Atheism and being Armenian

[gegev]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

People who live with motto; “I’m my own hero” can’t recognize somebody/something mightier/wiser themselves, until summoned by God.

And because they ”enjoy” many things, that are prohibited by Bible/religion as a sin, but are allowed in some states, as their “democratic rights”.

Can somebody believe in a religion that bans the things he/she is carrying out regularly?

[Siggie]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

Why do you ask when you’re not even interested to hear the answer?

I am interested. That's why I asked. I think this would be the starting off point for a more interesting dialogue.

People who live with motto; “I’m my own hero” can’t recognize somebody/something mightier/wiser themselves, until summoned by God.

And because they ”enjoy” many things, that are prohibited by Bible/religion as a sin, but are allowed in some states, as their “democratic rights”.

Can somebody believe in a religion that bans the things he/she is carrying out regularly?

There doesn't need to be tension between us; we are not adversaries. We have probably most other things in common except this one thing. We're more alike than we are different. I just happen not to believe in god. It's really not about being my own hero, not liking the content of the religion, or anything else. It's because I simply do not have evidence for it. There is not reason to believe.

Why do you believe? Why do you think there must be a God? What convinces you of his existence? I am being completely sincere and I hope that all of you believers answer this question... Why do you believe? And please think about it a bit and give a thoughtful open answer.

[Anbidan]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

The dialogue would be interesting yes, but only when we discuss matters by respecting each others’ beliefs, and not ridicule the other side just because we think we have read few more books than the others. Let’s not make it an IQ contest.

Not everyone can sense the spiritual world. It’s like a radio that can’t receive short waves or FM waves, sometimes a good antenna would help, sometimes nothing helps because that radio was not made to receive those waves. If you are happy to what your radio is receiving and not interested to receive deferent waves then it’s good for you, but don’t claim that there is nothing else there. No one can make the blind man see. We can only explain what the clouds, the rainbow, the sunrise or the sunset looks alike, it is up to him to believe it or to dismiss it saying “if I can’t see it or feel it, it does not exist”

I am interested. That's why I asked. I think this would be the starting off point for a more interesting dialogue.

[Siggie]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

The dialogue would be interesting yes, but only when we discuss matters by respecting each others’ beliefs, and not ridicule the other side just because we think we have read few more books than the others. Let’s not make it an IQ contest.

Not everyone can sense the spiritual world. It’s like a radio that can’t receive short waves or FM waves, sometimes a good antenna would help, sometimes nothing helps because that radio was not made to receive those waves. If you are happy to what your radio is receiving and not interested to receive deferent waves then it’s good for you, but don’t claim that there is nothing else there. No one can make the blind man see. We can only explain what the clouds, the rainbow, the sunrise or the sunset looks alike, it is up to him to believe it or to dismiss it saying “if I can’t see it or feel it, it does not exist”

I am not trying to ridicule anyone. I wouldn't even say I'm trying to promote atheism! I am promoting skepticism and science education. If I help someone be a better critical thinker in all other aspects of their lives and they just never transfer that to religion and they maintain they religious belief, I would still consider this a success.
I spoke about atheism because people have all sorts of misconceptions about atheists and atheism (e.g. that religion is the only source of morality, therefore atheists are immoral). Did you know American's say they'd be more willing to elect a muslim to office than an atheist?

Are you suggesting the only evidence comes from people's subjective experiences? Couldn't we still observe evidence for god among the receptive people then? What is it that makes some people receptive. Define receptive. We are not radios, so you need to explain how you think this would happen given human physiology.

I am not limiting evidence to that which I can see or feel. We can describe what clouds and rainbows look like, but we can measure what a cloud is in other ways (moisture?) and we understand how rainbows are "created" and we can create them.

You still have not shared why you believe. You've just basically said that some people can't understand and left it at that.

