Why?

[sleuth]

TTT thread !!

PS: I will be back

[Genuine_Stud]

Lol she didnt say it in those words. But the whole semester we talked about why we are human, what makes us human and divine. so what you wrote was just what we came up with at the end.

Haha..... very cool.

[sleuth]

Early to bed, early to rise, and so continue your life with the cyclic turns, for what purpose? Purpose is the needle which guides the compass of our life pointing to the north. Without purpose you have uncertainty. Whether we deny it, we live for a purpose. To have purpose, is to be certain of what one lives. Do we live merely being tied to the earth and nothing more? What is the reason that you wake up? If you answer that, what is the reason you go to school? Why do you work? Why do we seek to form bonds of love, family, and kinship? Is it simply to keep ourselves from getting bored? Is our purpose more practical than spiritual?

Have u ever heard of inertia??some ppl live by inertia, as saggal pointed out we do things to survive.We are a mystery unto ourselves. We act and do not know why we acted as we did.That's inertia that holds us firmly.

Evreything happens for some reason.Every practical occurrence can be used as an opportunity for spiritual and personal growth.(school,life threatening illness,wealth...yevaylan (Baron)). We don't know what we need for our personal and spiritual growth.(each persons' needs are individual,as is the rate of each persons growth).So i take practical accurrence as an opportunity to prove myself and SOMEONE, that i deserve to be a spiritual being.

As for me i live to make someone happy...

[xBaron Dants]

Hahahahahaha!

My "yevayln" has caught on!

Vay sleuth vay...

[patlajan]

I only know that I'm totally screwed no matter what.

[Crimson Glow]

You took it a little too far with your Matrix philosophy, and how everything is fake and we are in a prison. You missed the essence of my post. I am not inquiring whether or not we are robotic sheep trapped under the tyranny of a few who manipulate the Matrix, I am asking a simple question that goes to the heart of why we are here and what you believe.

Oh no, I didn't miss the essence of your post at all, sir. That question is what created my Matrix philosophy. Not being able to answer that question is why we have structured our lives and behaviors the way we have. I'm saying there is a direct correlation, which, if you think about it, makes perfect sense. Read on, and I'll explain.

However, the point of this thread was more geared to what is the purpose of all this running around? Why do we seek success, status, or even wealth and influence?

Once again, the purpose is a vein attempt to answer your above question of "why are we here". This is one of the routes man decided to take to numb our minds from the possibility that we simply will never be able to answer that question. Rather than living with this, we have tried our best through many different ways to create answers. That would again be our egos going to work, not being able to accept an "unanswered question". I think this Timothy Leary quote (which any Tool fan should be familiar with) sums it up:

"Throughout human history, as our species has faced the frightening,
terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are, or where we are going in
this ocean of chaos, it has been the authorities, the political, the
religious, the educational authorities who attempted to comfort us by
giving us order, rules, regulations, informing, forming in our minds their
view of reality. To think for yourself, you must question authority, and
learn how to put yourself in a state of vulnerable, open-mindedness;
chaotic, confused, vulnerability to inform yourself. Think for yourself. Question authority."

Is this really so hard to fathom, mousy? All of us have created one particular view of reality in our minds, and those views stem from the way we were raised, our surroundings, who we have come across, etc. Seldom do people think about the fact that there's more to the world than they'll ever see, than they'll ever know, or understand. There's more to the world than their own, tiny individual existence. We have created our views so that we may feel important, and to protect our egos from the insignificance or our tiny individual existence. "I'm important because my Mercedes is a model higher than yours", "I'm important because my I.Q. score says I'm above average in intelligence", "I'm important because I'm the leader of the most dangerous gang in east L.A.", "I'm important because I've reached a holier plateau than you, follow the 'right' religion, have saved lives, am in the upper class income bracket, have a nice family, have a great career, lots of sex/considered very hot, can drink you under the table....etc". It's all sustenance to feed our egos. Our egos are what have ironically created our prison, aka the Matrix. Religion likes to think it is above this because it detaches itself from worldly possessions, and "teaches humility". But religion in and of itself has a small flaw in my book, and that is it seeks to answer that question of why we are here, again, by stating its *opinion* that our existence, and everything we know of it, was created by a divine, spiritual, and almighty being, and that he is what we live for. That, to me, is still egotistical. The teachings that religions offer are fine, to me, but follow those teachings because you truly believe in them, religious, agnostic, or atheist, not because you "love" or "fear" god, or however you want to phrase the fact that you're only doing it to go to heaven and avoid hell.

