A Rational Choice For November 2nd

[Anonymouse]

Arman, de mihat shunch kashi.. ......... apress.. mikichel jur xemi... etkan gerem ke vatanam ara.. gena durs u mekin tsetsi,,, kam vochinch miara, bayts gen durs!!!.. shat haves unes mek mek bayts.. yernek kezi...HAHAHA.....

Haves chunenayi, karogha nunechkayin etkan nervaynatsneyi? Haves unem, vor anum em. hahaha.

[XxgoeyxX]

HAHAHAHA Would you guys mind if i laugh a little bit.. this is all very funny!!! ... Nunechka.... welcome to THE forums..

Silly she has been around for a while now. Where were you?????..when they were battling it out in another thread. And I must agree....my saddness with them fighting/arguing (whatever you call it)... has turned into humor. Butttt......I just dont want them to fight....

[nunechka]

anonymouse jan, yes cheyi imanum vor etkan haves eyr staum indz nervaynatsneluts, bayts izur teghe indz het mi viji... gevon jishta asum, hangstatsi mi kitch, indzi aseyr, yes kegay ays ereko, kez kevertsney u menk ketaynk kino...

you are so serious, i think sometimes you are blowing up... the reason why i said you dont read it before commenting is because when i would read some of your comments, you were going off on a tangent and you would start talking about another subject that i never talked about...

look you not voting, is not effective, because you are just one person... i dont understand how i am unethical? i will never understand that, because i dont know why it is unethical to expect to have rights and freedom of choice, etc... but to get these rights in any society we must all agree on certain things... but if some people are crazy or sick or if they do inhumane things like kill or rob people, well we must all agree that we need laws to be put in place for those of us in society who arent as smart as anonymouse, or me, or gohar, or gevo, etc... some people must see that it is a law... i dont need a law to tell me that i shouldnt kill people, i know that already, and so do you all... but for some reason there are murdurers, and thievs, other sorts of criminals, so we as a mass as a larger society need to stop those people from hurting our freedoms...

i would never want to hurt them (criminals), but if they have a psychological disorder and they want to kill people or they have a compulsive disorder and they must go around robbing people, well they arent in the correct state of mind to make any logical thought, and hence do what you think they can do, which is to function on their own...

what we would have is a form of society, where people like myself who are physically weaker, and financially not powerful be placed in harms way if we dont stop those few people who are insane...

anonymouse jan, your idea is nobal and brave, it just isnt practical for our planet... there is no place in this world that doesnt have a killer, there is no place in this world that there arent those who take advantage of anything they possibly can, like people in higher office of governemnt...

so i agree there is a problem... but i dont think you offer a solution, and as strange as it may seem, i have been thinking about it today the whole day, and i have come to the conclusion that it just isnt practical... it is idealistic to think that this can actually work, considering all the different types of people, with different needs living in one coutnry...

even i armenia, that tiny little coutnry with a maximun population of 3 mill has over 100 political parties, and they all disagree with each other, and they alll hate each other, etc...

can i also put "hahaha" at the end of my post? i guess i can...

hahaha

[hyebruin]

you guys are just too funny! sometimes it's good to get out and get some nice fresh air! ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh --inhale, exhale, inhale, exhale, in, out, in out, in out, in out, in out, in out.....that's what posting (and other things) is alll about

[Anonymouse]

anonymouse jan, yes cheyi imanum vor etkan haves eyr staum indz nervaynatsneluts, bayts izur teghe indz het mi viji... gevon jishta asum, hangstatsi mi kitch, indzi aseyr, yes kegay ays ereko, kez kevertsney u menk ketaynk kino...

you are so serious, i think sometimes you are blowing up... the reason why i said you dont read it before commenting is because when i would read some of your comments, you were going off on a tangent and you would start talking about another subject that i never talked about...

look you not voting, is not effective, because you are just one person... i dont understand how i am unethical? i will never understand that, because i dont know why it is unethical to expect to have rights and freedom of choice, etc... but to get these rights in any society we must all agree on certain things... but if some people are crazy or sick or if they do inhumane things like kill or rob people, well we must all agree that we need laws to be put in place for those of us in society who arent as smart as anonymouse, or me, or gohar, or gevo, etc... some people must see that it is a law... i dont need a law to tell me that i shouldnt kill people, i know that already, and so do you all... but for some reason there are murdurers, and thievs, other sorts of criminals, so we as a mass as a larger society need to stop those people from hurting our freedoms...