[Sip]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

The dialogue would be interesting yes, but only when we discuss matters by respecting each others’ beliefs, and not ridicule the other side just because we think we have read few more books than the others. Let’s not make it an IQ contest.

You don't have to read books to realize the fundamentals of Creationism, GOD making humans in "His image", resurrection, and a lot of other "religious" constructs that people so vehemently want to cling on to as being "True" are absolute garbage. Holding dialogues and discussions are great when both sides have valid points to make. But when one side is comprised of complete idiots, sometimes the only choice you have is to just say it like it is.

I made a parallel earlier I believe in this thread about Genocide denialists coming here and wanting to have a "dialogue". There is no dialogue when one side is just completely wrong on their stance.

Now I am not saying atheists are right or wrong. Who am I to say there is or there is no God? There can be many good discussions around that. But I don't think atheists are wrong or out-of-line when they call the evolution-dismissing, Jesus-God equivocating, rapture-awaiting, premarital-sex-is-a-sin proclaiming, gay-bashing, we-receive-spiritual-wavelengths-from-God-that-you-don't "Christians", idiots.

[Siggie]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

You don't have to read books to realize the fundamentals of Creationism, GOD making humans in "His image", resurrection, and a lot of other "religious" constructs that people so vehemently want to cling on to as being "True" are absolute garbage. Holding dialogues and discussions are great when both sides have valid points to make. But when one side is comprised of complete idiots, sometimes the only choice you have is to just say it like it is.

I made a parallel earlier I believe in this thread about Genocide denialists coming here and wanting to have a "dialogue". There is no dialogue when one side is just completely wrong on their stance.

Now I am not saying atheists are right or wrong. Who am I to say there is or there is no God? There can be many good discussions around that. But I don't think atheists are wrong or out-of-line when they call the evolution-dismissing, Jesus-God equivocating, rapture-awaiting, premarital-sex-is-a-sin proclaiming, gay-bashing, we-receive-spiritual-wavelengths-from-God-that-you-don't "Christians", idiots.

I don't think people who are religious are stupid. There's a broad continuum of religiosity and belief though... And some believe things that are more "absurd" than others. For instance, on the more absurd side we have those who believe in the literal interpretation of the bible (e.g. virgin birth, young Earth, believing that bread and wine are literally (yes literally, as in not symbolically) the body and blood of Christ),etc.

I can coexist without issue generally if it was secular. I have a problem with religious influence on science, medicine, education, technology, law/judicial rulings, policy decisions, reproductive rights, individual rights, etc.

[Anbidan]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

Just because someone is Christian you can call him an idiot, and just because you add a simile right after the insult it’s considered an interesting dialogue? And this is very well accepted by the unbiased atheist administrator who claims we can have an interesting dialogue. What bothers you in Christianity is that gays are not accepted and they don’t have orgies when they have ceremonies to worship their lord?

You don't have to read books to realize the fundamentals of Creationism, GOD making humans in "His image", resurrection, and a lot of other "religious" constructs that people so vehemently want to cling on to as being "True" are absolute garbage. Holding dialogues and discussions are great when both sides have valid points to make. But when one side is comprised of complete idiots, sometimes the only choice you have is to just say it like it is.

I made a parallel earlier I believe in this thread about Genocide denialists coming here and wanting to have a "dialogue". There is no dialogue when one side is just completely wrong on their stance.

Now I am not saying atheists are right or wrong. Who am I to say there is or there is no God? There can be many good discussions around that. But I don't think atheists are wrong or out-of-line when they call the evolution-dismissing, Jesus-God equivocating, rapture-awaiting, premarital-sex-is-a-sin proclaiming, gay-bashing, we-receive-spiritual-wavelengths-from-God-that-you-don't "Christians", idiots.

[Siggie]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

Just because someone is Christian you can call him an idiot, and just because you add a simile right after the insult it’s considered an interesting dialogue? And this is very well accepted by the unbiased atheist administrator who claims we can have an interesting dialogue. What bothers you in Christianity is that gays are not accepted and they don’t have orgies when they have ceremonies to worship their lord?

