Religion (split from Q&A)

[Haykakan]

Re: Religion (split from Q&A)

That sounds like the hrya argument to me except the armenian part. The pervasivness of narsasism today makes me want to vomit.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion (split from Q&A)

I suggest that we all pray that siggie will change the avatar to anything but a hairy a hole. Amen.
Now if siggie changes it then we will know that god truely does exist.

What if God is extremely old and only speaks Armenian, and our existence is critical to the future of the world which is why some want to destroy us and others want to protect us

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion (split from Q&A)

That may have been the motivation for the alphabet then, but it's probable it would have been invented anyhow. However, whatever reason it was invented for, the alphabet is not religious.

Many writings claim that the alphabet came to Mesrop Mashtots through divine vision. It's a possibility that the people at the time made this up to glorify the history. However, after the creation of the alphabet, literature and culture became the shields of Armenia's defense from other cultures ultimately preserving the Armenian identity. Literature and culture became protectors of the Church and vice versa. If all those events and circumstances didn't occur (fall of the Roman Empire, adoption of Christianity, creation of the alphabet for the church, the church spreading the new religion), defense and eternity of the nation would have been questionable. It is also known that Assyrians had their alphabet earlier than Armenians did, however, their alphabet didn’t become their protector and Assyrians where pushed out of the historical arena.

Here is a quick read on the history of the creation of the Armenian alphabet http://armenianlanguage.org/alphabet/alphabet.html

[Haykakan]

Re: Religion (split from Q&A)

I suggest that we all pray that siggie will change the avatar to anything but a hairy a hole. Amen.
Now if siggie changes it then we will know that god truely does exist.

[jgk3]

Re: Religion (split from Q&A)

When people see God in their institutions and their territory, religion and politics come alive as one. The more homogenous a society's belief, the more potent its force, and the longer it can be held by a single dynasty.

[Siggie]

Re: Religion (split from Q&A)

The recreation of the alphabet was critical to oppose the inevitability of assimilation since the Greek language was the ruling language during that time period much like English is today.

That may have been the motivation for the alphabet then, but it's probable it would have been invented anyhow. However, whatever reason it was invented for, the alphabet is not religious.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion (split from Q&A)

The alphabet may have been created later on anyway although the motivation to do so at that time was to translate religious texts.

The scholars and historians were in religious positions because they were the ones who were literate and could write these things down at that early time.

I cannot speak to the academic systems and the rest, but there are secular charities as well and there was no education that early than theology. It isn't as if these early school were established to teach people math, engineering, science, etc... It was to train them as monks, priests, etc. Further,most of the religious organization who are involved in charity use it as a means to try to attract people to their religion (e.g. preaching, giving pamphlets, etc).

I am not informed about the music either, so I cannot comment as to the veracity of your statement, but can we say that had the music not been documented, Armenia would not exist now?

In the end, we cannot say that these things would not have happened anyway in due time, nor that had they not, that Armenia would not ave survived.

The recreation of the alphabet was critical to oppose the inevitability of assimilation since the Greek language was the ruling language during that time period much like English is today.

[Siggie]

Re: Religion (split from Q&A)

The influence of Christianity created the following:

1) The Armenian alphabet, it was created by the Vartabeds and the Catholicos at the time. Giving the Armenians the ability to communicate in their own language.
2) The creation of the alphabet brought it to the Golden Age of Armenia in the 5th century in which Armenia was able to document its history.
3) Going forward the most prominent historians of Armenia have been Vartabeds, monks, bishops and priests. The father of Armenian History is also a Saint and a Vartabed of the Armenian Church.
4) The majority of the academic systems, orphanages, and organizations that helped people were ran by the Church since the earliest centuries.
5) The music of the Armenia is mainly conserved by the Church. In the late 20th century Komitas Vartabed is accredited in documenting ethnic Armenian music prior to the Genocide.

Now, granted Armenia existed before Christianity, I would even say before time as we know it, but this does not negate that Armenia and Armenians are now what they are because of Christianity.

The alphabet may have been created later on anyway although the motivation to do so at that time was to translate religious texts.

The scholars and historians were in religious positions because they were the ones who were literate and could write these things down at that early time.

I cannot speak to the academic systems and the rest, but there are secular charities as well and there was no education that early than theology. It isn't as if these early school were established to teach people math, engineering, science, etc... It was to train them as monks, priests, etc. Further,most of the religious organization who are involved in charity use it as a means to try to attract people to their religion (e.g. preaching, giving pamphlets, etc).

I am not informed about the music either, so I cannot comment as to the veracity of your statement, but can we say that had the music not been documented, Armenia would not exist now?

In the end, we cannot say that these things would not have happened anyway in due time, nor that had they not, that Armenia would not ave survived.

[Yeznik]

Re: Religion (split from Q&A)

The influence of Christianity created the following:

1) The Armenian alphabet, it was created by the Vartabeds and the Catholicos at the time. Giving the Armenians the ability to communicate in their own language.
2) The creation of the alphabet brought it to the Golden Age of Armenia in the 5th century in which Armenia was able to document its history.
3) Going forward the most prominent historians of Armenia have been Vartabeds, monks, bishops and priests. The father of Armenian History is also a Saint and a Vartabed of the Armenian Church.
4) The majority of the academic systems, orphanages, and organizations that helped people were ran by the Church since the earliest centuries.
5) The music of the Armenia is mainly conserved by the Church. In the late 20th century Komitas Vartabed is accredited in documenting ethnic Armenian music prior to the Genocide.

Now, granted Armenia existed before Christianity, I would even say before time as we know it, but this does not negate that Armenia and Armenians are now what they are because of Christianity.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Religion (split from Q&A)

I told Yeraz the same thing when he made that claim about Armenia. There is no way to know that Christianity saved Armenia. It survived long before Christianity and it is impossible to say that it has survived since because of it.

You're talking about eternal life because I mentioned salvation? Does it make sense to say you wouldn't continue your ancestry if you didn't believe? What is "hell" then?

As for materialism, no one has argued that the bible does not include some good things (though there's lots of bad). It is not the only source for them though.

There were many Armenians that gave up their faith, assimilated into other cultures and populations and can no longer identify themselves as Armenian even though they have Armenian ancestry. They are lost. Hell is the concept of damnation or in other words, you're not worthy to be preserved.