Tweet
Or if you look at it as an unwillingness, due to apathy, to do the hard work necessary to maintain a healthy body.
-
-
I don't know, but I've never had much to full fill for me, so I'm content.Achkerov kute.Comment
-
I'm the same way. I try my best to be ambitious, but I'm happy with almost nothing.Comment
-
Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.
Sir Winston Churchill (1874 - 1965), Hansard, November 11, 1947
Regardless of its deficiencies - in the US and in general the above statement is still true. Yes ideally there would be no need for government at all - no need for representative government - and so on and so forth - but reality and ideals will never meet - so we must make the best of things with what we've got - and certain compromises and acceptance of less then ideal are just part of the program. And to just cling to the libertarian ideal (and blast away at easy targets..) - with no real implementable solution in mind (beyond - i don''t know - "kill them all" - and this is really what I get out of mouse's possition ultimatly) - well does no-one any good. Sure - very much about our governement - governments in general etc etc - really sucks...but please lay out a better workable alternative...if its revolution - what beyond the "kill them all" phase leaves us in a better place? I'm all ears. In the meantime we work with what we got - and be thankful its not worse then it is.
And yes - I always vote - but like louseyourname I tend to vote 3rd party candidates (and have never voted for a major party candidate for President) - yes - you are voting for someone to represent YOU - your views etc - well as best is possible..and sometimes you are not given a choice (with our system where the 2 major parties have basically hijacked the government). But elections - though still important (do influence some accountablility) are not the do all and end all of "Democracy in action" as it were. There are a great many ways to participate and make your voice heard and to act not just in ones own self interest (exclusively) per se...but to act toward the greater good - of the nation, your state, city, community and so forth. For instance I have participated in various citizens advisory groups, citizens associations and have done volunteer work in various capacities - these are all elements of a successful Democracy. And again - Democracies and the pandering that comes with elections etc - has its many faults...but I still don;t see a better viable alternative nor one which I would prefer to live in. And remember we can always vote the bastards out! It is possible. We don't need to vote for the party candidates (specifically and in general). I'm not holding my breath here - don't worry - but it is important that it is theoretically possible - and that at least on a specific basis - your representative knows he has to produce to some degree - and can't totally ignore the fact that he/she is in the office at our behest. And this can definitly be a powerful thing. So yes - by all means vote! Its the very least you can do...
Oh and for some other quotes concernign Democracy - including some that are negative (mostly from the libertarian perspective):
and (perhaps a bit more balanced):
And as an aside - I find it quite amusing that many (Armenians) critisize Turkey for not being democratic etc etc - yet fail to value/appreciate and act a part of our own Democracy....Comment
-
Mouse since you are so against Government in general - as a territorial monopoly of force etc (and consider taxation aggresion and theft) then i suggest that you do your best to stay off of paved roads, pay for your own education (K-12), deliver your own mail, rescure your own self when the Earthquake or Hurricane strikes, grab a gun and start shooting (when the "gang" (or whomever) with their guns decides they want whats yours etc - as boy - the way I see you - you sure are some big freeloader!
And while your at it - why don't you start putting aside to fund basic scientific and medical research (and don't tell me the corporations do this on their own - yeah right - if it doesn't help the bottom line this quarter...yup...etc)...and while your at it perhaps you can get out there and start cleaning up all the various pollution that your beloved corporations have made...yeah - like without rules/restrictions these guys would have any motivation at all to not belch and dump into your air and groud etc
Get busy now.Comment
-
Very interesting.Originally posted by Anonymouse
Anon, for whatever it's worth, this is just a general observation on my part. You somehow remind me of the coyote in the classic roadrunner cartoons. Although you display amazing intelligence and creativity at times, as demonstrated here you tend to scrap a very promising plan in chase of something completely new and untested.
Just because current democratic implementations have flaws, it doesn't necessarily mean one should abandon them (for anarchy non the less!). Spend some time, fix that contraption, and you may just catch that roadrunner next time around.
this post = teh win.Comment
-
Originally posted by winoman
Well, the pretentious god of wisdom Thoth has decided to come from the other forum and finally make his debut entrance. (*Alfred Hitchxxxx theme song playing*).
