majority.” As for Russians, our “Big Brothers”: they are worse. My guess is, Russians have silenced, exiled, and exterminated more intellectuals (including our own) than all other nations combined. Chekhov was right when he predicted that 20th-century Russia would be at the mercy of “crocodiles,” that, unlike their jungle counterparts would engage in cannibalism.
    #

    Leave a comment:


  • Yedtarts
    replied
    Re: Happy Birthday Ara Baliozian!



    Meet the famous one




    Leave a comment:

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