i would never want to hurt them (criminals), but if they have a psychological disorder and they want to kill people or they have a compulsive disorder and they must go around robbing people, well they arent in the correct state of mind to make any logical thought, and hence do what you think they can do, which is to function on their own...

what we would have is a form of society, where people like myself who are physically weaker, and financially not powerful be placed in harms way if we dont stop those few people who are insane...

anonymouse jan, your idea is nobal and brave, it just isnt practical for our planet... there is no place in this world that doesnt have a killer, there is no place in this world that there arent those who take advantage of anything they possibly can, like people in higher office of governemnt...

so i agree there is a problem... but i dont think you offer a solution, and as strange as it may seem, i have been thinking about it today the whole day, and i have come to the conclusion that it just isnt practical... it is idealistic to think that this can actually work, considering all the different types of people, with different needs living in one coutnry...

even i armenia, that tiny little coutnry with a maximun population of 3 mill has over 100 political parties, and they all disagree with each other, and they alll hate each other, etc...

can i also put "hahaha" at the end of my post? i guess i can...

hahaha

As an anarchist I do offer a solution. You just reject it because you do not want to think for yourself. You would rather be told what to do and tell others what to do, because as soon as people leave their comfortable spheres of thought. What I propose is practical. "you don't offer a solution."

A solution of what? This is somewhat like constantly changing channels when there is nothing good on. It's all the same old crap...you keep channel-surfing getting nowhere while the answer is obvious: turn off the television and live your own life, instead of trying to figure out a better "system" of who shall control whom. Private property and individuals are not ideal, what is ideal is the collectivism you espouse. Here is what Butler Shaffer has to say.

My Property class had spent a good deal of time exploring how the inviolability of property boundaries is the only way to maintain both a free and peaceful society; and how the violence, discord, and other forms of social conflict in our world are all consequences of the failure to respect one another’s claims of ownership. "Property," I suggested to my students, is not a social invention or an ideological preference, but the most basic fact of existence, applicable to all forms of life. The only question is, at least in a human setting, whether property is to be owned and controlled by individuals, or by state collectives.

One of my students asked the inevitable question: "isn’t a self-owning, self-directed life utopian?" "What do you mean by utopian?", I responded. "An ideal system that can’t work in the real world," he replied. "If it can’t work in reality," I inquired, "how can it be ideal?"

I went on to explain how every living thing must occupy space and must consume some portion of its environment – all to the exclusion of every other person or thing in the world – in order to survive. While we benefit greatly from cooperating with, sharing, and loving others, all of life comes down to an individualistic experience. We are born, live, and die as individuals; only the individual transports the species from one generation to the next.

It is collectivism that is the unrealistic expression of utopian belief systems. In its worst form – the state – collectivism is the institutionalized exertion of violence to compel living beings to behave contrary to their natural self-interest inclinations. So strong are the motivations for individual preferences that the state must resort to attacks upon the very nature of life to satisfy the ambitions of those who see others as nothing more than resources to be exploited for such ends.

The state – whatever its particular forms – always expresses itself as a collective form of property ownership. All political systems are socialistic, in that they are premised upon the subservience of individual interests to collective authority. Communism, fascism, lesser forms of state socialism, and welfarism, are all premised upon the state’s usurpation of privately-owned property. Whether one chooses to be aligned with the political "Left," "Right," or "Middle," comes down to nothing more than a preference for a particular franchise of state socialism.

[patlajan]

Never ending paragraphs. Now that's anarchy.

[nunechka]

anonymouse, hangstatsar aziz jan?

[Anonymouse]

anonymouse, hangstatsar aziz jan?

Yes misht el hangist em. Kezi tvuma vor anhangist em. bayts mi gutse anhangstutyuna du unes vor dra masin khosum es? haha

It is precisely the analytical and critical thinking that you were rambling about earlier, which people, including yourself, lacks. If individuals can achieve strong analytical and critical thinking, then the system will cease to exist. But that is not how it goes, because of fear people just "let it be". It's what the psychoanalysts referred to as the 'transference object', in which people transfer their fear to some other entity, in this case the State system.

