Richard Dawkins interview with Bill O'Reilly

[Stark Evade]

Re: Richard Dawkins interview with Bill O'Reilly

I think it's a cleverly disguised ideology.

I'm sorry that would establish such a precedent that any disagreement would be an ideology. For example, if someone were to start a cult based around Johnny Depp actually being a female tarantula and I were to disagree and point out that no such evidence exists, I would be as bound to an ideology as the person starting the cult. As a matter of fact, if one extends that train of thought, it would in fact assert that the acceptance or rejection of anything is an ideology, making the term practically meaningless. That's quite absurd. I don't think you understand epistemology.

[HyeClown]

Re: Richard Dawkins interview with Bill O'Reilly

Atheism is not an ideology; it's the rejection of a certain set of ideologies characterized by supernatural beliefs.

I think it's a cleverly disguised ideology.

The Soviet and Chinese communists' murders were not fueled by their atheism but by politics. It has no relation. It is the same argument O'Reilly used in the clip when he told Dawkins that Hitler and Stalin killed a lot of people and they happened to be atheists (Hitler was in fact not but that is beyond the point). These two also have mustaches, does this mean there is a correlation between having a mustache and being a mass murderer?

The atheist's response is foolish to such a magnitude that it is
not really deserving deserving of an answer. Nonetheless, for the
sake of fairness, we will endeavor to assess his objection.

Was the philosophy of atheism espoused by communists responsible
for the mass murders perpetrated by communist leaders such as
Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and Ceausescu? Let's look at some enlightening
facts that militant atheists prefer not to acknowledge.

1. Communists leaders were motivated by a strong desire to impose
an ideological "package" over the whole world. The package included
the eradication of Religion, defined by arch-atheist, Karl Marx, as
"The opium of the people." According to Marx, religion helped keep
the masses passive before the abuse of the wealthy and powerful,
and the only way to free them from the "stupor," God and religion
had to be eradicated. Lenin embraced Marx's views and so did
Stalin up to the Second World war. The enforcement of Atheism was a
"critical" requirement for Communism's success, and thus it had to
be implemented at all costs. This meant oppressive measures, such
as brainwashing in state schools, the closing of houses of worship
and arresting countless religious leaders.

2. Karl Marx's extremist followers were not in any way impeded in
their blood-thirsty global quest by fear of a Higher Power. Atheism
took very efficient care of this "limiting factor." Since the end
justified the means, as Machiavelli had instructed, they could do
whatever was necessary to bring about a workers' paradise. Because
the opposition in some cases proved to be powerful and resilient,
drastic means were used. Large numbers were killed for refusing to
abandon their religious beliefs. A great many were sent to
concentration camps. (For an enlightening, "first-hand" account of
suppression of Religion and other "enemies" of Atheistic-Communism
in Russia, please read, The Gulag Archipelago, by Alexander
Solzhenitsyn -- especially Chapter 2.)

3. Communist-atheist leaders, in their own eyes, became supreme,
all-knowing, all-wise and all powerful "gods." They had total
control over people's lives and over who lived and who died. Being
"gods," they asserted their evil schemes over the masses with
brutality and mercilessness.

4. People like Stalin were interested in propagating an ideology,
not a look. Nobody was persecuted in the Soviet Union for not
having a mustache like Stalin, or for not wearing a uniform similar
to his, or for not liking the same food, music or sports. Large
numbers were persecuted and killed for practicing religion, and for
being interferences to atheist-communist expansion. Now some would
retort that Stalin had a change of heart during the Second World
war and that he recognized and elevated anew the Russian Orthodox
Church. This is a historically correct statement, but in no way
does it indicate that Stalin moved toward theism. The move was
strictly utilitarian. Steven Merritt Miner in his work Stalin's
Holy War informs us that Stalin had ulterior motives behind the
move. "Moscow's religious policy at this time can only be understood in
the context of Soviet security considerations, especially Moscow's
concerns about the disaffection of non-Russian nationalities. The
Kremlin saw the church not only, and perhaps not even primarily, as
a tool for mobilizing and harnessing Russian nationalism throughout
the union, but rather as one of several instruments for countering
and disarming non-Russian, and anti-Soviet, nationalism. As most
tsars could have told Stalin, the Russian Orthodox Church was an
effective agent for the Russification of the ethnically diverse and
contentious western regions." This move, though "seemingly" noble, did
not neutralize or excuse his heinous actions toward countless Christians
and Muslims who were killed so as to facilitate the spread of Stalin's
atheistic-communistic ideology. Militant atheism, therefore, was a major
factor in the murder of countless millions, during the past century.

Unfortunately, militant atheism, is still driven by some of the same extremist
views reminiscent of atheist-communist regimes of old. They, like
their predecessors, do not hesitate to admit that they hate God,
religion and that they would like to see both disappear forever.

Dinesh D'Souza, eloquently expresses similar
concerns in the following quote:

The crimes of atheism have generally been perpetrated through a
hubristic ideology that sees man, not God, as the creator of
values. Using the latest techniques of science and technology, man
seeks to displace God and create a secular utopia here on earth. Of
course if some people - the J-ews, the landowners, the unfit, or the
handicapped - have to be eliminated in order to achieve this
utopia, this is a price the atheist tyrants and their apologists
have shown themselves quite willing to pay. Thus they confirm the
truth of Fyodor Dostoyevsky's dictum, "If God is not, everything is
permitted. --

___________________________

So we see history repeating itself again... but instead of Russia, it is the USA that seems to be following the same path.

