Happy Birthday Ara Baliozian!

[Armenian]

Re: Happy Birthday Ara Baliozian!

"When two fools agree, they think they have achieved wisdom."

Are you talking about you and your efendi Zourna?

[arabaliozian]

Re: Happy Birthday Ara Baliozian!

ARMENIAN SAYINGS
******************************
A dead jackass is not afraid of the lion.
*
Sorrows are easier to survive than hunger.
*
Honey will attract flies even from Baghdad.
*
To a poor orphan, more bread, less advice.
*
Life is a battle and what counts is not the first defeat
but the final victory.
*
He is wise indeed whose learning begins in the cradle
and ends in the grave.
*
Some books make better friends
than the best of friends.

[arabaliozian]

Re: Happy Birthday Ara Baliozian!

"When two fools agree, they think they have achieved wisdom."

[jgk3]

Re: Happy Birthday Ara Baliozian!

Ara got the most interesting and roundy happy birthday thread yet.

[Armenian]

Re: Happy Birthday Ara Baliozian!

What is amusing is how you claim Armenian's political analysis is flawed when in fact all you do is post articles with no depth,...

Virgil, dude, don't worry... this character is on heavy medication and he is obsessed by me He probably just ran out of his pills

[Virgil]

Re: Happy Birthday Ara Baliozian!

It is amusing to hear you say the above, because each time I read what you seem to consider as "an educated geopolitical or historical analysis," a funny Armenian expression that I once heard comes to the mind: Goshgagari kaghakaganoutioun!
Yes. it is amusing when a (politically) uneducated wannabe amateur mistakes his provincial self-indulgent views for reality...another common point with jurks???

What is amusing is how you claim Armenian's political analysis is flawed when in fact all you do is post articles with no depth, I respect your decision, certainly, not everyone has the time nor the strength to give a full detailed assesment of geopolitical events because they are most of the time very long and contain a very intricate chain of implications. At least if you are going to call a man out have the common courtesy to explain why you have called him out. Are you implying then Armenia should not align themselves with Russia? Are you implying that we should open our borders with Turkey and Azerbaijan? What is your agenda and opinion regarding Armenian's political analysis? Please, the podium is yours. I personally agree with Armenian, in the short term we can xxxxx ourselves to the west, but the reality is that it is in our interests to pick the Russian state over others due to historical anticidents that closely aligns our interests, essentially, a weak Turkey means a strong Russia, and a strong Russia means a stable Armenia that can develop without having fear of the Turkish saber since Russian interests will not permit Armenia from falling into the hands of, not only, Turkey, but Iran and Azerbaijan.

[Siamanto]

Re: Happy Birthday Ara Baliozian!

Guenter Grass...: “History is a clogged toilet. We flush and flush, but the
s hit keeps rising.”

Why is it that we Armenians are incapable of producing such a sentence?

A bon entendeur salut!

How about "shad mi kharner, kak@ g'elleh???"

Of course, one may argue that it was not "produced by an Armenian," but that is a "technical" detail and another discussion.

[Siamanto]

Re: Happy Birthday Ara Baliozian!

The level of his understanding of Armenian history and geopolitics in general is that of an adolescent. Quote any statement of his regarding history and/or politics and I will tear it apart word for word.

It is amusing to hear you say the above, because each time I read what you seem to consider as "an educated geopolitical or historical analysis," a funny Armenian expression that I once heard comes to the mind: Goshgagari kaghakaganoutioun!
Yes. it is amusing when a (politically) uneducated wannabe amateur mistakes his provincial self-indulgent views for reality...another common point with jurks???

[jgk3]

Re: Happy Birthday Ara Baliozian!

