Armenian lesbians/gays

[ADandelion]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

All right, but what does that have to do with these philosophical principles in Judaism?

Are you arguing that every life doesn't have equal value? i.e that killing an infant is more or less valid than killing a thief? Because that's a whole other debate, where we would have to examine whether being male or female makes your life intrinsically more valuable.

I don't think Communism is quite the same thing as feminism. Communism in its ideal creates equal living conditions as a result of unequal contribution. Feminism seems to want equality without really understanding what it is - to make apples and oranges taste equally good when their flavors can't be equated to one another.

A whole other debate, and an interesting one at that, would involve examining how much of the difference between the role of men and women is biological and unchangeable, and how much of it has been conditioned into us over generations.



If equality means not having people stand in your way when you try to shape your life into what you feel it should be, then that is valid. Although for some feminists equality means being entitled to something based solely on their gender, that is a corruption of the word's true meaning and of their professed ideals.

Women's rights aren't as black and white as a group trying to stake a claim in more than its fair share of power. It's a complex social phenomenon that I think no one really fully understands, and that includes its advocates.

For me personally, while I see the general aim of feminism to be admirable, some of its specific goals seem unfocused and/or unattainable. I have had my own experiences with feminists, good and bad, but I can't say they exemplify everyone who shares their ideology on the simple basis that I haven't met most self-proclaimed feminists to be able to generalize them.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

KanadaHye, I know next to nothing about Judaic beliefs, so I won't touch a subject I can't hold my ground on.

However, I will say this. The arguments used by part of a group does not mean that a whole group uses them, or that the message they are using a poor tool to communicate is invalid.

I've had more than my fair share of hostile encounters with radical feminists. Never encountered Talmudic principles before, or having encountered them never recognized them for what they are.

Flamenkita never evoked them. It's as senseless talking about Judaism in relation to her as it would be to compare Mos to Hitler, though both strongly embrace(d) nationalism. On the flip side, Aquinas used Natural Law to argue that animal suffering is meaningless, while Martin Luther King Jr. used the very same arguments to advocate black equality through logic.



Now, since you obviously evoked the Talmud's law as something that's negative, kindly explain as to why it is so.

It all depends on how you look at things. At some point in the last century, millions of people died fighting Communism which was essentially a system where everyone was a slave earning the same dollar figure filling the pockets of the elite. So now we have feminists and the likes preaching the same thing saying that everyone should be equal regardless of how much or little contribution they make to society. They don't realize that it's just a political movement to shift all power back over to the elite (by essentially taking it all away from men). Talmudic laws are logical if you're a J3w since they are the law makers and the elite. For everyone else....

[ADandelion]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Then Egypt blew up ... China will take some time. But for the rest of the world, who is going to go and flip all the switch on these routers? It won't happen. The people will NOT let it. Don't know if you saw what happened with SOPA and PIPA in the US recently but the backlash will be horrendous if anyone tried (they may try to sneak some things but they won't be able to do any big dents).

The Chinese are making a nice little dent in their firewall. I believe there was an Anon operation to facilitate one of those, though its validity and effectiveness is up for debate.

They're humble beginnings, but a population as massive and quickly developing as China's can't be held back for long when it doesn't want to be.

[ADandelion]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

KanadaHye, I know next to nothing about Judaic beliefs, so I won't touch a subject I can't hold my ground on.

However, I will say this. The arguments used by part of a group does not mean that a whole group uses them, or that the message they are using a poor tool to communicate is invalid.

I've had more than my fair share of hostile encounters with radical feminists. Never encountered Talmudic principles before, or having encountered them never recognized them for what they are.

Flamenkita never evoked them. It's as senseless talking about Judaism in relation to her as it would be to compare Mos to Hitler, though both strongly embrace(d) nationalism. On the flip side, Aquinas used Natural Law to argue that animal suffering is meaningless, while Martin Luther King Jr. used the very same arguments to advocate black equality through logic.



Now, since you obviously referenced the Talmud's law as something that's negative, kindly explain as to why it is so.

[Sip]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Nah, it's quite easy. They can either close down the routers which direct traffic over the border or go further down the chain and switch off routers at individual ISPs to prevent access for most users inside. They did it in Egypt, China, Burma, etc.