That isn't to say we shouldn't question. Everything within us and without us ought to stir our minds to admiration and wonder for we are a mystery within mysteries. What can one point to that is not a mystery in someway? The simple connection of mind with matter is a mystery, as is the power of thought, as are memories and dreams which are indistinct echoes of dead memories, but question we shall.

Thank you for summing up the Matrix philosophy.

[Stark Evade]

Everything happens for some reason. Every practical occurrence can be used as an opportunity for spiritual and personal growth

Growth from occurences does not mean something happened for that reason.

[sleuth]

Growth from occurences does not mean something happened for that reason.

It depends from what perspetive you are scrutinizing accurences.For me everything happens for some reason( it makes my life easy),and as i said i use it as an apportunity for my personal and spiritual growth.


Do u really want me to get into this from philosophical perspective???

[Anonymouse]

Oh no, I didn't miss the essence of your post at all, sir. That question is what created my Matrix philosophy. Not being able to answer that question is why we have structured our lives and behaviors the way we have. I'm saying there is a direct correlation, which, if you think about it, makes perfect sense. Read on, and I'll explain.

Despite you claiming not to have missed the essence of my post, you have missed the essence of my post, for if you did not, you would not have veered off into the territory of the Matrix philosophy. You see, my thread did not concern itself with the Matrix philosophy, or the postmodern dictum of "there is no truth" and that we make up our own realities forming an illusion to hide what a horrible and meaningless place this is. No, that was not what my thread was about. My thread was about whether our pursuits in life are more practical or more spiritual, because if this world was a toiling blob of misanthropy then there would be no hope for anyone and we might as well all kill ourselves. But we do not, for we suffer, we survive and we struggle, but for what I ask. And I even asked why we seek to go to school, to work, or why some of us value fame, or status, or wealth, and then I went on to state that it is because we seek a more integrated wholeness and an ability to transcend our limited nature, by perhaps leaving behind a mark on the material world, in which way we can live beyond our material world, and in fact, seek more spiritual wholeness.

Once again, the purpose is a vein attempt to answer your above question of "why are we here".

If you read more carefully you would see I did not ask why we are here, but why do we pursue the paths we pursue? Is it because we are practical and have practical means for practical ends, or is it because we pursue practical ends thinking we are practical but our underlying reasons are more spiritual?

This is one of the routes man decided to take to numb our minds from the possibility that we simply will never be able to answer that question. Rather than living with this, we have tried our best through many different ways to create answers. That would again be our egos going to work, not being able to accept an "unanswered question". I think this Timothy Leary quote (which any Tool fan should be familiar with) sums it up:

"Throughout human history, as our species has faced the frightening,
terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are, or where we are going in
this ocean of chaos, it has been the authorities, the political, the
religious, the educational authorities who attempted to comfort us by
giving us order, rules, regulations, informing, forming in our minds their
view of reality. To think for yourself, you must question authority, and
learn how to put yourself in a state of vulnerable, open-mindedness;
chaotic, confused, vulnerability to inform yourself. Think for yourself. Question authority."

Is this really so hard to fathom, mousy? All of us have created one particular view of reality in our minds, and those views stem from the way we were raised, our surroundings, who we have come across, etc. Seldom do people think about the fact that there's more to the world than they'll ever see, than they'll ever know, or understand. There's more to the world than their own, tiny individual existence. We have created our views so that we may feel important, and to protect our egos from the insignificance or our tiny individual existence. "I'm important because my Mercedes is a model higher than yours", "I'm important because my I.Q. score says I'm above average in intelligence", "I'm important because I'm the leader of the most dangerous gang in east L.A.", "I'm important because I've reached a holier plateau than you, follow the 'right' religion, have saved lives, am in the upper class income bracket, have a nice family, have a great career, lots of sex/considered very hot, can drink you under the table....etc". It's all sustenance to feed our egos. Our egos are what have ironically created our prison, aka the Matrix. Religion likes to think it is above this because it detaches itself from worldly possessions, and "teaches humility". But religion in and of itself has a small flaw in my book, and that is it seeks to answer that question of why we are here, again, by stating its *opinion* that our existence, and everything we know of it, was created by a divine, spiritual, and almighty being, and that he is what we live for. That, to me, is still egotistical. The teachings that religions offer are fine, to me, but follow those teachings because you truly believe in them, religious, agnostic, or atheist, not because you "love" or "fear" god, or however you want to phrase the fact that you're only doing it to go to heaven and avoid hell.