Sunday, December 23, 2007
**********************************************
HUMBUG
*****************
One of my gentle and anonymous readers, whose spelling leaves something to be desired, takes me to task for my ignorance of our history. “Armenian history,” he reminds me, “is an extremely complex topic,” and since I obviously do not know as much as he does, I should shut up about it. I am more than willing to concede that I don’t know all there is to know on the subject. But then who does, beside the Good Lord Himself, who so far has consistently refused to publish His version. As far as I know, no human being has ever dared to claim that after a lifetime of study he is now prepared to assert that he knows all there is to know about Armenian or any other history.
*
When after a lifetime of study Toynbee published his monumental ten-volume STUDY OF HISTORY, he was attacked and sometimes even verbally abused by an international array of historians who questioned the accuracy of his facts and the reliability of his conclusions. Dutch historians criticized him for his ignorance of Dutch history; xxxish historians tore him to shreds because he had dared to call xxxs “fossils”; English historians dismissed him as a megalomaniacal mystic and charlatan; and Soviet historians treated him as a heretic because he did not share their faith in Marxism. It would be no exaggeration to say that both Spengler and Toynbee, the two greatest historians of the 20th century, have more critics than fans among their fellow historians.
*
Even when they deal in facts and nothing but facts, nationalist or ideologically committed historians lie because they select only those facts that support their particular thesis, and since the number of facts, documents, and eyewitness accounts is nearly infinite, they can do this without much difficulty.
*
Who takes nationalist historians seriously? Only themselves, their dupes, and the power structure within which they operate.
*
What matters about history is not how much we know or how many facts, documents, and eyewitness accounts we have at our disposal, but what have we learned from it. What have our nationalist or patriotic historians learned from our past? The very same thing that Turkish historians have learned: namely, to paint themselves all white and their adversaries all black.
*
History does not have to be the propaganda of the victor or the consolation of the loser. Our sympathies may be with the losers but that does not make their version of events more honest, objective, and impartial.
*
The aim of nationalist historians is not to learn but to teach. But teaching that is not preceded by learning is at best propaganda and at worst conditioning or brainwashing. Politics and history don’t mix. To allow politics or ideology to contaminate the study of history amounts to prostituting the past.
*
A final note on our revolutionaries: history judges us not by our intentions (remember the old adage: “The road to hell is paved with good intentions”) but our actions; and actions have consequences. It follows, we should judge our revolutionaries not by their intentions but by the tragic consequences of their actions.
#

hmmm... I needed a good dose of that view I think. And I haven't read Toynbee, I think I should look into him.

[Virgil]

Re: Happy Birthday Ara Baliozian!

If you don't understand what he writes than you are simply a fool. Ara types are very easy to decipher: self-hate, massive ego and decades long disgruntlement... And you as a "free speech" crusader should understand that it applies for us as well. So why don't you defend 'my' free speech?

Exactly, any entity that worships Ara Baliozian should look at the man, not his work. For 72 years he has amounted to nothing and today when many other great writers are embraced by the Armenian people, he has been reduced to a has been and a hack. There is no "shadow group", no "hidden agenda", Ara Baliozian can thank himself for being reduced to such lowly depths. Anyone that promotes the idea of "Christian Turks" and a "other side" to the nationalistic drive against the Ottoman Empire should be spit on. Again, the reality is that it is individuals like Ara that during the Empire were sitting down having Turkish coffee, in a Turkish coffee house, talking about the "splendor" of the Ottoman Empire when Turks were rounding up Armenians, tieing them to trees, and peeling their skin for entertainment. Instead of picking up a gun, they picked up the phallus of the Turkish government and in the process, they were hanged and Turkified. Ara is no different, he is a useless individual that only writes to inflate his own ego or else the man, his work, and his legacy is useless, is plagiarized, and is crap, respectively.

As far as Zourna is concerned, just look at what name the Turkish Christian picked, "Zourna", the Turkish name for a duduk. What more can I write? He is a example of the typical follower of the Ara. And the truth is, like you pointed out, my attacks have nothing to do with "free speech", if anything, it should motivate the "Erudite", to be more direct and get to a point. He has spent 5 years writing to make the reader know exactly what? That their national heroes are lying scum? Losers? Failiures? That their state is a undemocratic state? That it has deficincies? That his people are racist? Ignorant? Prideful? Our heroes had tough choices to make, we can sit here and "debate" about their choices, but the reality is that given the circumstances they found themselves in, I am proud of their accomplishments. As far as the state, this peice of xxxx prick, can thank Levon Ter Petrosian, his beloved "intellectual" for guiding the Armenian state into a century of corroption. And, finally, with regards to accusations of "racism" and "ignorance", I would rather have the most backwards Armenian fighting on his feet then versus having a intellectual pricks like Ara doing absolutly nothing but discussing the merits of the color blue. No, we don't need the "Ara types" nor the "Levon types", we need brave leaders, illeterate, ignorant, but brave. These "metsha metk" men are only good for themselves or else asking them to do anything other then inflating their own egos would only met with resistence, they will start quoting shakesphere when barbarians are at the gate, they still quote shapesphere when the barbarians have broken the gate, and they will still quote shakesphere when the barbarians have successful sacked the castle.

