The Almighty Dollar Falls

[nunechka]

thai when have i said or implied that i hate freedom??? i love freedom... if we truly had freedom in the market we would NOT have lobbying groups pushing their agenda which tends to limit our freedom...

i guess i dont see how or what i said that could leed you to think that i "hate freedom"

which BTW sounds like something bush would say... because it is obvious that the words "freedom" are frequently used to give illusions to the truth of the problem... AND i NEVER used the word freedom before, because it is inaffective and adds "fluff" to the so called arguement that someone would ACTUALLY hate freedom...

that is pure anti-intellectualism

[Thai-Samurai]

thats my point, I think there was a joke in Newsweek or something. "why do you hate freedom?" I actually know what you were talking about up there.

[nunechka]

ohhh ok... sorry i didnt get it...

[Anonymouse]

anony, but dont you think that government is the reason why all this has gone rotten??? look at each problem, THEY HAVE CAUSED IT! people dont see that the government has gone out of control...

The fact that you state this is mind boggling. Don't you know me yet? I'm anti-Government, anti-Statist, free market, anarchist, libertarian. This almost seems rhetorical as if to tease.

they are there to represent the people, but they are not representing anyone this way... they are placing everyone in more and more danger this way... THIS government CANNOT fix anything, and they will never fix anything... what we need is a better system, less faulty outcomes, and a form of body (representation) much more responsible...

You seem to miss the point of where economics and politics. They are not the same thing. Politics and politicians cannot make economically viable decisions because they themselves are separated from economics and are not subject to its laws, unless ex post facto, after the fact, such as when a system collapses by which point there positions are moot. You criticizing the present system of control, yet advocating another system of control is wishful thinking. How about no system of control and no thinking in the box?

I DONT understand how people can look at the same problem in this freakin WORLD and see totally different problems, i am not even talking about the solutions... even when they know everything, they all have the same information... there is so much BS, i cant even begin to fathom how the dumb asses in this country cant see this???

Welcome to chaos theory where we study complexities. Anyway this thread is about the dollar and economics, do not veer off.

[nunechka]

ok ok... its about the dollar... anywho i guess i got off the track because i try to find reasons to why its happening and not just that it has happened...

sooooo i know i can never be a libertarian because i care about other people, not just myself... but i can see why people would choose to be libertarian, it is a good choice... anywho, the dollar is going to fall even lower as this insanity of this war continues, people wont invest as much, and in general there is so much anti-americanism out there, 75% of the people in the US dont care, (they know there is, but they say go F*CK yourself) and the others know and they care, but they are too small in numbers to change anything...

please refer to the education thread to figure out why there are so many DUMB people in this country!

[Anonymouse]

Everyone knows the reasons its happening. It's a given.

Being a libertarian doesn't mean that you don't care about other people. You are more misinformed than I thought. The State attempts to present itself as "caring for other people" with its social programs and redistribution.

The take off point between you and me is that I believe in voluntary aid not coercive. You clearly do not know anything about classical liberalism.

As far as the dollar, it is traced historically in America from the time of the Federal Reserve and the removal of the gold standard and down to simply fiat. I refer the reader to Murray N. Rothbards, "What Has The Government Done To Our Money?" In particular read the reviews.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0945466102/qid=1102728180/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-1136362-2280761?v=glance&s=books

[nunechka]

if you were a libertarian you would not beleive in any aid at all, whether it was voluntarly or not... because libertarians believe that their taxes should not help others who are "lazy"... i put that in parenthases because people are placed in unfortunate situations and in this world, not having a job doesnt mean you didnt try, hence you are lazy... there is so much inequality, oppression, etc...

i dont know much about the libertarian theory, but what you wrote "classic liberalism" i am a bit confused about because i think you ment to write "libertarianism" and yes i dont know much about that... but anywho, i dont believe in coercive aid??? and maybe its not me wo is conditioned, maybe its you...