It is because of fear, both from ourselves and others that we don't question. We have been institutionally trained to distrust our capacities to lead self directed lives. That is one of the things the State is excellent in doing. We distrust ourselves to lead self-directed lives yet trust the most morally depraved people called politicians to do that exact same thing for us. So to sum it up, we have confidence in the judgements of the institutional leaders, but we do not have confidence in our own. This only comes from growing up fearing our sense of responsibility. As Epictetus said, "It is a man’s own judgments which disturb him." The state is as eager to relieve us of this sense of disturbance as most of us are eager to give it up.

[nunechka]

i see what you are saying... i agree that if we all had that capability, we would not need the state to exist, but the reality isnt with you on this one... there are too many stupid people... you are offering an idealistic view on this...
80% of the population of the US is stupid.. in armenia there is a 95% literacy rate, meaning most armenians are capable of reading, math, science, etc... they are a very smart bunch of people, but is armenia a good place to live? no, the water system suck @ss and you know the rest... armenians in general are much smarter then most people for the pure fact of the amount of the population versus the amount of people with education and knowledge, but armenia is not doing too good, people are dieing of starvation...
its you who doesnt think very much... you think everyone is like you... but they are simply NOT like you...

anony do you like waking up in the morning and having your computer? your food, your house, etc? well in armenia that is not how people live, even though we have a generally smarter population, a really thinking kind of people, we dont have the kind of idealistic country that you are convinced would exist if people were smart...

you have to start from reality, then come up with viable solutions... your solution is impracticle and unrealistic for the position our world is in today...

[Anonymouse]

i see what you are saying... i agree that if we all had that capability, we would not need the state to exist, but the reality isnt with you on this one... there are too many stupid people... you are offering an idealistic view on this...

How are individuals and private property rights idealistic? Again, I ask the question. Are you somehow saying people are not capable of self-directed lives? Idealistic is precisely in the earthly utopia you believe in, in the form of collectivism, and Statism. I never argued for idealism, you have. So beacuse some people are less intelligent, they need to be coerced? You are just confirming that you believe in aggression/coercion of individuals.

80% of the population of the US is stupid.. in armenia there is a 95% literacy rate, meaning most armenians are capable of reading, math, science, etc... they are a very smart bunch of people, but is armenia a good place to live? no, the water system suck @ss and you know the rest... armenians in general are much smarter then most people for the pure fact of the amount of the population versus the amount of people with education and knowledge, but armenia is not doing too good, people are dieing of starvation...

You are approaching the problem from the wrong premise. Literacy or "smart bunch" has nothing to do with dependency on the State. The reason Armenia is so backward right now, is precisely because of its unhallowed belief in the State system in the form of socialism for 70 plus years, which is enough to drive any country into backwardness.

its you who doesnt think very much... you think everyone is like you... but they are simply NOT like you...

That is untrue.

anony do you like waking up in the morning and having your computer? your food, your house, etc? well in armenia that is not how people live, even though we have a generally smarter population, a really thinking kind of people, we dont have the kind of idealistic country that you are convinced would exist if people were smart...

Don't you think I know how people in Armenia live? Why do you keep running back to this same old tactic of mentioning how horrible Armenia is, and how only you would know. As far as my views, it is not idealism. How is leading a self-directed life, idealistic? You need to tell me. Are you not leading a self-directed life? Can other people not lead a self-directed life? The whole free market system and capitalism is based on this idea. A collectivist life under Statism is idealism. That is precisely what Soviet Socialism was about, precisely, what any form of social democracy is about, and precisely why Armenia is backward today. You need to get with the times, because such views are reflective of the economic ignorance of most people.

you have to start from reality, then come up with viable solutions... your solution is impracticle and unrealistic for the position our world is in today...

Reality says collectivism doesn't work. It is you who needs to drop your unhallowed egalitarian fiction, and collective mass mindedness. You have demonstrated once again that you do not understand anything I have mentioned and instead keep parroting "it is unrealistic" or "impracticle" because it is easier to do so, than to actually think for yourself. You keep mentioning of "solutions" or "viable", in which you only mean another system that is alternative to this. I already answered your question. What other system do you want? All you are asking for is another system of who shall control whom. You seem to like that idea of controlling, like most people, because you fear the unknown, and the unknown is having control over your own life. Perhaps before worrying about what systems shall control whom, you should worry about yourself, before telling other people what to do.