dear Zourna and fellow natives:

it is an unfortunate fact that has many precedents in history that you cannot teach fundamental human rights to fascists.

i read somewhere recently that we are all born fascists but some of us learn to respect and accept democratic principles and ideals. / ara

Ara, as much as I would be honored to be called a "fascist" by a demagog such as yourself, the reality is that you are a useless, egotistical, and arrogrant prick that has spent the last remaining years of his life piggy backing on the ideas of intellectual giants (Also known as a plagiarism). You have taken any national spirit Armenians have left and convinced them to drop it in order to accept nillism? I don't even know what it is you want Armenians to do, you have no goal or agenda, all you do is spout condradictory statements that indirectly convince Armenians to drop their identity and national spirit. Individuals like you only want to have a podium and that is exactly the problems Armenians face today, you, in all forms, are the reason why Armenians have been reduced to such a pitiful existence. Instead of pulling up your sleeves and doing something progressive for the state, you just vegitate and are now spreading this vegitative state to others.

I accept and adhere to "democratic principles and ideals", conversly, it is you who has resorted to calling individuals "fascists", "ignorant", "illeteriate", "undemocractic", and etc ... again, I will repeat myself, if anyone has to take Ara Baliozian's "advice", it is Ara Baliozian himself. You are just another pitifu demagog that the Armenian people have to deal with, anyone that takes you seriously should look at you, a self-hating, self-loathing, unnationalistic, and certainly, atheist character of the "wise sage" Ara Bailiozian. With the very last point, the man was raised in the house of God, after spending years attaining a education at Mekhitarist College, a Armenian and Christian institution, he turns around and spits on the very same entities that educated him, this man is pathetic. One could argue that if he was such a "world citizen", why did he resort to using the Armenian channels of education to further his own self?

Guenter Grass (contemporary German author and winner of the Nobel Prize): “History is a clogged toilet. We flush and flush, but the
s hit keeps rising.”

Why is it that we Armenians are incapable of producing such a sentence?

We don't need you to quote Guenter Grass, if anything it only highlights my initial point that you are a idiot because while Guenter Grass gave somthing back to the German people, you have given nothing back, but the idea that the individual is greater then the state and that servitude to a national purpose is a sin, reserved to "ignorant" individuals, as you constantly point out. Grass contributed his life work to the peace, i.e. he has put action behind his ideas, you on the other hand, just want a podium, you on the other hand have done nothing but inflate your own ego, and, "wise great sage", you on the other have spent your life doing nothing but analyze the downfall of men like Grass. It is very hypocritical of you to even quote a great activist such as Grass, a former SS officer that turned peace activist, I respect him, I don't respect you, don't tie his work to your worthless existence as a failed writer. The reality is that measuring shear intellect, you would probably be more well read than Grass, I would say infinitly times more educated then he, but the reality is that how ever lacking the eduaction of Grass is, he makes up for it with his strive to push forward his ideals. Conversly, you, the "educated man", has spent his entire life just yapping and debating, instead of putting your "education" behind something progressive and useful the Armenian people, it is demagogs like yourself that have lead the Armenian people nowhere. I for one have stated from the beginning that I am neither a demagog and nor do I claim to be "all knowing", rather, I defend my values, I defend my beliefs, and lastly, I write what I think needs to be written because it is self evident by your comments and individuals, more or less, like you, that no one other then me and individuals like me, will ever truly push forward the Armenian cause and champion Armenian interests. You live under the shadow of men and women like me.