You see, Mr. Almighty God of Wisdom on another internet forum, there are several things wrong with this characterization above, and calling me a free loader is one of them, for you obviously ignored the quote I included by Gene Callahan. Even if I wish to not partake in this madness called "election", I still have to pay the taxes, and agree to every whim the State imposes, because of its inherent aggression. I have no choice. Either way I get the end of the gun. But you chose to ignore this, whether intentionally or unintentionally. Thus this point you tried to make is made moot.
As far as paved roads, or mail, etc., this is one of the many fallacies ignorant slobs like you put forth as the "great need" for government. You see, the government, in its infinite wisdom has monopolized essential things such as roads, mail, hospitals, even the law, to always make sure that only it can be needed when it comes to these, and has outlawed competition in these areas that are deemed "public goods". The examples you bring forth as the "great need" to have government are fallacious, and I do not need to get into Murray Rothbards destruction of "public good theory". Like I said, this was an argument for or not for voting, not for the need or lack of government.
This is, yet another, Thoth, or in this case Whino blunder. You see, once again, you assume that only government with its "selfless" public servants are responsible for all the breakthroughs. As much as I did not want to make this thread a discussion on government and economics, nerfbrains like you leave me no choice.Originally posted by winoman
Here is what Gary North lists as the blessings we can ascribe to Capitalism, not the State.
-----------------------------------------------------
HEALTH
Anesthetics (post-1843).
Dentistry.
Infant mortality is low. Children usually bury their parents. Two centuries ago, the mortality rate was 50%, except in North America: half would die before adulthood.
We are approaching age 80 as the life expectancy at birth.
Women live longer than men, but life expectancy for both sexes is rising.
Medical technology for operations is improving constantly.
We can still select our own physicians in the United States.
Alternative health care is plentiful.
Soap is cheap.
Refrigeration is cheap. Food doesn’t spoil.
Food is cheap, especially the basics that keep us alive.
Famines don’t happen, except in war-torn sub-Sahara Africa.
WEALTH
Economic growth means that we can accomplish more with whatever amount of money or assets that we possess.
Economic growth compounds in the West at about 2.5% per annum. At 2.5%, wealth doubles every 29 years. Over a 250-year period, this means over a 250-fold increase. Then, 29 years later, a 500-fold increase. Then, 29 years later, a 1000-fold increase. Wealth gets big, fast, as time passes.
We live better than our parents did. They lived better than their parents did.
As more societies adopt capitalism, the division of labor increases, increasing productivity.
The whole world is now adopting capitalism.
People can remain productive longer than ever before.
Tools make our work either easier or more productive.
COMMUNICATIONS
Phone calls are cheap, and getting cheaper. On the Web, they are free.
Email is free.
Computers talk to each other cheap, lowering all costs.
Cell phones are almost universal. This took 15 years.
The Internet lets anyone become a publisher.
The Web is a 4 billion-page free encyclopedia.
Google lets us find what we are looking for (usually).
Politicians can’t hide anything for very long.
Political resistance is cheaper than ever.
EDUCATION
Private education is spreading: home schools, day schools.
CD-ROM technology lets anyone become a curriculum publisher.
Library catalogues are easily accessed by anyone on-line.
Walk into any university library, free, and access all the books in the library, plus the college-students-only Internet library of journals, which is huge. In 1850, a large college library was 20,000 books. A typical university library today is 500,000 volumes. Harvard has 13 million.
The Web makes distance education easy, which makes earning a college degree much cheaper.
The Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) has put its courses on-line, free of charge. This is the wave of the future.
Books are cheap and available everywhere, including Amazon.
Publications are highly specialized, for every profession.
English is becoming the world’s second language. English is the premier language of business, finance, and scholarship. This is great for consumers who speak English.
TRANSPORTATION
Plane fares keep falling as competition increases.
Cars are universal. Poor people can afford used cars.
The highway system is huge.
U-Haul and its competitors have wiped out the moving van oligopoly.
People can afford to move to places with greater opportunity.
The cost of delivering goods is falling. This lowers prices: the Wal-Mart phenomenon.