Then Egypt blew up ... China will take some time. But for the rest of the world, who is going to go and flip all the switch on these routers? It won't happen. The people will NOT let it. Don't know if you saw what happened with SOPA and PIPA in the US recently but the backlash will be horrendous if anyone tried (they may try to sneak some things but they won't be able to do any big dents).

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Nothing is absolute, and preaching an absolutist viewpoint turns an opinion into a caricature of itself.

Funny you bring that up since feminists like to preach Talmudic principles...

The Talmud's law incorporates two crucial principles:

Firstly, that every individual human life has absolute, not relative, value. One times absolute is just as absolute as 10,000 times absolute. Seventy years of absolute value is just as absolute as one year or one hour of absolute value.

The second, equally crucial principle is that there is a clear, absolute distinction between taking action to end a life and not taking that action, even if the "end result" is the same. To hand that person over to be killed is an act of murder. The argument "he's going to die anyway" has no bearing on the significance of the act, for this is an act of absolute moral significance.

[ADandelion]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Nothing is absolute, and preaching an absolutist viewpoint turns an opinion into a caricature of itself.

[Mos]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Actually, what is happening here is a microcosm of what is happening all through the Armenian communities. This is why we are devolving into a state of mediocrity at best, and why some of the best and brightest just prefer to cut their losses and stay the F away. As I said, all this exchange has done is to reinforce my disgust and disappointment in my people, and my pessimism for the future. My only hope is that maybe a tiny chink was made in someone's head so that he might question his unquestioned beliefs. As for me, I'm outa here because clearly, my input is not wanted. People don't want to hear anything that doesn't reinforce their narcissistic beliefs.

Sorry but people with such dangerous and anti-Armenian agendas as you deserve to be marginalised in Armenian society. We all here are patriots wanting the best for our nation and people, for our conservative culture and values to be maintained, so that we don't turn into some perverted Western European country, where ideals such as multi-culturalism has ruined any sense of national identity. Once we change the foundation of our nation, our nation can very easily crumble into something unrecognisable.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Nope .. there is no such switch on the internet. But I don't think there is such a thing as "free internet" ... as time goes on, the cost of transmitting a bit from any point on Earth to any other point on Earth will be approaching closer and closer to 0.

There are countries that try to block Internet and do to some extent. But there is no fool-proof way and their efforts won't last forever either as such suppression, oppression, and censorship aren't long term solutions to anything.

Nah, it's quite easy. They can either close down the routers which direct traffic over the border or go further down the chain and switch off routers at individual ISPs to prevent access for most users inside. They did it in Egypt, China, Burma, etc.

[Flamenkita]

Re: Armenian lesbians/gays

Nothing new here -everytime a inteligent woman comes into this forum the hetamnats guys run her out. I hate what the west has done to this world via materialism and zionism but i also acknowledge the progress it has made including womens rights. Some people wana stay in the past never realizing that even in the past things were never as messed up as their minds are today. People think women only had sex after marriage in the old days and that is just funny bs. In the old days people didnt have computers and tv so guess what they did when they had free time. The only way to keep women from having premaritalsex was to marry them off at 14 years of age and thats even more messed up today then it was back then. People tend to romantisize the past believing that somehow back then humanity had everyting figured out but the reality is that we are improving our lives over time as we humans learn more about the world we live in and about our ourselves.Culutre and religion evolve overtime these are not static things and evolution is key to survival in the natural as well as the cultural world. The more we try to hang on to a idealized past that never existed to begin with the further back we set our society. Change is the only constant so you might as well embrace it instead of fighting it and hurting those around you. Driving away women ensures that we have no future and driving away progress means we cannot even comprehend a future.

Actually, what is happening here is a microcosm of what is happening all through the Armenian communities. This is why we are devolving into a state of mediocrity at best, and why some of the best and brightest just prefer to cut their losses and stay the F away. As I said, all this exchange has done is to reinforce my disgust and disappointment in my people, and my pessimism for the future. My only hope is that maybe a tiny chink was made in someone's head so that he might question his unquestioned beliefs. As for me, I'm outa here because clearly, my input is not wanted. People don't want to hear anything that doesn't reinforce their narcissistic beliefs.