Thank you for summing up the Matrix philosophy.

Quaint. You brought out your post modern Matrix philosophy of how we are all mindless sheep trying to keep ourselves busy from getting bored and making up our belief systems for the sake of feeling validated. As much as it might seem appealing to prescribe to the post modern dictum of "there is no truth", which you adhere to, and which in itself is contradictory, it is however, not the only philosophy that came out of the Matrix. Further, it makes the fallacy of assuming that only it knows what everyone else thinks or supposedly does, as in, whatever reasons underly our beliefs and actions are all created by us to make us feel secure. It explains everything, yet it explains nothing. And the very fact that I am now dismissing this, is by your standards and those who argue from your point of view, proof that I am in denial and am hopelessly dependent upon the lies I have woven to make myself comfortable. The same fallacies were committed by Marx and his bandwagon, and other nihilistic followers.

If all our time on earth and all our thoughts during that time were nothing more than made up ink blots of things to give us "comfort" and "security", and if the only thing there exists is mere worldly life, and, if like beasts of burden we direct all our thoughts to the material world, and never be startled by the stirring calls from heavens or God, as we plod in our earthly course, then maybe your vision would have some merit. And one thing you forgot to state about all religions and philosophies is that they teach us duty and to act our part well and fullfill the work assigned to us, because, this goes back to what we meant earlier about extending our limited sense of self and living beyond our lifetime through deeds and thoughts, for when one dies, the only thing people remember is if they lived well and what kind of person they were.

Despite you quoting Timothy Leary, and how he paints a wonderful picture of what a horrible place this life is, it is not a prison, nor a place of ease, but rather of discipline. As Genuine Stud earlier said, it is for moral and spiritual training, in the conditions we face, and in the lessons we acquire from those conditions. Despite such an ominous outlook which you present, I nonetheless commend your ability to explore the mines of wisdom, but let's not veer off too deep into the rabbit hole. My thread did not delve into the Matrix philosophy, for it already accepted apriori objective truths and an objective reality, which you make it out to be a subjective hell hole. As long as our objective world exists, and honor and virtue are esteemed, there will be ambition and emulation in the most accomplished persons in it. If that were not so, then we would sink into more barbarity and vice than we already suiffer under.

One thing I have noticed about your constant jammering with your Matrix philosophy, is that it is very nihilistic, taking away the pillars of humanity, such as hope, honor, and faith, and bending them all to the common denominator of "there is no truth" because we make it all up. The last post confirmed it for me. It's a serious thing to belie a whole world and to speak of it as the abode of a toiling and drudging place, where all we do is create supposed beliefs to keep us comfortable. You would not so easily discredit your family, your friends, your country, your culture, would you? The world is not a wretched place, nor a misfortune, but a thing to be thankful for. We might lose the due sense of its invisible blessings, but it doesn't mean it does not exist. There is no sympathy for those who profess to have figured out the key to life and found it little worth, and made up their minds that it is a miserable place, because the things we ogften endure are tedious, hearts broken, friendships lost, loved ones dead, etc. To look at our world as a miserable place, fit only for scorn, and consider it a prison "for our mind" as the Matrix would have us believe, is to strike down faith, hope, and happiness from huamnity. If that is indeed the way see it, then it matters not what else is true or not, and it doesn't even matter if you post about it, for we are all already buried in the ruins of misanthropy, and despair.

As far as Leary stating to "question authority", what more does he expect? As an anarchist, I have perhaps questioned more earthly authority than you, as a former atheist I have questioned former spiritual authority as well. I don't believe it get's any more extreme than that.

[loseyourname]

However, it wasn't so much of a religious question, as it is a question more geared to assess what drives us more, practicality, or spirituality.

I'd have to say, as a matter of deduction, that all action comes down to spiritual concerns. That isn't to say that one cannot perform any function out of purely practical concerns, but I will group these functions as reactions, not actions. Given that instinctual functions (which are purely practical) are about the same across the board, it is non-instinctual functions that serve to create us as individual subjects of experience. Non-instinctual functions, or actions, thus serve the purposes of subjective experience, not of practicality. It could be argued that whatever shaped humans and other conscious organisms so as to operate in this manner did so out of practicality, but I'll ignore that for now. On an individual basis, ignoring our roles in the context of an ecosystem, action serves a spiritual purpose. To clarify, I will say that this statement should not be read in a religious context. I mean only that our actions serve primarily to create a certain feeling that we can only experience as subjective beings, and this feeling is not practical. We could live without it.