Saddam's capture

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by Arvestaked As much as I hate politics, especially our government, I never believe rumors about our governments activity. Chances are it's pure, 100%, all-natural bullsh!t.

Well, never discount anything either. I never say this is hard fact, I simply said it was a rumor, not stating whether I subscribe to it or not, but the timing of this is very fishy, since Bush was getting bad ratings, casualties mounting in Iraq, a dying dollar and economy, and now he needed a boost. I wouldn't be surprised if Osama is "captured" in the next year to come prior to the elections.

On a further note, I would question everything that comes out of governments mouth, be it ours or theirs. This isn't "my" government since I didn't elect nor did I choose to be in it. I was simply born into it, sort of like servitude, like an coloni, or slaves, in the late stages of the Roman empire, forced to pay the tax, and go to the booths on the holiday of fools known as election day to give myself the illusion that for one day, I actually have some power.

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by surferarmo Awwww the dictatorial genocidal leader was removed from power. We are really sorry Anon.

And I watched the news for hours after that announcment of his capture. I am celebrating now. Good bye.

"Dictatorial genocidal leader", it would almost appear as if you are describing Bush. Get this, General Tommy Franks said that if there was another "terrorist attack" on the scale carried out against the WTC towers, we will go into martial law, lose all civil liberties, the Constitution suspended. Gee that sounds really awesome that we have to pay a price for a terrorist attack, what is initially to blame is the behavior of this government for creating these terrorists, whether directly or indirectly.

But enjoy your temporary short lived celebration. The empire has an expiration date.

[patlajan]

Originally posted by Anonymouse Now the eggplant decides to pull a surfer and go for a low blow since he can't stand critical minds questioning. In the haze of mass mindedness throughout history, it has always been the individual that will suffer criticism from the masses, and thus the individual always has more to lose by being labeled with smear terms, than the mob has. Thus you aligning yourself with the mob, like surfer, and choosing to abide and agree with what is 'comfortable' to believe, essentially what the majority believe, and not question it, is essentially what people like Bush rely on.

To correct you, his "weapons" are both Russian and U.S. since both countries aided. You forget that it was Russia supporting Iran and the U.S. supporting Iraq. I don't know how ignorant you are on following history, but it was the U.S. that created Saddam, much like the U.S. created bin Laden and Al Qaeda, and days prior to 911 Bush Sr. met with Osama bin Ladens brother, but no one ever mentions these facts, and are simply 'heresy'.

You going into name calling and posting a picture of tissue, only confirms to me in my mind that you are incapable of assessing this on your own, and rely on the nice media outlets to do your thinking for you. It shows me a weak man, much like surfer, that when in the face of things contrary to what you have been spoon fed, you react in discontent and confusion, attacking those who dare to question your thought process, and now you will respond with some other childish xxxx about "no anon youre just [insert proper insult here]".

I guess, you have never thought as individual to know why I question things. Since you are a victim of mass-mindedness, whatever answer I give will be anathema for you.

Thus to disagree with you is to be ignorant. And all critisims of you are "to think like the crowd". For you are THE INDIVIDUAL and are only persecuted because of your unique knowledge no matter what the situation. That's some cute circular logic you got going there. The more people disagree with you the more right you become in your mind. A foolproof strategy.

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by patlajan Thus to disagree with you is to be ignorant. And all critisims of you are "to think like the crowd". For you are THE INDIVIDUAL and are only persecuted because of your unique knowledge no matter what the situation. That's some cute circular logic you got going there. The more people disagree with you the more right you become in your mind. A foolproof strategy.

Hardly what I was saying. I was merely commenting on your lack of critical thinking and accepting things on face value.

It was you who initially attacked me, for disagreeing with you, not the other way around.

*hats off*

[ckBejug]

Originally posted by Anonymouse Well, never discount anything either. I never say this is hard fact, I simply said it was a rumor, not stating whether I subscribe to it or not, but the timing of this is very fishy, since Bush was getting bad ratings, casualties mounting in Iraq, a dying dollar and economy, and now he needed a boost. I wouldn't be surprised if Osama is "captured" in the next year to come prior to the elections.

Yes, yes, yes. Finally someone who gets it. So, the coalition forces captured Saddam. Disastrous news for the Democratic Party, as it probably means that Bush will trumpet this as a huge victory, despite the fact that it took nine months and his administration still hasn't managed to find Osama bin Laden (which they will probably miraculously do several days before the election, in order to ensure victory... bin Laden is probably already interned in Guantanamo right now).

Sadly, the American people will probably celebrate this, rather than humbly accept it and urge the current administration to speed their exit from Iraq. Because if America has an imperative to rebuild Iraq, to show the world that it is a responsible nation after all, then the Halliburton scandals and continued fighting are evidence that we're doing a poor job of it. Or have you guys not heard what's going on with the rebuild Iraq crew? Halliburton... That would be the company our heart-attack prone VP Cheney used to be the PRESIDENT of..... has been accused of overcharging the US government for gas and other expenses related to the whole rebuild Iraq campaign.

What I don't understand is how we (and by WE I mean the American people) can all see/hear about all these shady dealings associated with Bush and the Republican party and just let it be. It will be very sad sad if Bush gets re-elected in November, much as I don't like this whole politics business, I will make sure to vote so Bush wont be back in office after the next elections....

[Anonymouse]

No matter where, government is always a menace, and as history progressed in the 20th century 170-200 million people have paid with their lives because of governments.

