Armenian lesbians/gays

[gegev]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Look at those "advanced" - unnatural/abnormal people abroad; they are teaching us what is natural/normal. Armenia is still one of the advanced countries in the world in terms of education/science and decent human behaviour!

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

I don't really care about PR. PR is spin. I'm interested in reality. And the reality in Armenia, as in other parts of the world that are in transition to democracy (hopefully), you get a few men trying to usurp power and resources by eliminating the voice of half the population. And because other, less powerful men see opportunity in supporting the attitudes of oligarchs, you get a situation where women and girls are oppressed and suppressed. It may be different in shape, color, and nuance, but it's basically the same thing. And, in Hillary Clinton's words, we in America are not immune to such phenomena, and so those of us who feel passionately about the future of the species need to be just as demanding as the men (and not all men are like this) who see the advancement of women as tantamount to their own emasculation.

Reality is in parts of the world which claim to be "Democratic", you get a few men from Israel that control the power, own the resources and silence the population by paying them off and/or controlling the media. And because other, less powerful men are oppressed and suppressed, they have no say in the upbringing of their children, so their children end up oppressed and suppressed in the hands of both government and non-government organizations.

In Afghanistan, they know they can't change the mentality of the existing generation and can only expect to "Americanize" or "De-culturalize" the future generation. Assimilation is America's specialty, all they do is put children in front of a TV and turn them against their own culture.

I may not have agreed with the lifestyle of Afghans, nor would I liked to have been entrenched in their culture anymore than I'd like to be an Indian or Eskimo but it was their culture and it made them unique and interesting.

The British have been carving that part of the world up for nearly 2 centuries but does anyone mention the real story? Of course not. They are all backwards terrorists and the British and Americans had absolutely no role in their demise because they are Saints

Hitting children is only effective in the short term. It teaches nothing. It does not prevent from the same behavior from happening again. Perhaps the behavior will not happen in front of parents, but it will happen in a different context. The child has learned nothing except that mother is capable of hurting and humiliating her.

I beg to differ. There are instances where someone needs to let the child know who is in charge. Men can just look at a child a certain way and the child will know who is in charge. Women don't seem to have this ability which is why most western children end up being disobedient. If the children aren't obedient by age 5 then it's just going to spiral out of control as they pick up worse habits from the other children at school.

This is exactly why people who are scholars, artists, and intellectuals want nothing to do with their communities and compatriots. You say one thing, they hear only what they want to hear. You try to debate, they begin to threaten. What a sick sick group of people my people have become. Being Armenian has nothing to do with learning and growing any more. It has to do with the least common denominator, with appearances, with rigid thinking, and hostile interpersonal styles; with "we're better just because we think we are". All of these are signs of serious decline. And if the world doesn't give a crap about what happens to Armenia and the Armenians, it is because of these kinds of attitudes and behaviors. Nobody gives a crap if Armenia was the first Christian nation. Armenian music sounds no different to the rest of the world than does Indian Bhangra. For the most part, we have nothing special to offer the world any more. What a sad sad state we are in.

I think part of the problem is that you view yourself inferior to the great white hope because they hold the power and you don't have the patience to be part of a Nation that is on the rise. Instead of being part of the solution, you want to be part of the problem. We all know that there is an oligarchy present in Armenia that's controlled by both Russian and Western interests. Nobody is going to dispute that fact. However, if you think the culture of the west is going to yield power to the citizens, you're sadly mistaken. If regular men and women don't work together to make a better life for themselves then all hope is lost. All Feminist organizations wish to do is put a wedge between men and women so that they are so embroiled in making each others' lives difficult that cultures and nations will never stand a chance at becoming a force to oppose the imperialists and oppressors.

__________________________________________________ ____________

Also, where do YOU draw the line between helping women and exploiting them? For example, there is a successful handicrafts company in Armenia called Berd Bears. Basically, these talented Armenian women hand create adorable crafts and get paid very little for their efforts. This initiative is led by an American of Norwegian ancestry. Do you think it's right to exploit countries like this for profit?

The animation in the video is due to the efforts of Vrej Kassouny

Look at these backwards mountain people. Those Armenians I tell you... when will they ever become civilized?!?!?

[yerazhishda]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

ձանձրալի եղաւ, կը բաւէ:

[Flamenkita]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Such people do a better job at creating negative PR for Armenia than Turks/Azeris put together.

I don't really care about PR. PR is spin. I'm interested in reality. And the reality in Armenia, as in other parts of the world that are in transition to democracy (hopefully), you get a few men trying to usurp power and resources by eliminating the voice of half the population. And because other, less powerful men see opportunity in supporting the attitudes of oligarchs, you get a situation where women and girls are oppressed and suppressed. It may be different in shape, color, and nuance, but it's basically the same thing. And, in Hillary Clinton's words, we in America are not immune to such phenomena, and so those of us who feel passionately about the future of the species need to be just as demanding as the men (and not all men are like this) who see the advancement of women as tantamount to their own emasculation.

[Mos]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

I do not know what 'Armenia' you visited, but this is NOT the case in Armenia. Heck, it is not the case in Azerbaijan either. Do not compare a medieval society (Afghani) with an industrialized one (Armenian).