HOUSING
More square feet per home each generation.
Separate bedrooms are universal.
Indoor plumbing is universal.
Mortgages are common: wider home ownership.
Bug-free housing, almost.
Heating with fuel makes wood-chopping obsolete.
Air conditioning has made Phoenix larger than Philadelphia.
Mass production of housing has made suburbs possible: housing comfort available only to the rich in 1850. Most people have a lawn and flowers: the unfulfilled dream of slum dwellers, which were most people, in 1850.
UTILITIES
Electricity has delivered most of us from physically hard labor.
Clean water is cheap and abundant.
Water-spread diseases have disappeared.
Population growth is now possible.
WORK
Human labor is the most versatile factor of production. The problem has been to finance specialization.
Specialization today is extensive and increasing through capital investment. Each person can match his skills with consumer demand. Each person can thereby increase his output.
Guilds are limited mainly to the professions. Just about anyone can get the training he needs to enter any occupation that he has the skills to perform.
Entry-level jobs are plentiful.
Unemployment is low, especially for married men. If you want to work, there is a job.
Crummy jobs are stepping stones, not brick walls.
There is demand for work done well, on time, at the price agreed on.
Racial discrimination can be offset by the willingness to work cheaper, faster, and better.
Thrift is constantly providing new tools.
New tools increase workers’ production.
Air conditioning makes siesta societies more productive.
Electric lights make the work day longer for businesses but shorter for workers: Henry Ford’s 8-hour shifts, 3 shifts/day.
Wages rise when opportunities increase.
OPPORTUNITY
Americans live by eight words:
Live and let live.
Let’s make a deal.
It is still possible for anyone to start a small business in one day in the United States.
It is still possible to get rich by running your own business.
The number of new businesses started each year is rising.
Most of them will fail, but most of their owners will start another one.
Discrimination is falling because opportunities to serve consumers is increasing. Everyone is looking for a better deal, which was once called the Jewish brother-in-law deal, itself testifying to opportunities for minority groups.
COMPUTERS
Word processing eliminates erasers, and a lot of fear of making a mistake.
Quicken lets us keep track of where our money goes.
Quick Books lets us run a medium-size business, or even larger. It costs $200.
Spreadsheets make possible work that only Harvard Business School types could do in 1975. (VisiCalc was invented for the Apple I computer by a Harvard Business School student, who needed a way to speed up classroom calculations.)
Data base programs let small businesses compete. Order Desk Pro let my secretary run a $500,000 a year non-profit publishing organization in 1995 that had cost $250 a month to hire a specialist to run in 1985. Order Desk Pro cost under $300 at the time.
Computer games amuse millions of people.
ENTERTAINMENT
Stereos are cheap. So are CD’s. So are downloaded music files.
We can listen to music that only the rich could afford to hear a century ago. We can listen at any time, day or night.
Television amuses us.
Cable and satellite channels have broken the network oligopoly. The networks are losing market share.
We can watch old movies any time.
A video player that cost $1,000 in 1980 – $2,000 in today’s money – costs under $80.
A 6-hour videotape that cost $20 in 1980 – $40 in today’s money – costs under $1.
We can shoot cheap videos of our children. We and they will not forget. (But there will be more videos of the first child.)
EVERY MAN A KING
What did a powerful king have in 1700 that you don’t have? (I don’t mean syphilis.)
What can you buy that a king would have paid half his kingdom to buy? (See the first entry, above.)
New, expensive products for the rich find new markets.
Price competition then widens the market for successful products.
Price competition creates mass markets for a product line.
Then product improvement creates specialized niche markets.
Opportunities increase.
The lifestyle of the very rich, except for three things, is essentially the same as the lifestyle of the middle class. The exceptions are: (1) full-time employees to run errands and wait on them; (2) enough land to keep their homes invisible to the public; (3) no personal debt.Achkerov kute.Comment
-
It's eery that you were able to know that I am so much like the Coyote, who is in fact one of my most favorite and cherished characters from the olden days of yore when cartoons roamed my days. However, I must disagree with you Mr. Seapahn. The question our own two major parties always ask is whether one prefers Democrats or Republicans? It’s a loaded question. The voter isn’t allowed to reject the shared premises of the two big government parties. The myth of democracy requires the voters to be assured that they are making real choices. It won’t do to admit that the choices that count have already been made for them.Originally posted by SeapahnVery interesting.
