Films, Jews, Armenians....

[nimda]

The results speak for themselves.

To my knowledge, it's the Armenians sucking up to the Jews to get our cause recognized..and not the other way round.


And to get back to the topic, as long as a Turk can admit its nation's wrongdoings, and show some support for Armenians in our cause, I see no reason to hate him. I'll just appreciate him even more.

But please, don't expect me to "forgive" the Turks who are out there printing false history. I'm still waiting for their apology...

I have seen these three tapes:
Images of the Armenian Spirit
The Armenians: A Story of Survival
The Armenian Americans

the producer and director for all three is Andrew Goldberg

..... mmmm let's see, the most famous Armenian director has got to be Atom Egoyan. With 17million dollars, he decided to make a film that depicts a hippy looking Armenian guy having sex with a white lady. (don't know why tragedies should be associated with nudity and sex) .... can't remember a scene like that in Pianist.

[Darorinag]

Admin, what are you getting at? What are the 3 tapes about? Are you saying that Jews depict Armenians in a better light than Armenians do?

[Anonymouse]

Theres 3 different movies like that made.

[dusken]

I have seen these three tapes:
Images of the Armenian Spirit
The Armenians: A Story of Survival
The Armenian Americans

the producer and director for all three is Andrew Goldberg

..... mmmm let's see, the most famous Armenian director has got to be Atom Egoyan. With 17million dollars, he decided to make a film that depicts a hippy looking Armenian guy having sex with a white lady. (don't know why tragedies should be associated with nudity and sex) .... can't remember a scene like that in Pianist.

Admin:

This is ridiculous. Did you just compare the artistic brilliance of "Ararat" to the Hollywood trash of "The Pianist"? This is why we will go nowhere in terms of respect; the Armenians cannot even apprectiate their own people's artistic expression or anything they choose to do differently. Any attempt to push the art boulder and break new ground is frowned upon. What do you want film to do? You want our genocide to be depicted by shytty, formulaic Hollywood movies designed as political tools with the sole purpose of drawing empty sympathy out of people? Phuck that. I would like to be respected as people who deal with things artistically and cleverly and not fishers of cheap sympathy with tired cinematic tools.

This is what I wrote about Ararat...

Unfair criticism

This film has received much unfair criticism by incompetent critics working for all sorts of newspapers, magazines and websites. Incompetency is one. But it is also, most probably and in part, due to the fact that people don't care about the topic to begin with and would have criticized it no matter how it was told or made.

The fact of the matter is that Ararat is the most original, imaginative and well-made movie to date that deals with the topic of a holocaust, which ever one it may be (Armenian, Jewish, Native American, African, etc.). It deals with the topic but doesn't sacrifice the art. It's not made to be a tear-jerker. Most stories about such historical incidents prey on basic human emotions and vulnerabilities because the purpose of those films is simply to gain sympathy. Nothing more. There is no consideration for contribution to the world of artistic film. They are not movies that are intended to contribute to the evolution of art. They are movies that take old-fashioned "tools" that have worked for whatever purpose for the past 80 years, and employ them again for similar purposes. It seems people are threatened by the fact that this movie did not do that and happened to be dealing with a topic that the whole world has been avoiding.

It is an excellent film. The concept and structure are not as complicated as some critics say they are. Either they are incapable of comprehending anything beyond a formulaic Hollywood flick or they were dismissing it from the get go. Either way, they should not be film critics. Ararat has a very clever structure based on the perspectives of different generations. The acting was excellent from everyone, except for Aznavour who did a decent job of executing a simple role. They all did exactly what the job called for and were simply captivating. The cinematography was beautiful: all of the creative choices regarding how to film a given scene were perfect.

Like all of Atom Egoyan's films, it is very character driven, putting a lot of focus on the psychology of a character and the choices they make as a result. Though it is not Egoyan's "number one" in my book, it is an amazing movie and can say I am honored to have seen it in theaters and am proud to own it.

This is what another person, who is knowledgeable and who's opinion I respect, wrote about it (and I believe he is Jewish)....

Memory, History, Representation & other Fallacies of Genius

Egoyan's most accomplished piece is, I think necessarily, also his most acutely misinterpreted. The trouble for most viewers is that they cannot understand why he didn't take a more direct / balanced / serious approach to the history involved. What most people fail to understand is that, as in most of Egoyan's films, History is not something one can directly interact with. And, while Egoyan and his film have a strong sense of cultural and historical responsibility; the actual history takes a back seat to its representation and the ramifications of its perverted resurrection.

The point of distancing oneself from the material by producing filmic layers that at times seem even to mock the historical horror of the depicted events, is to illuminate indirectly the essential nature of history: namely that History and Memory are enframed [term and definition stolen from Martin Heidegger] by, not only an arbitrary series of collective definitions, but also within a framework of communal Being. History and Memory are revealed in this film as malleable constructs that differ only in socially acceptable notations of subjectivity.

One is collectively subjective [though not universal] and the other is defined by being individually subjective. History and Memory are representations of distorted fictions; distorted by their very nature as representations - much like cinema. Film / Memory / History these are interchangeably used to comment on each other in all of Egoyan's Films but Ararat achieves a level of genius only developmentally present in his other admittedly brilliant works.

I had the good fortune to hear Egoyan Speak at a screening of his film Family Viewing. He answered several questions about Ararat and I will only say that anyone posting here that believes Egoyan missed something and that they have some fantastic absolutist factory sealed definition of his failures in Art or Cultural Responsibility have sorely underestimated the man.

Take another look...and then another...this film is brilliant.

[dusken]

In addition, it is my opinion that the Jews will not be able to keep that sympathy for ever. People will get tired of it. They will get annoyed. Why? Because it is boring and people are not going to pay money to see the same exaggerated sob story over and over again. At least the intellectuals will not and that is what I care about. Let the Joe Schmos watch what the formulaic Jewish propaganda and let everyone with an educated opinion put the spotlight on Armenians and the like who can potentially rise above those cheap tears with art. The lifespan of art is much greater.

[Anonymouse]

I am tired of the non-stop Holocaust movies. We are constantly reminded and bombarded with film after film about the Holocaust. They should seriously have a Holocaust channel, since they have reaped billions off of the Holocaust, as Norman Finklestein in his book "The Holocaust Industry", has so aptly described.

I will probably get banned for this.

[loseyourname]

I think you guys pay too much attention to Hollywood. I certainly don't feel bombarded with anything other than beer commercials from watching too many sporting events.

By the way, you'll be banned in three hours. Enjoy the remainder of your time here on the AC Forums.

[violette829]

I don't think that the film makers were trying to bombard anyone with anything. The whole point of these types of films is to move people..which they do. I'm sure if your grandmother was a Holocaust survivor, it would hit closer to home and make you think otherwise. This is how I feel about the Armenian genocide. There are Armenians out there who, even without all the movies and books and teachings, are sick of hearing about the Armenian genocide. Even though I think those people should be stoned to death, they still make a valid point. Armenians will forever be known as the people from the genocide. "Oh, genocide Armenian...yes...I know who you people are"...Still, I don't think we can do enough to make people remember us always. I do agree with The Dusken about showing the real stories, rather than toying with peoples' emotions. I don't like movies that make me feel sympathy towards anyone....and I don't like pitty. Ararat was BEAUTIFUL!

[dusken]

Even though I think those people should be stoned to death, they still make a valid point.

This is good stuff right here.

[violette829]

This is good stuff right here.

I know you love me The Dusken!!!! What I meant to say was, even though I don't agree with them completely, they still make ONE valid point! KOS KHOL!!!!