Where you see the tribal leaders suppressing only to direct resources to themselves, they see a right based on birth. Their mindset is totally differen than your Western viewpoint. You really should know better than to mirror image.

Such people do a better job at creating negative PR for Armenia than Turks/Azeris put together.

[Armanen]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Anyhow, my favorite part of the video I posted was when the second speaker, the woman who runs family resource centers in Afghanistan says that keeping 50% of the population on their knees is a way for male tribal leaders to impose their will and direct resources toward themselves. This happens because of global phenomena such as war and poverty, where resources become limited and oligarchs believe they have no other choice but to suppress entire segments of society. This is exactly the state of affairs in Armenia right now.

I do not know what 'Armenia' you visited, but this is NOT the case in Armenia. Heck, it is not the case in Azerbaijan either. Do not compare a medieval society (Afghani) with an industrialized one (Armenian).

Where you see the tribal leaders suppressing only to direct resources to themselves, they see a right based on birth. Their mindset is totally differen than your Western viewpoint. You really should know better than to mirror image.

[Flamenkita]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Hitting children is only effective in the short term. It teaches nothing. It does not prevent from the same behavior from happening again. Perhaps the behavior will not happen in front of parents, but it will happen in a different context. The child has learned nothing except that mother is capable of hurting and humiliating her.

Anyhow, my favorite part of the video I posted was when the second speaker, the woman who runs family resource centers in Afghanistan says that keeping 50% of the population on their knees is a way for male tribal leaders to impose their will and direct resources toward themselves. This happens because of global phenomena such as war and poverty, where resources become limited and oligarchs believe they have no other choice but to suppress entire segments of society. This is exactly the state of affairs in Armenia right now.

[Flamenkita]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Yes, she ended it with "Yes, America's intervention is creating inequalities and causing many of the cases of violence but we'll make a good living trying to help them." Too bad, so sad... c'est la vie. Nice attitude eh?

I guess you didn't catch the fact that she was actually criticizing the Western approach to helping women in the East, and that her tone was outright cynical, and further, that same theme was picked up and elaborated by the two other speakers.

Wow. Are you really so closed off to the possibility of new ideas that you can't even recognize it when someone's opinion actually is to some extent supportive of your viewpoint?

I've had this experience before. I once gave a lecture about an Armenian cultural practice I had researched. During the question and answer period, I was repeatedly accused of saying that Armenians were copying Muslims, when I said very clearly and repeatedly that Armenians were NOT borrowing from Muslim neighbors in this particular case, and that what I was describing was indigenous and predated the arrival of Islam. The whole point of my talk was to show that the practice I was describing was native and peculiar to Armenians, and that it differentiated Armenians from their neighbors. Can people really be so dense and so prejudiced?

This is exactly why people who are scholars, artists, and intellectuals want nothing to do with their communities and compatriots. You say one thing, they hear only what they want to hear. You try to debate, they begin to threaten. What a sick sick group of people my people have become. Being Armenian has nothing to do with learning and growing any more. It has to do with the least common denominator, with appearances, with rigid thinking, and hostile interpersonal styles; with "we're better just because we think we are". All of these are signs of serious decline. And if the world doesn't give a crap about what happens to Armenia and the Armenians, it is because of these kinds of attitudes and behaviors. Nobody gives a crap if Armenia was the first Christian nation. Armenian music sounds no different to the rest of the world than does Indian Bhangra. For the most part, we have nothing special to offer the world any more. What a sad sad state we are in.

[yerazhishda]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Truth is falling on deaf ears. The sad part about all of this is that Flamenkita's way of thinking is accepted by North American (read American and Canadian) society as a whole, whether they be male or female...there's no turning back.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Did you actually watch the video with the audio on? Because, at least Lila Abu Lughod was pretty critical of Israel, and the other speakers were very critical of the West's intervention into the Middle East in ways that are not at all helpful.

Yes, she ended it with "Yes, America's intervention is creating inequalities and causing many of the cases of violence but we'll make a good living trying to help them." Too bad, so sad... c'est la vie. Nice attitude eh?

My problem with Armenian culture is the rigid structure of authority that presumes certain people know better than others just by being who they are. This may have been appropriate in the past but it is highly counterproductive now. In my family, for example, there are matters in which I am way better qualified to make judgments and decisions than my father is. But if we were to follow traditional patterns, we would have to defer to his opinion just to preserve the hierarchy. To me that seems counterproductive. Just because he is male and my senior doesn't always mean he is right. My father believes, for example, that I should administer physical punishment when my kids misbehave. I know for a fact that such discipline does not work in the long run, and only teaches kids to resolve their own problems through physical intimidation. In this situation, I know better, and I will let my father know that I don't plan to follow his advice. According to the world view of many, I should put aside my own better judgment and defer to my father's opinion just by virtue of the fact that he is older and male. THAT is BS.

Generally, the elders are there for wisdom and advice, they'll listen to the problems and the facts then help come up with a solution. Most of the time they know that there is a generation difference and what worked in their days doesn't necessarily apply now. They aren't that rigid.

My sister in law had the same ideals about not laying a hand on her kids. Then one day she just couldn't take any more of the little brat and out of frustration started spanking her right in front of the whole family. Everybody just stood there in silence. Not hard but enough to put a scare into my niece and embarrass her in front of everyone. I'd have to say, it was rather effective.