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by ckBejug Yes, yes, yes. Finally someone who gets it. So, the coalition forces captured Saddam. Disastrous news for the Democratic Party, as it probably means that Bush will trumpet this as a huge victory, despite the fact that it took nine months and his administration still hasn't managed to find Osama bin Laden (which they will probably miraculously do several days before the election, in order to ensure victory... bin Laden is probably already interned in Guantanamo right now).

Sadly, the American people will probably celebrate this, rather than humbly accept it and urge the current administration to speed their exit from Iraq. Because if America has an imperative to rebuild Iraq, to show the world that it is a responsible nation after all, then the Halliburton scandals and continued fighting are evidence that we're doing a poor job of it. Or have you guys not heard what's going on with the rebuild Iraq crew? Halliburton... That would be the company our heart-attack prone VP Cheney used to be the PRESIDENT of..... has been accused of overcharging the US government for gas and other expenses related to the whole rebuild Iraq campaign.

What I don't understand is how we (and by WE I mean the American people) can all see/hear about all these shady dealings associated with Bush and the Republican party and just let it be. It will be very sad sad if Bush gets re-elected in November, much as I don't like this whole politics business, I will make sure to vote so Bush wont be back in office after the next elections....

It used to be, when the government and the corporations worked together, they called that fascism, now it's a "democracy".

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by patlajan What you call criticial thinking is just filling the void of fact with your imagination, and sweeping generalities. And your idea that someone can create someone else is absurd to me.
You gravitate to that because of something in your own experience and not your "critical thinking". I was curious what that "thing" in your experience is, before they put you back in your straightjacket. That's all.

You really are naive indeed Mr. patlajan. But hence your name, eggplant. Nothing is without causation you see.

So what part of the U.S. creating Saddam is imagination? I've already read it on several articles, mind you, mainstream sources. Hell I've seen A&E's Biography on Saddam even on the history channel on the Iraq-Iran conflict. What part of the U.S. initiating the Gulf War during Bush Sr. is imagination? What part of Bush having foreknowledge of the terrorists at 911 is imagination?

Actually it's you who would rather live in imagination than expose your own thoughts to scrutiny. Be careful not to assume to much, for I never asked you to agree, you see in the haze of your confusion and frustration you are quick to jump to conclusions, as is expected from someone who doesn't like dissenters. However, you need to ask the more pertinent questions, such as, why did all of Congress unanimously pass the Patriot Act right after 911 without even reading it? Now we have General Tommy Franks saying that another large scale attack and we go into martial law, Constitution suspended. What part of the U.S. creating these terrorist networks such as Osama and Al Qaeda in an effort to fight the Soviets is imagination? What about the business ties that Bush and the bin Ladens have and why Bush Sr. met with Osamas brother days prior to 911? Why is it that you had Paul Wolfowitz making references to attacking Iraq in an interview weeks after 911? What part of this is imagination I ask, for if I am imagining things, please point them out, maybe I too can join the rest of you in 'reality'.

[patlajan]

Originally posted by Anonymouse You really are naive indeed Mr. patlajan. But hence your name, eggplant. Nothing is without causation you see.

So what part of the U.S. creating Saddam is imagination? I've already read it on several articles, mind you, mainstream sources. Hell I've seen A&E's Biography on Saddam even on the history channel on the Iraq-Iran conflict. What part of the U.S. initiating the Gulf War during Bush Sr. is imagination? What part of Bush having foreknowledge of the terrorists at 911 is imagination?

Actually it's you who would rather live in imagination than expose your own thoughts to scrutiny. Be careful not to assume to much, for I never asked you to agree, you see in the haze of your confusion and frustration you are quick to jump to conclusions, as is expected from someone who doesn't like dissenters. However, you need to ask the more pertinent questions, such as, why did all of Congress unanimously pass the Patriot Act right after 911 without even reading it? Now we have General Tommy Franks saying that another large scale attack and we go into martial law, Constitution suspended. What part of the U.S. creating these terrorist networks such as Osama and Al Qaeda in an effort to fight the Soviets is imagination? What about the business ties that Bush and the bin Ladens have and why Bush Sr. met with Osamas brother days prior to 911? Why is it that you had Paul Wolfowitz making references to attacking Iraq in an interview weeks after 911? What part of this is imagination I ask, for if I am imagining things, please point them out, maybe I too can join the rest of you in 'reality'.

Saying the U.S. created al qaida is like saying the Russians created the vietcong in Vietnam. Handing someone a stinger missle to fight the soviets is not creation. That person must have a willingess to fight and die first, and that comes only from within.

Of course you took the Tommy Franks interview (to a cigar magazine?) out of context. He said that would be his fear after a major attack. But you saw what you wanted to see.

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by patlajan Saying the U.S. created al qaida is like saying the Russians created the vietcong in Vietnam. Handing someone a stinger missle to fight the soviets is not creation. That person must have a willingess to fight and die first, and that comes only from within.

Of course you took the Tommy Franks interview (to a cigar magazine?) out of context. He said that would be his fear after a major attack. But you saw what you wanted to see.

Actually, whether he said it was his fear or not, he nonetheless said that THAT is what would happen. I haven't read the actual magazine, merely the Associated Press article on him, which, according to Franks is that we will lose all constitutional liberties under the rule of martial law.

And assuming you're right on semantics, how does that take anything away from something like that happening? Historically it has not been far for "democracies" to turn into authoritarian states. Whether he fears it or not, he should thus feel the blame since its his demeanor in the army that has spawned these terrorists.

In any event, for someone that has a signature of fact are better than dreams, it appears to you that dreams are better than facts since you failed to show me how my position is imaginitive.