Atheism and being Armenian

[KanadaHye]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

Umm... I don't think this really makes the argument you're trying to. I.e. it doesn't suggest religion lead to development of emotions.

That's not what I said, where did you read that? I said everyone is born with a spiritual conscience and that it can be suppressed. In other words, if that part of the brain isn't stimulated, there are certain emotions that will be lacking and that is what this particular psychologist suggests as well.

[Siggie]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

That's not what I said, where did you read that? I said everyone is born with a spiritual conscience and that it can be suppressed. In other words, if that part of the brain isn't stimulated, there are certain emotions that will be lacking and that is what this particular psychologist suggests as well.

Fine so instead of helping develop (originally you were saying being raised in religion changes you) now it's we're born "whole" in that way but it's suppressed by atheism? Then wouldn't it be irrelevant if someone was raised with religion? It would be more important what happened later. Point out where the article supports that suppression idea.
It says positive emotions helps get away from "self" which s/he thinks is necessary to feel spiritual as defined there. It does say, specifally!, that it doesn't require religion.

[Jinx]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

[KanadaHye]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

Fine so instead of helping develop (originally you were saying being raised in religion changes you) now it's we're born "whole" in that way but it's suppressed by atheism? Then wouldn't it be irrelevant if someone was raised with religion? It would be more important what happened later. Point out where the article supports that suppression idea.
It says positive emotions helps get away from "self" which s/he thinks is necessary to feel spiritual as defined there. It does say, specifally!, that it doesn't require religion.

I said being in contact or having knowledge of religion will affect you because of the environment you're in. It's like being Russified, Turkified or Americanized. Same concept.

"In contrast, positive emotions-excepting perhaps pride-tend to transcend the ego. In joy, forgiveness, compassion, and awe, the ego's boundaries temporarily crumble. Spirituality happens when we get over ourselves, if only for a moment. This may be why many people consider belief in a ‘higher power' essential to spirituality. On strict cognitive terms, a literal belief in a higher power may be ‘hoke,' to use a term Vaillant relishes. With a more liberal definition, though, it does make sense. The ‘higher power' may just be a placeholder for anything beyond the confines of conscious egocentric self-awareness. On the inside, these out-of-ego forces include all the massive work being done by our brains that we, by necessity, will never be able to articulate. On the outside, these forces include our social embeddedness among other humans."

If your ego is so big that you think there is nothing bigger than you, then you're more likely to be power hungry (this is why many dictators are considered to be gods). In Mao's China for example, everyone would have a pictures, posters and statues of Mao with gifts or sacrifices presented to his image. This wasn't thousands of years ago either.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pan_NHLE4vM

This video is about J3ws preparing America for Communism

The Atheist movement is so J3ws can't be targeted for being J3ws since they'll be Atheists. Damn they are smart

[Siggie]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

I said being in contact or having knowledge of religion will affect you because of the environment you're in. It's like being Russified, Turkified or Americanized. Same concept.

No, it's not the same. You can describe how people of each of those categories might be different, but you can't do it with this one, why? Is it because all of those things, compassion, joy, forgiveness, awe, etc are universal? Hard-wired?

"In contrast, positive emotions-excepting perhaps pride-tend to transcend the ego. In joy, forgiveness, compassion, and awe, the ego's boundaries temporarily crumble. Spirituality happens when we get over ourselves, if only for a moment. This may be why many people consider belief in a ‘higher power' essential to spirituality. On strict cognitive terms, a literal belief in a higher power may be ‘hoke,' to use a term Vaillant relishes. With a more liberal definition, though, it does make sense. The ‘higher power' may just be a placeholder for anything beyond the confines of conscious egocentric self-awareness. On the inside, these out-of-ego forces include all the massive work being done by our brains that we, by necessity, will never be able to articulate. On the outside, these forces include our social embeddedness among other humans."

If your ego is so big that you think there is nothing bigger than you, then you're more likely to be power hungry (this is why many dictators are considered to be gods). In Mao's China for example, everyone would have a pictures, posters and statues of Mao with gifts or sacrifices presented to his image. This wasn't thousands of years ago either.

That was the science-y part! Look they're saying can be experienced by religion which is why many consider it essential, but really it's broader than that;it's that that out of ego experience [that's so f-in hard to articulate] achieved by whatever means. I.e., religion is not necessary!

[KanadaHye]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

No, it's not the same. You can describe how people of each of those categories might be different, but you can't do it with this one, why? Is it because all of those things, compassion, joy, forgiveness, awe, etc are universal? Hard-wired?

It's hard wired but has to be stimulated. Positive emotions are harder to achieve as the author points out. Why are there medications for depression if joy and happiness are hard wired? Haven't you ever heard of the saying smiles are contagious?

"A spiritual person is someone who is capable of experiencing joy in play, forgiveness after having been wronged, compassion with others who have been derailed, awe when in communion with others or the splendor of nature."

Is everyone capable? Probably. Does everyone show those traits? Of course not. Why? Because their spiritual conscience is depressed.

That was the science-y part! Look they're saying can be experienced by religion which is why many consider it essential, but really it's broader than that;it's that that out of ego experience [that's so f-in hard to articulate] achieved by whatever means. I.e., religion is not necessary!

I know what they are saying but they mention that the higher power is like a place holder. Think of it like this:

If you want to communicate/swap between the spiritual conscience and the corresponding emotion, you need a place holder.

God = Happiness;
Happiness = Smile;
Smile = God;

The Atheist would have to use more advanced logic like XOR

Happiness=Happiness^Smile;
Smile=Happiness^Smile;
Happiness=Happiness^Smile;

LOL

[Siggie]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

It's hard wired but has to be stimulated. Positive emotions are harder to achieve as the author points out. Why are there medications for depression if joy and happiness are hard wired? Haven't you ever heard of the saying smiles are contagious?

"A spiritual person is someone who is capable of experiencing joy in play, forgiveness after having been wronged, compassion with others who have been derailed, awe when in communion with others or the splendor of nature."

Is everyone capable? Probably. Does everyone show those traits? Of course not. Why? Because their spiritual conscience is depressed.

Every emotion needs a stimulus. We don't experience emotions in a vacuum.
The rest about whether everyone can show these emotions or that they're depressed are simply your own assumptions. There is nothing that speaks to that in the article (which wasn't a scientific source anyway) and you haven't presented anything else to support this.

I know what they are saying but they mention that the higher power is like a place holder. Think of it like this:

If you want to communicate/swap between the spiritual conscience and the corresponding emotion, you need a place holder.

Bottom line is still the same... It's a sufficient, but not necessary condition.
He says belief in a higher power "may be a placeholder." It doesn't say anywhere that "you need a placeholder."

[KanadaHye]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

Every emotion needs a stimulus. We don't experience emotions in a vacuum.
The rest about whether everyone can show these emotions or that they're depressed are simply your own assumptions. There is nothing that speaks to that in the article (which wasn't a scientific source anyway) and you haven't presented anything else to support this.

Feelings require a stimulus. Emotions are generated from the spiritual conscience. Emotions aren't experienced, they are reflections of the conscience.

Other people experience emotions that the subject portrays.

[Siggie]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

Feelings require a stimulus. Emotions are generated from the spiritual conscience. Emotions aren't experienced, they are reflections of the conscience.

These are conclusions without reasoned arguments from which to draw them.
Please provide support for your conclusion that emotions are generated from the "spiritual conscience." That'll probably require first supporting the existence of a "spiritual conscience" first.