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A Life Complete or Death & Answers

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  • #31
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A Life Complete or Death & Answers

    Originally posted by loseyourname We don't assume that knowledge is of the material world. Give me the proper machinery and I can show exactly where in your brain your knowledge is located. Furthermore, most of your knowledge and your awareness is of material objects. If your soul exists, and it is indeed an individualized awareness of your mental states, then without a brain and without sensory capabilities, I would like to know what the awareness would then be of. I ask this quite seriously. I am assuming for the sake of argument that the soul exists, as does some form of afterlife. Now let us speculate on what that form may be.
    Freud divided people into believers and unbelievers. Under unbelievers he categorized materialists, seekers, skeptics, agnostics, and atheists. Under believers he included all those who attributed and gave intellectual assent to a supernatural being which gave them some spiritual experience. He called his view "scientific" simply because of its premise that knowledge comes only from research, which, if I don't misunderstand, you seem to support. However, this basic premise, cannot itself be based on scientific research. It is a philosophical assumption that all knowledge comes from research, and no knowledge comes from faith. That spiritual knowledge of God, and having ordained us with free will, is not material knowledge per se, for it is more based on faith, than the material certainty you seek. God gave us free will, which even though makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes any love or joy possible. But this is off topic.

    Going back to the original question of the thread, as I have said, I would take the first road and I've stated my reason(s), and my faith speaks for the rest of it.
    Last edited by Anonymouse; 01-09-2004, 06:10 PM.
    Achkerov kute.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Baron Dants Also, wouldn't all the books read by the people on the first road be written by those who walked on the second one?
      Hey Baron, I know this reply is a little late but the whole idea that goes with this thread is that you have to have a little bit of suspension of disbelief. You and I both know these options are never going to be presented to us, but we can answer the question anyway... right? So pretend you live your life until he age of 25 or something and then have the decision to walk down one road or the other. I'm sure you'll have enough questions by that age. Just look at us, we're 17-20-something range and we have enough questions to last us a lifetime already..... Anyway, i am beginning to think that option two is really unattainable. It's exactly what I want, a life complete, wonder if it'll happen.....
      Last edited by ckBejug; 01-10-2004, 10:29 AM.
      The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function. -- F. Scott Fitzgerald

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      • #33
        Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A Life Complete or Death & Answers

        Originally posted by Anonymouse It is a philosophical assumption that all knowledge comes from research, and no knowledge comes from faith.
        Again, science's epistemic principles are well known and are documented to be effective. There is no doubt that knowledge can come about through scientific research. That isn't to say that is the only way to attain knowledge. I'm just asking for you to provide some form of justification for saying that you are able to attain knowledge through faith alone. If you can provide nothing, your words are hollow and meaningless.
        Sweet is the lore which nature brings; our meddling intellect misshapes the beauteous forms of things: we murder to dissect.

        -William Wordsworth

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        • #34
          Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: A Life Complete or Death & Answers

          Originally posted by loseyourname Again, science's epistemic principles are well known and are documented to be effective. There is no doubt that knowledge can come about through scientific research. That isn't to say that is the only way to attain knowledge. I'm just asking for you to provide some form of justification for saying that you are able to attain knowledge through faith alone. If you can provide nothing, your words are hollow and meaningless.
          Well, of course they are hollow and meaningless, since when can you prove faith with scientific criteria of the material world. Thus if I explain to you the spiritual experiences in my life, it won't be "scientific", in fact I would be better classed as "delusional". You are right and everyone else is wrong, rest assured.
          Achkerov kute.

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          • #35
            I would like to see some kind of explanation. I didn't say to be scientific. Use logic, common sense, anything. Even if all you have is delusion, by all means, share your delusion.
            Sweet is the lore which nature brings; our meddling intellect misshapes the beauteous forms of things: we murder to dissect.

            -William Wordsworth

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            • #36
              Originally posted by loseyourname I would like to see some kind of explanation. I didn't say to be scientific. Use logic, common sense, anything. Even if all you have is delusion, by all means, share your delusion.
              Maybe you want to start another thread since this is off topic, or bring back your God thread? I believe you pick the second road, and I picked the first road for reasons obvious, but I must be wrong for picking the first road, how dare I exercise free will. Thus we have already answered this thread and cannot go beyond a certain point except off-topic.

              It is also interesting to note that the same person that has trouble making that leap of faith in God, spiritual awareness, or free will, is also the same person who has started the threads on them? Can you say "desire"?
              Achkerov kute.

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              • #37
                I never said I had no desire, Mousy. I would love for my life to be as simple as yours. I would love to have all the answers and to know everything that there is to be known. But as I said before, I'm not as easily convinced as you are. I will start another thread.
                Sweet is the lore which nature brings; our meddling intellect misshapes the beauteous forms of things: we murder to dissect.

                -William Wordsworth

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by loseyourname I never said I had no desire, Mousy. I would love for my life to be as simple as yours. I would love to have all the answers and to know everything that there is to be known. But as I said before, I'm not as easily convinced as you are. I will start another thread.
                  But I don't have all the answers, this is where my faith begins.
                  Achkerov kute.

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                  • #39
                    So what is that you have, Arman? Faith or knowledge? You speak with so much authority, but do you really know? If so, then you don't have faith. Faith is not required when you are already certain of something. If faith is required, then you are not certain, and you do not have knowledge. I never said I don't have faith. I simply make no attempt to put it in a neat little box and define it and limit it and understand it. It is what it is. It's faith - it is not knowledge. I do not confuse the two.
                    Sweet is the lore which nature brings; our meddling intellect misshapes the beauteous forms of things: we murder to dissect.

                    -William Wordsworth

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by loseyourname So what is that you have, Arman? Faith or knowledge? You speak with so much authority, but do you really know? If so, then you don't have faith. Faith is not required when you are already certain of something. If faith is required, then you are not certain, and you do not have knowledge. I never said I don't have faith. I simply make no attempt to put it in a neat little box and define it and limit it and understand it. It is what it is. It's faith - it is not knowledge. I do not confuse the two.
                      I only speak with authority regarding myself. I would say I have both, since knowledge, as you define it, is confined to our world, faith like I said, goes beyond where reason ends. Of course, you don't have to agree with this nor feel threatened. It's simply a discussion. I don't want to be an authority for you, only you can be that, I am however an authority over my self.
                      Achkerov kute.

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