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Attention Surfer

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  • Attention Surfer

    I just finished reading this great article by Hans-Harmann Hoppe, who is from the Austrian school of economics. He is author of the book "Democracy: The God that Failed". The following is perhaps a lengthy, but detailed article on the myths and truths about democracy and how it contradicts economic theory. Due to its sheer length the forum doesn't allow me to reproduce the entire text, so I will only post the point from which begins the main points regarding economics and democracy. I would like for you to read it if you choose to, and comment on it, and maybe then we can get a discussion going on this. The rest of you can read it as well but I doubt you have as much interest in this as do surfer and I. Cheers.
    ---------------

    ..................Businessmen (capitalists) and their employees cannot earn an income unless they produce goods or services which are sold in markets. The buyers' purchases are voluntary. By buying a good or service, the buyers (consumers) demonstrate that they prefer this good or service over the sum of money that they must surrender in order to acquire it. In contrast, politicians, parties, and civil servants produce nothing which is sold in markets. No one buys government 'goods' or 'services'. They are produced, and costs are incurred to produce them, but they are not sold and bought. On the one hand, this implies that it is impossible to determine their value and find out whether or not this value justifies their costs. Because no one buys them, no one actually demonstrates that he considers government goods and services worth their costs, and indeed, whether or not anyone attaches any value to them at all. From the viewpoint of economic theory, it is thus entirely illegitimate to assume, as is always done in national income accounting, that government goods and services are worth what it costs to produce them, and then to simply add this value to that of the 'normal', privately produced (bought and sold) goods and services to arrive at gross domestic (or national) product, for instance. It might as well be assumed that government goods and services are worth nothing, or even that they are not "goods" at all but "bads"; hence, that the cost of politicians and the entire civil service should be subtracted from the total value of privately produced goods and services. Indeed, to assume this would be far more justified. For on the other hand, as to its practical implications, the subsidizing of politicians and civil servants amounts to a subsidy to 'produce' with little or no regard for the well-being of one's alleged consumers, and with much or sole regard instead for the well-being of the 'producers', i.e., the politicians and civil servants. Their salaries remain the same, whether their output satisfies consumers or not. Accordingly, as a result of the expansion of 'public' sector employment, there will be increasing laziness, carelessness, incompeence, disservice, maltreatment, waste, and even destruction – and at the same time ever more arrogance, demagogery, and lies ('we work for the public good').

    After less than one hundred years of democracy and redistribution, the predictable results are in. The 'reserve fund' that was inherited from the past is apparently exhausted. For several decades (since the late 1960s or the early 1970s), real standards of living have stagnated or even fallen in the West. The 'public' debt and the cost of the existing social security and health care system have brought on the prospect of an imminent economic meltdown. At the same time, almost every form of undesirable behavior – unemployment, welfare dependency, negligence, recklessness, uncivility, psychopathy, hedonism and crime – has increased, and social conflict and societal breakdown have risen to dangerous heights. If current trends continue, it is safe to say that the Western welfare state (social democracy) will collapse just as Eastern (Russian-style) socialism collapsed in the late 1980s.

    However, economic collapse does not automatically lead to improvement. Matters can become worse rather than better. What is necessary besides a crisis are ideas – correct ideas – and men capable of understanding and implementing them once the opportunity arises. Ultimately, the course of history is determined by ideas, be they true or false, and by men acting upon and being inspired by true or false ideas. The current mess is also the result of ideas. It is the result of the overwhelming acceptance, by public opinion, of the idea of democracy. As long as this acceptance prevails, a catastrophy will be unavoidable, and there is no hope for improvement even after its arrival. On the other hand, once the idea of democracy is recognized as false and vicious – and ideas can, in principle, be changed almost instantaneously – a catastrophy can be avoided.

    The central task ahead of those wanting to turn the tide and prevent an outright breakdown is the 'delegitimation' of the idea of democracy as the root cause of the present state of progressive 'decivilization'. To this purpose, one should first point out that it is difficult to find many proponents of democracy in the history of political theory. Almost all major thinkers had nothing but contempt for democracy. Even the Founding Fathers of the U.S., nowadays considered the model of a democracy, were strictly opposed to it. Without a single exception, they thought of democracy as nothing but mob-rule. They considered themselves to be members of a 'natural aristocracy', and rather than a democracy they advocated an aristocratic republic. Furthermore, even among the few theoretical defenders of democracy such as Rousseau, for instance, it is almost impossible to find anyone advocating democracy for anything but extremely small communities (villages or towns). Indeed, in small communities where everyone knows everyone else personally most people cannot but acknowledge that the position of the 'haves' is typically based on their superior personal achievement just as the position of the 'have-nots' finds its typical explanation in their personal deficiencies and inferiority. Under these circumstances, it is far more difficult to get away with trying to loot other people and their personal property to one's advantage. In distinct contrast, in large territories encompassing millions or even hundreds of millions of people, where the potential looters do not know their victims, and vice versa, the human desire to enrich oneself at another's expense is subject to little or no restraints.