To be fair he said Creationists and described a specific type and if you stop selectively reading (talk about "unbiased") you'd see that I said...

I don't think people who are religious are stupid.

Your response that he must be bothered by the bigotry (yeah, that's exactly what it is) towards the gays and lack of orgies (Channels Palin 'Because this what atheists do anytime more than a couple of them amass, dontcha know!') is at the very least the pot calling the kettle black. That's not approaching someone with a differing viewpoint fairly either. Besides, if you are truly were interested in discussing it, why did you ignore my invitation to do yet again? I didn't insult you, I took time to explain my perspective, and I was nice about.

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Aaaaand there it is... Yedtarts, you messed up. You have 8 posts and you called me the unbiased admin. That piqued my curiosity just enough to take a closer look at you. Oops! Bubye! I would have actually discussed this, but we have a zero tolerance policy toward banned users creating duplicate accounts.

My invitation to discuss respectfully is still open to non-banned members.

[Sip]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

Just because someone is Christian you can call him an idiot, and just because you add a simile right after the insult it’s considered an interesting dialogue? And this is very well accepted by the unbiased atheist administrator who claims we can have an interesting dialogue. What bothers you in Christianity is that gays are not accepted and they don’t have orgies when they have ceremonies to worship their lord?

Siggie is right. I NEVER said someone is stupid just because he or she is Christian. I know some VERY smart Christians who try to live the way Jesus taught. Jesus had many many good things to say and I definitely think the world would be a very good place if more people followed in the footsteps of Jesus.

What I did say was this (as some examples of when I think it is ok to call someone an idiot):

If you believe in Creationism, then you are an idiot.
If you confuse God and Jesus in your head, you are an idiot.
If you are awaiting the rapture to meet up with Jesus and go up into the sky, you are an idiot.
If you think you will go to Hell for having had premarital sex, you are an idiot.
If you bash gays (kill them, hurt them physically, insult them, etc), you are an idiot (and you are certainly no Christian in my view).
If somehow God speaks to you on certain wavelengths that the rest of us don't hear, you are an idiot.

Hope this cleared it up. This are what I call "Christians" (in quotes). The true Christians in my mind are those that are tolerant of others, turn the other cheek, go out of their way to help their fellow man.

Like this guy in Norway that blew up a bunch of buildings and killed about 80 kids in the name of fighting Islam and wrote the 1500 page manifesto with the cross on the cover page ... that guy is an IDIOT. And we should all feel free to say it.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Atheism and being Armenian

Siggie is right. I NEVER said someone is stupid just because he or she is Christian. I know some VERY smart Christians who try to live the way Jesus taught. Jesus had many many good things to say and I definitely think the world would be a very good place if more people followed in the footsteps of Jesus.

What I did say was this (as some examples of when I think it is ok to call someone an idiot):

If you believe in Creationism, then you are an idiot.
If you confuse God and Jesus in your head, you are an idiot.
If you are awaiting the rapture to meet up with Jesus and go up into the sky, you are an idiot.
If you think you will go to Hell for having had premarital sex, you are an idiot.
If you bash gays (kill them, hurt them physically, insult them, etc), you are an idiot (and you are certainly no Christian in my view).
If somehow God speaks to you on certain wavelengths that the rest of us don't hear, you are an idiot.

Hope this cleared it up. This are what I call "Christians" (in quotes). The true Christians in my mind are those that are tolerant of others, turn the other cheek, go out of their way to help their fellow man.

Like this guy in Norway that blew up a bunch of buildings and killed about 80 kids in the name of fighting Islam and wrote the 1500 page manifesto with the cross on the cover page ... that guy is an IDIOT. And we should all feel free to say it.

So who died and made you King of what Christianity is and what it isn't and what people should or shouldn't believe? Seems to me, you're the one that's intolerant.