anywho, maybe we should talk on pms about this, because i want to know what you think "voluntary aid" is, how to come to it, what to do about it, and even WHY to have it in the first place...

but i see your point, you are right, maybe you dont really understand me... i have always felt its better to not pick a side and go insane with it, i say that extremism has never been good and it will not be good, so i will stick to the middle...

dont get me wrong i have strong beliefs that i will always stick to, but if see something good is coming from a socialism perspective, i am not going to say "hey, that idea is from a socialist guy, it must be bad" i am going to consider it with my ethics and morals, come to my conclusion that way... i hate picking party lines, because you will never see if something is going wrong unless you look at the situation from different a perspectives...

for example, most republicans consider themselves conservative spenders, but the fact that the value of the dollar has gone down so low, shows the rampand spending of money from this republican admin. Most of the republicans look at the situation and DO NOT see what you and I see (anony)... thats because they dont have another perspective, they are "party" people...

so anywho, now to my libertarian example, the libertarian party had proposed a new style of voting, you vote for all the people you would like to see in office, this way you can vote for as many candidates as you'd like... when they count the votes, the one who recieved the most votes would win... but here we have an advantage, for example if i would have voted for badnarik, cobb and kerry... and lets say 50% of the people voted both for badnarik and cobb but not kerry and the other 50% voted for badnarik and kerry and not for cobb... WHO would win? BADNARIK!

anywho, i know you know this, but i just wanted you to read all of that, i like it when you READ AND READ AND READ! because you know anonymouse you write a lot... SH!T you have 10,895 posts... THATS A LOT of writing...

i am SOOOO HUNGRY! and i want to go to BOBA world and have the tom yum soup but i cant find anyone to go with me

help...

[Anonymouse]

if you were a libertarian you would not beleive in any aid at all, whether it was voluntarly or not... because libertarians believe that their taxes should not help others who are "lazy"... i put that in parenthases because people are placed in unfortunate situations and in this world, not having a job doesnt mean you didnt try, hence you are lazy... there is so much inequality, oppression, etc...

That is untrue. Nunechka you clearly do not know about classical liberal theory nor libertarianism. It starts off with an axiom of human action. There are only two forms of human action, coercive and voluntary. The only institutions that have been developed by man that meets the criteria of voluntary action is trade and the free market, or what typifies a market economy. All other actions are coercive as they involve one or more groups coercing individuals into certain things. To be a libertarian means to believe that one cannot initiate aggression, coercion. There are many forms of libertarians, there are extreme libertarians, mediocre libertarians, etc. Not all libertarians believe in the same things. I myself do not believe in government. Some libertarians like the Ayn Rand Institute who claim to be libertarians believe in government and defence. I don't believe there should be any taxation period, and that is based on historic and economic reasons.

i dont know much about the libertarian theory, but what you wrote "classic liberalism" i am a bit confused about because i think you ment to write "libertarianism" and yes i dont know much about that... but anywho, i dont believe in coercive aid??? and maybe its not me wo is conditioned, maybe its you...

Classical liberalism is pretty much what most libertarians such as myself base their beliefs on. If you do not know much about liberal theory then I suggest you avoid making false assumptions. Classical liberalism is NOTHING like what silly "liberals" are today.

First off I do not vote nor do I believe in voting nor am I familiar with the libertarian parties goals or tenets. Second of all, voluntary aid and coercive aid are glaring. Anything that involves the government and wealth redistribution whether it is social security, welfare, etc., is all coercive because it was extracted from taxation and then given to others or eaten up by politicians. In other words, the people whos tax dollars were robbed had no choice but to comply or else face consequences against their will. The process which was involved here was coercive. Money was taken by certain people against their will, and it was given to others in the form of "welfare" or "social security" or any other socialistic redistribution nonsense. Voluntary aid on the other hand would be when someone willingly gives money for charity or philanthropic purposes, when it was not extracted coercively. Therein lies the difference between what is voluntary and coercive, what is the private sector versus the public sector.