    More importantly, it must be made clear again that the idea of democracy is immoral as well as uneconomical. As for the moral status of majority rule, it must be pointed out that it allows for A and B to band together to rip off C, C and A in turn joining to rip off B, and then B and C conspiring against A, etc..This is not justice but a moral outrage, and rather than treating democracy and democrats with respect, they should be treated with open contempt and ridiculed as moral frauds. On the other hand, as for the economic quality of democracy, it must be stressed relentlessly that it is not democracy but private property, production, and voluntary exchange that are the ultimate sources of human civilization and prosperity. In particular, contrary to widespread myths, it needs to be emphasized that the lack of democracy had essentially nothing to do with the bankruptcy of Russian-style socialism. It was not the selection principle for politicians that constituted socialism's problem. It was politics and political decision-making as such. Instead of each private producer deciding independently what to do with particular resources, as under a regime of private property and contractualism, with fully or partially socialized factors of production each decision requires someone else's permission. It is irrelevant to the producer how those giving permission are chosen. What matters to him is that permission must be sought at all. As long as this is the case, the incentive of producers to produce is reduced and impoverishment will result. Private property is as incompatible with democracy, then, as with any other form of political rule. Rather than democracy, justice as well as economic efficiency require a pure and unrestricted private property society – an 'anarchy of production' – in which no one rules anybody, and all producers' relations are voluntary, and thus mutually beneficial.

    Lastly, as for strategic considerations, in order to approach the goal of a non-exploitative social order, i.e., a private property anarchy, the idea of majoritarianism should be turned against democratic rule itself. Under any form of governmental rule, including a democracy, the 'ruling class' (politicians and civil servants) makes up only a small proportion of the total population. While it is possible that one hundred parasites may lead a comfortable life on the products of one thousand hosts, one thousand parasites cannot live off of one hundred hosts. Based on the recognition of this fact, it would appear possible to persuade a majority of the voters that it is adding insult to injury to let those living off of other peoples' taxes have a say in how high these taxes are, and to thus decide, democratically, to take the right to vote away from all government employees and everyone who receives government benefits, whether they are welfare recipients or government contractors. In addition, in conjunction with this strategy it is necessary to recognize the overwhelming importance of secession and secessionist movements. If majority decisions are 'right', then the largest of all possible majorities, a world majority and a democratic world government, must be considered ultimately 'right' with the consequences predicted at the outset of this article. In contrast, secession always involves the breaking away of smaller from larger populations. It is thus a vote against the principle of democracy and majoritarianism. The further the process of secession proceeds – to the level of small regions, cities, city districts, towns, villages, and ultimately individual households and voluntary associations of private households and firms – the more difficult it will become to maintain the current level of redistributive policies. At the same time, the smaller the territorial units, the more likely it will be that a few individuals, based on the popular recognition of their economic independence, outstanding professional achievement, morally impeccable personal life, superior judgement, courage, and taste, will rise to the rank of natural, voluntarily acknowledged elites and lend legitimacy to the idea of a natural order of competing (non-monopolistic) and freely (voluntarily) financed peacekeepers, judges, and overlapping jurisdictions as exists even now in the arena of international trade and travel – a pure private law society – as the answer to democracy and any other form of political (coercive) rule.
    Achkerov kute.

  • #2
    do you honestly expect anyone to read that?

    Comment


    • #3
      Yes, why, are your mental capacities not equipped to handle long sentence paragraphs and big words?
      Achkerov kute.

      Comment


      • #4
        oh they are . i just dont feel like dedicating my time to reading something pretty long that you posted. judging from your previous posts its bound to dissapoint me.

        Comment


        • #5
          How would you know if you haven't read it?

          Talk about residing with fallacious logic....

          You approach this with preconceived views, and thus already before even reading something and weighing it, you already come to a conclusion.

          Not too bright, don't you think? Imagine if people in science revolved around with such behavior.
          Achkerov kute.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Anonymouse Yes, why, are your mental capacities not equipped to handle long sentence paragraphs and big words?
            lol, were you not the one that wouldn't read a joke in the humour section because it was too long? always using double standards eh?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Baron Dants lol, were you not the one that wouldn't read a joke in the humour section because it was too long? always using double standards eh?
              That was a joke because of what the author said "I know its too long". I was merely being sarcastic. Anyway I read the joke it was mildly entertaining.
              Achkerov kute.

              Comment


              • #8
                Anon. I would love to post my response on this article as soon as I get the chance to read this. It is late at night, and I have pressing responsibilities.

                I appreciate you finding this article, I seriously think it is going to interest me on my day off tomorrow. (today is monday, tomorrow tuesday...day off=veterans day)

                Comment


                • #9
                  that article makes me wanna be an econ major!

                  good stuff...
                  can't wait for surfer's "defense" lol

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    okay i read it. it makes some pretty good points. It is evident that the founding fathers had a good idea to start with though. look at the first 8 years of the American republic, i think things worked out just fine and it was kept to pure unrestricted government without the dependance on key industries and so on where each decision that washington or hamilton or jefferson made was a result of fair and unbiased reasoning, not affected by this or that company or this or that demographic's opinion or the effect that the decision will have on the next election. That is why democracy doesnt work because the damn politicians are too concerned about getting reelected to do their jobs right. Democracy is fine if it doesnt develop party divisions and doesnt slowly morph into a socialist state. Every aspect of life is slowly being subsidized. If there was not a party system than i think all of democracies problems would be solved. but the party system evolves naturally and there is no practical way to prevent it. i think he makes some good points but he doesnt try to look at the problems that could result from his "anarchy of production". or maybe that is because you are giving us excerpts.

                    Comment

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