[Stark Evade]

Re: Richard Dawkins interview with Bill O'Reilly

Communism, Capitalism and Socialism are systems used to distribute the Earth's resources among the populations. Atheism and Religion form the ideology of the people. Who decides which system you're born into and what ideology you should follow?

Atheism is not an ideology; it's the rejection of a certain set of ideologies characterized by supernatural beliefs.

[HyeClown]

Re: Richard Dawkins interview with Bill O'Reilly

I don't agree that history should be optional, if you don't know about the world's history and your nations history it just makes you ignorant and racist, lack of knowledge is dangerous...if you want evidence look at what happened to Turk's in Turkey. I would say you can never learn enough history, and its important to have at least a little history in your head (and in your heart).

So what is the point of learning history if it wasn't factual? Americans believe what is being written about events leading up to, during and probably decades after the occupations in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Also you are incorrect to blame atheism for the political and economic system of the USSR, it was communist and communist atheists have a different ideology to capitalist atheists, and democratic socialist atheists.

In addition atheism is not a system of control it is simply the idea that there is no god. Communism, Capitalism and Socialism are forces that can control and shape society, simply having no belief in god doesn't cause the world to come to the end.

Communism, Capitalism and Socialism are systems used to distribute the Earth's resources among the populations. Atheism and Religion form the ideology of the people. Who decides which system you're born into and what ideology you should follow?

Also that statement I made is not insult but fact, ignorance and stupidity is one thing that will always exist, regardless of how well we try. If you don't believe me look at history, we have had more genocides, events of mass murder, terrorism, and genocide denial in the last 2 centuries than in the entire history of the world, even though we have the internet and greater access to knowledge and information.

We have also had more advanced weapon systems, easier manipulation of information through centralized media sources and entire generations who have spent more than half their lives being programmed by television and media rather than actually living life.

[Muhaha]

Re: Richard Dawkins interview with Bill O'Reilly

What about that?

I'm saying I agree with that part of what you're saying.

[hipeter924]

Re: Richard Dawkins interview with Bill O'Reilly

History should definitely be optional. Especially if it's being taught by the Turkish government.



No relation? In order to implement state atheism in the USSR, they shut down churches, mosques, synagogues and murdered bishops and priests.

Albania is also another example of state sponsored atheism. it was part of the constitution.

http://bjoerna.dk/dokumentation/Alba...nce,%20Culture


EDUCATION, SCIENCE, CULTURE
Article 37

The state recognizes no religion whatever and supports atheist propaganda for the purpose of inculcating the scientific materialist world outlook in people.


Using atheism to control a population is no different than a government using religion to control the population. As hipeter pointed out, a secular government (if there really is such a thing) is the best way of ensuring that there are an array of ideological groups so that not everyone is herded like sheep brought to slaughter.



I wonder how many doctors, physicists, scientists and other brilliant members of society you have insulted with that single statement.

I don't agree that history should be optional, if you don't know about the world's history and your nations history it just makes you ignorant and racist, lack of knowledge is dangerous...if you want evidence look at what happened to Turk's in Turkey. I would say you can never learn enough history, and its important to have at least a little history in your head (and in your heart).

Also you are incorrect to blame atheism for the political and economic system of the USSR, it was communist and communist atheists have a different ideology to capitalist atheists, and democratic socialist atheists.

In addition atheism is not a system of control it is simply the idea that there is no god. Communism, Capitalism and Socialism are forces that can control and shape society, simply having no belief in god doesn't cause the world to come to the end.

Also that statement I made is not insult but fact, ignorance and stupidity is one thing that will always exist, regardless of how well we try. If you don't believe me look at history, we have had more genocides, events of mass murder, terrorism, and genocide denial in the last 2 centuries than in the entire history of the world, even though we have the internet and greater access to knowledge and information.

[Stark Evade]

Re: Richard Dawkins interview with Bill O'Reilly

The atheism in Albanian and the USSR is a byproduct of Marxism/communism.

[HyeClown]

You think science education should be optional?! That's crazy. Should history be optional? How about math? Science is how we acquire information about the world and how it works. It cannot be optional.

History should definitely be optional. Especially if it's being taught by the Turkish government.

The Soviet and Chinese communists' murders were not fueled by their atheism but by politics. It has no relation. It is the same argument O'Reilly used in the clip when he told Dawkins that Hitler and Stalin killed a lot of people and they happened to be atheists (Hitler was in fact not but that is beyond the point). These two also have mustaches, does this mean there is a correlation between having a mustache and being a mass murderer?

No relation? In order to implement state atheism in the USSR, they shut down churches, mosques, synagogues and murdered bishops and priests.

Albania is also another example of state sponsored atheism. it was part of the constitution.

http://bjoerna.dk/dokumentation/Alba...nce,%20Culture


EDUCATION, SCIENCE, CULTURE
Article 37

The state recognizes no religion whatever and supports atheist propaganda for the purpose of inculcating the scientific materialist world outlook in people.


Using atheism to control a population is no different than a government using religion to control the population. As hipeter pointed out, a secular government (if there really is such a thing) is the best way of ensuring that there are an array of ideological groups so that not everyone is herded like sheep brought to slaughter.

Religion will always be here in one form or another, whether due to stupidity, arrogance or dislike of scientific thought and reasoning.

I wonder how many doctors, physicists, scientists and other brilliant members of society you have insulted with that single statement.

[Haykakan]

Re: Richard Dawkins interview with Bill O'Reilly

This.

What about that?

[Muhaha]

Re: Richard Dawkins interview with Bill O'Reilly

if there is a god he/she/it is nothing like what the major religions describe-not even close.

This.