Kerry???

[jilbagh]

ummm i know VERY well what i am talking about. The man who funded the ads, a wealthy home builder, Bob Perry, from Houston, Texas, is a close Bush friend and funded the same attack ads against John McCain. And those attacks come from people who weren't even on the same swiftboat as Kerry.

I have checked into it, The Washington Post, NY Times, LA Times, Boston Globe, Chicago Tribune, Miami Herald, MSNBC, CNN has checked it to....you need to check yourself son.

AGAIN read this article on MSNBC, without blinders on... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5771731/

It's funny how Bush will not condemn these false ads, yet wants an end to 527 ads...if that was the case, he should've pushed his party to support the original McCain-Fiengold campaign finance law...that is just as sad as these fabricated and false accustations agaisnt Sen. Kerry's service to his country.

[gevo]

I dont give a s hit what you talk about, what you say, but dont ever call me son again.
and i dont care what you meant or didnt mean by it.
as for kerry.. u seem to not know what i am referring to. ill make it clear later.

[jilbagh]

i know very well what you're referring too...and it's not a good thing when the people making the accusations dont even know what their refferring too....sad sad sad...i think surferarmo might be wanting you to join his force lol next please!

[gevo]

All info from:: http://www.nationalreview.com/docume...0405041615.asp

The Swift Boat Veterans for Truth released the following letter to John Kerry, signed by 189 fellow veterans of the Navy vessels featured so prominently in the senator's campaign ads

More of his "comrads" will soon join the list. And note the person responsible for writing this, te first signature at the bottom.

We write from our common heritage as veterans of duty aboard Swift Boats in the Vietnam War. Indeed, you should note that a substantial number of those men who served directly with you during your four month tour in Vietnam have signed this letter. It is our collective judgment that, upon your return from Vietnam, you grossly and knowingly distorted the conduct of the American soldiers, marines, sailors and airmen of that war (including a betrayal of many of us, without regard for the danger your actions caused us). Further, we believe that you have withheld and/or distorted material facts as to your own conduct in this war. We believe you continue this conduct today, albeit by changing from an anti-war to a "war hero" status. You now seek to clad yourself in the very medals that you disdainfully threw away in the early years of your political career. In the process, we believe you continue a deception as to your own conduct through such tactics as the disclosure of only carefully screened portions of your military records. Both then and now, we have concluded that you have deceived the public, and in the process have betrayed honorable men, to further your personal political goals. Your conduct is such as to raise substantive concerns as to your honesty and your ability to serve, as you currently seek, as Commander-in-Chief of the military services. It is vital that the American public have as much information as possible about candidates for President of the United States. In various ways, you have rightly called upon President Bush to be fully accountable and to provide full disclosure. In the same spirit, now that you are the presumptive nominee of your Party, we believe it is incumbent upon you to make your total military record open to the American people. Specifically, we the undersigned formally request that you authorize the Department of the Navy to independently release your military records (through your execution of Standard Form 180), complete and unaltered, including your military medical records. Further, we call upon you to correct the misconceptions your campaign seeks to create as to your conduct while in Vietnam. Permit the American public the opportunity to assess your military performance upon the record, and not upon campaign rhetoric. Senator Kerry, we were there. We know the truth. We have been silent long enough. The stakes are too great, not only for America in general but, most importantly, for those who have followed us into service in Iraq and Afghanistan. We call upon you to provide a full, accurate accounting of your conduct in Vietnam. Respectfully, Rear Admiral Roy Hoffmann, USN Captain Charley Plumly, USN (ret) Mr. Alvin A. Horne Mr. Bill Lannom Mr. John O'Neill Mr. Wey Symmes Mr. William W. Franke

This organization is not funded by Bushe's campaign, though it would have been nice for those against him if it was huh?
Info about Swift Both veterans

[gevo]

......And those attacks come from people who weren't even on the same swiftboat as Kerry.
.......

That not what i have read. Infact, only 2 comrads of his from the swift both are on his side, and not only the rest of the livingmembers of his swiftboat have signed and agreed to that letter, yet most of the people who served with him in at any time. But ofcourse all this he tries to hide under tha disguise of the fact that he is "all for veteran" and he is basing on a lot of their support to win this election. He is hiding his past in the bulsht promises he makes to the veterans about favoring them in financial situation.

[jilbagh]

That not what i have read. Infact, only 2 comrads of his from the swift both are on his side, and not only the rest of the livingmembers of his swiftboat have signed and agreed to that letter, yet most of the people who served with him in at any time.

You are wrong again, or at least your source is. if you watched the DNC convention you'd see that every living member on his swiftboat is supporting Kerry, and they took the stage with him, there are certainly more than 2.

They have come out supporting Kerry. In fact, most of the accusers fabricating the stories were not near Kerry's boat. And they too recieved purple hearts on the most of the same accounts that Kerry has. Are they lieing about lieing? Maybe they're just plain liars backed by wealthy Bush contributer Bob Perry.

I don't think it would be a good idea for you to continue reading and believing your sources, since they are apparently wrong. But believe what you want, just becareful on what might get you in trouble by going the way of the shameful.

[jilbagh]

btw...a Bush campaign worker was forced to resign because of his ties within the campaign and the decietful vets for truth that is rallying against a war hero....they should be downright ashamed.

[patlajan]

Mock the Vote ! 2004 go to www.atomfilms.com and watch their funny ass cartoons.

[jgm1975]

What really bothers me is that polls show that these ads were actually being effective with voters, which is why the Kerry campaign had to react. You think that after the incredibly negative campaigns of 1988 and those that followed voters would have some skepticism and have the reflex of not taking negative ads seriously. It seems that voters believe everything they hear on TV. What a sad testimony to the state of democracy in the 21st century. No wonder so many good people are not entering politics. They think that they can reason with voters, but then they realize that most voters have no reason.

[Anonymouse]

What really bothers me is that polls show that these ads were actually being effective with voters, which is why the Kerry campaign had to react. You think that after the incredibly negative campaigns of 1988 and those that followed voters would have some skepticism and have the reflex of not taking negative ads seriously. It seems that voters believe everything they hear on TV. What a sad testimony to the state of democracy in the 21st century. No wonder so many good people are not entering politics. They think that they can reason with voters, but then they realize that most voters have no reason.

Politics by the nature itself attracts the most base and ignoble among the masses. There is nothing about politics that will allow a good person to rise there. The highest political offices require the dirtiest of souls. The reason is because in order to rise in politics you must rise in your level of badness. That is why politicians are not honest, lack integrity, and are prostitutes for special interests. You cannot succeed in politics by honesty. Honesty is in work and fidelity to your principles, compromising them is not. In fact, lies are the ways systems are held. You need only read Machiavelli's The Prince to understand the odious nature of the way politics works. That is why I am suspect of idealistic naivity that suggests there is a 'lesser of the two evils' candidate.