Anon, for whatever it's worth, this is just a general observation on my part. You somehow remind me of the coyote in the classic roadrunner cartoons. Although you display amazing intelligence and creativity at times, as demonstrated here you tend to scrap a very promising plan in chase of something completely new and untested.
Just because current democratic implementations have flaws, it doesn't necessarily mean one should abandon them (for anarchy non the less!). Spend some time, fix that contraption, and you may just catch that roadrunner next time around.Achkerov kute.Comment
-
I never claimed that the private sector or Capitalism was a bad thing per se - and I certainly appreciate all the advances and the life here in the West etc etc - its you who are decrying our system wholesale - seemingly - (and yeah right - as if you are paying any taxes....). And as usual you essentialy avoid the issues and change the subject to again spout off your libertarian position - which is all well and good - but it also exposes that you in fact have very little experience with or understanding of reality - of how and why things happen in the real world - and what might and might not be possible or even desireable. While I share the libertarian ideal - it is clear to me that it is impractical (as any ideal is) for (unbridaled) application in the real world. As is anything taken to extreme - so we make comprimises - less then ideal - but practical and necessary.
Yes - government is an easy target - and there are abuses and gross inefficiencies...and obviously it needs to be made better - and in many cases there are processes in place that are doing this (with mixed success certainly - but its something) - to some extent you just accept that nothing is perfect. And yes - less goverment is better where at all practical - I agree - and the private sector certainly can and does many things better...but unbridaled/unchecked - the abuses in the private sector would be as great or greater then with Government (and we have seen many examples of this....its not only in Government where liars, cheats and greedy crooks reside). And the private sector lacks the same system of accountability (as a more or less Democratic Government has in place) - what there is - is keyed to the bottom line of making money (or seeming to at any rate) - and tends to be short term (by choice - at least with most companies here in the states - and as a byproduct of how corporate fidicuary responsibility has been/is ussually interpreted [a real problem IMO] - so yeah to me all these lawyers are the problem...lol). Anyway - OK - so there are abuses and waste and such with Government - and Government power is downright frightening - OK - yes - but in theory - The US Government - and its actors - even at the highest level - are not above the law - and there are systems of and processes for accountability - not perfect - obviously - but certainly also efective in many areas (and voting is key to this...even with limited choices...you still can have an impact by voting some smuck out and putting the fear of such into others...). And to suggest that there is a problem with Goverments making laws..well - a bit naive I think - I mean even in tribal cultures the chief or such - and whoever else is involved - makes/enforces the "laws" of the community..etc etc (and I'd love to see your recommendation for making this one better - I really don't think the average person has time to be deliberating such ad nasuem [if you were to propose that we all "make the laws" or such?]- and most (of your capitalist buddies) are too busy out making money to be bothered - seems like you would be proposing what will amount to a real productivity loss..)....and our Government is representative...could it be better (much?) - yes certainly. But again - I'm awaiting your (realistic) alternative.Comment
-
Oh and rat - in regards to your list...to claim that all of these things can be ascribed stricly to the private sector - well your mr North is just plain wrong in a large number of these citations. I urge readers to look over the list - and in a great many case you can see where Government funding and involvement were critical (but of course...this should be obvious - its not all one or the other - except in rats little insular pretend world)...
Oh and I see a claim regarding the highway system...well i do know of a handful of private roads in this country...but as far as PUBLIC transportaion is concerned - well its pretty much been all Government....but yes - the asphalt layers do tend to work for private companies that the Government contracts with - etc etc - as in many areas. Even medical research and in most all scientific areas...Government has been and is a great catalyst. And you also mention clean water and such - well who to thank for that eh? And in this case - and in so many more - it is Government regulations that ensure the standards - that set guidlines - for like - poilluting the air and water - that if they were not set - we wouldn't at all have even the level of (reletively) clean air and water that we have in this country....etc etc etcComment
Comment