Richard Dawkins interview with Bill O'Reilly

[axel]

Re: Richard Dawkins interview with Bill O'Reilly

Haygagan, I am afraid you totally missed my point, first and foremost, the distinction to be made between reason/rational thinking and rationalism.

You were in a room. You've opened a door but you are still in the house.
Maybe you will stay in the house, maybe you will be find a way to the outside world. I assume the room was crowded and now that you've met Siggie (hanging out in the living?), you think you are breathing fresh air. But you haven't looked through the window yet. You haven't seen the people outside the house. You're hearing one on the radio and you think the voice is coming from the room.

Cheers,
Gabriel

[Yeznik]

Re: Richard Dawkins interview with Bill O'Reilly

One of the many reasons why Atheism seems to be appealing is because it falsely depicts itself as an “intellectual liberation”.

The whole idea, in the Western world, that the universe is rational is based on a religious foundation, mainly Christianity. Furthermore, most of science in its development has been understood in the context in how God created things. Here is a quote from Sir Isaac Newton:

“It became Him (God) who created it to set it in order; and if he did so, it is unphilosophical to seek for any other origin of the world, or to pretend that it might arise out of a chaos by the mere laws of Nature.”

The whole concept of religion being irrational and illogical would only make sense if religion was wholly based on nonsensical blind faith rather than reasonable faith. There are other scientists such as Geneticist Francis Collins who is considered "one of the most accomplished scientists of our time" and John Lennox, who is a Mathematician, who are highly accomplished in their respective fields and are also Christian and speak about their faith openly and more specifically rationally.

Francis Collins: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis...8geneticist%29
John Lennox http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lennox

[hipeter924]

Re: Richard Dawkins interview with Bill O'Reilly

Buddhism is Atheistic, they don't worship gods as such and it is a religious belief, so you don't have to believe in a god to be religious.

But none the less you can pick and choose over theists and atheists and you will get nowhere. You can pick Stalin and say all Atheists are like him, yet then we point out another Atheist John Lennon that dedicated his entire life to Peace and was murdered by a Christian fanatic. In the end its a rather stupid argument to suggest someone is evil or corrupt from the first because they are Atheist. I would not make the same assumptions about a theist or anyone who believes in other ideologies or beliefs.

But I find many theists instantly assume non-theists are inherently evil, corrupt people on the basis they don't believe in a god. This amuses me and annoys me no end, because no belief system or ideology is evil or corrupt from the first, only how it is applied can be corrupt or evil.

Why Atheists consider many Theists blind, ignorant is simply on the basis they can't physically prove their beliefs, beyond the point of religious texts, spiritual events and hearsay. What many have pointed out is that if Theists could physically prove their beliefs beyond reasonable doubt then there would be no Atheists, because we could all understand and see 'god's work' but the reality is that there are no clear physical proofs of god, if any at all that can't be disproved.

[Lucin]

Re: Richard Dawkins interview with Bill O'Reilly

The "atheism" of most self-assessed "atheists" is fundamentally an intellectual/conceptual attitude. As such, it cannot serve as an existential foundation for life, as life (and love, first and foremost) is not driven by intellect or ideology.

I'm not sure if I understand you correctly but how can our life not be driven by ideology? It just haunts you everywhere you go even if we're not conscious of its existence. Even your talking about 'ideology' in here is ideological, in my opinion.

PS about atheism, it is very sad to see this passion flourishing among armenians.

I share you concern. What is not understandable is that how can people (Atheists here) put Christianity in the same sack as Islam and Judaism and then kick it under the guise of 'religion'? The two latter being narcississtic, racist (at times), childish by nature and concentrating on mundane issues do not have much in common with Christianity, in my opinion.
Also, have you guys even read the NT in its entirety?

[Haykakan]

Re: Richard Dawkins interview with Bill O'Reilly

Islam is neither racist nor can it in any way be confused with narcissism while todays zionists are unquestionably both. Islam can be accused of forcing itself down peoples throats but then again so is chrystianity. The three religions have a lot in common. People always fear something new and different thus they will claim that the spread of atheism, agnostocs or anything else different will doom the armenians but in reality such conclusions are simply a joke. Armenia existed and prospered long before chrystianity, as a matter of fact our best days as a nation happened while we were pegans not christians. Christianity did not make Armenia but one could argue that Armenia made christyanity by being the first nation to adopt it officialy. Religions thrive on taking credit for things they had nothing to do with and this is no different. Armenia existed and willl continue to exist regardless of christianity.

[axel]

Re: Richard Dawkins interview with Bill O'Reilly

how can our life not be driven by ideology

If you love someone, is that driven by ideology? Is there anything greater than love in life?

Even your talking about 'ideology' in here is ideological

My argument is a rational argument against rationalism. It has no further pretention, precisely because one does not change his/her overall attitude towards life based on an intellectual argument but rather after a spiritual shock induced by hard experience. A spiritual shock may arise from a discussion only if one stops reasoning from the outside but accepts to engage himself in it fully ("existentially"). Most often, this does not happen. The "atheist" sticks to the conceptual/intellectual plane where he sees his counterpart as a "theist", ie a proponent of an opposing "theory" (we have an illustration a bit above)

As to religions... I don't want delve into that debate now

I will just say this
A man of God is a man of God, be He jewish, christian, muslim, buddhist, "atheist"...

[KanadaHye]

Re: Richard Dawkins interview with Bill O'Reilly

If you love someone, is that driven by ideology? Is there anything greater than love in life?

I don't believe in "love".... I believe you can choose to love or choose not to love, and allow yourself to be loved or not to be loved. Most selfish people choose to love themselves and live only for their own benefit. Unselfishness is the foundation of Christianity in my opinion. This involves everything from the decisions you make involving life right down to money matters.

[axel]

Re: Richard Dawkins interview with Bill O'Reilly

I don't believe in "love"

Then you don't believe in Christ. For if you were to believe in Christ, you would believe in love. For Christ is the perfect embodiment of love, the cross being its ultimate expression (self-sacrifice).

Unselfishness is the foundation of Christianity in my opinion

Unselfishness could be supported by any philosophy/doctrine/teaching.
The moment you start thinking in terms of "christianism", religion, teachings..., you lose sight of Christ himself.

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
15 John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Richard Dawkins interview with Bill O'Reilly

Then you don't believe in Christ. For if you were to believe in Christ, you would believe in love. For Christ is the perfect embodiment of love, the cross being its ultimate expression (self-sacrifice).

Christ taught how to love and be loved. There is no phenomenon known as "love" i.e. Cupid's arrow. In fact, the act of love entails so many actions and devotions that it simply cannot be described by a single word. Self-sacrifice begins with being unselfish and learning by making sacrifices for others so that their lives are filled with meaning.

[axel]

Re: Richard Dawkins interview with Bill O'Reilly

Christ taught how to love and be loved...

You haven't read/understood my message so I'm not going to insist.
You don't understand Christ.

I will just add one last thing regarding love.

Maybe you do not love anyone. Maybe you do not love your parents (rather, you choose to "love" them) Yet if you do, the day they will pass away, you will understand that love is not a matter of "choice" as you put it.

Siggie has this interesting quote by Philip K. Dick in her signature:
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn’t go away."