Discussions!

[thedebutante]

Meaning what? What exactly do you do at home that takes you soooo long to do?

I dont do anything.

[ArmoBarbi]

Ok, you can say that it takes just two hours to do laundry, cook one meal, and wash dishes if those things are done at the same time. (2) There is more than one meal perday, and I hope no mother is happy feeding her children poptarts and calling it a breakfast every morning. (2) Then you have to consider the cleaning: vacuming, dusting, surfacing, cleaning the bathroom, keeping rooms in order. Thats at least two more hours in an average size home. (2) There is putting dishes back in their place and folding the laundry. There is grocery shopping, sorting the mail, paying and sending out bills, gas, car wash, driving children around, etc. (we'll leave most of that for a weekend to ease the load) And this is all if there isnt a baby and a pet in the household, which obviously adds work. Plus children need quality time and attention. If the woman is to do all that work without being interrupted, she would have to get a sitter or maybe use tv as a sitter, which is no good. You cant count on the child to sleep when its convenient for you. The child is the #1 priority. So... 2+2+1 in the morning+1 for lunch time (and the mother needs to eat herself)+2+spending all other time with the child/children.

All this doesnt give her time to rest, so of course she is tired by evening, and just then the hubby returns and she has to give him attention and have sex later that night when she should be resting up for another grueling day at work. I personally dont understand how these women manage to stay in love with their husbands and like sex after this kind of life style. Not to mention that they have no intellectual or social life this way. Yes, she doesnt mind doing it because she loves her family, but its still very very hard work!

Seriously, this is more than a full time job, dont downgrade it.

P.S. After writing this post... I have a feeling I'll be getting a weekly maid.

[karoaper]

Ok, you can say that it takes just two hours to do laundry, cook one meal, and wash dishes if those things are done at the same time. (2) There is more than one meal perday, and I hope no mother is happy feeding her children poptarts and calling it a breakfast every morning. (2) Then you have to consider the cleaning: vacuming, dusting, surfacing, cleaning the bathroom, keeping rooms in order. Thats at least two more hours in an average size home. (2) There is putting dishes back in their place and folding the laundry. There is grocery shopping, sorting the mail, paying and sending out bills, gas, car wash, driving children around, etc. (we'll leave most of that for a weekend to ease the load) And this is all if there isnt a baby and a pet in the household, which obviously adds work. Plus children need quality time and attention. If the woman is to do all that work without being interrupted, she would have to get a sitter or maybe use tv as a sitter, which is no good. You cant count on the child to sleep when its convenient for you. The child is the #1 priority. So... 2+2+1 in the morning+1 for lunch time (and the mother needs to eat herself)+2+spending all other time with the child/children.

All this doesnt give her time to rest, so of course she is tired by evening, and just then the hubby returns and she has to give him attention and have sex later that night when she should be resting up for another grueling day at work. I personally dont understand how these women manage to stay in love with their husbands and like sex after this kind of life style. Not to mention that they have no intellectual or social life this way. Yes, she doesnt mind doing it because she loves her family, but its still very very hard work!

Seriously, this is more than a full time job, dont downgrade it.

P.S. After writing this post... I have a feeling I'll be getting a weekly maid.

Half of those things you mentioned, I could help out with. I don't like cooking and that's one of the only few things that I'd love to have my future wife do, especially for my kids. But cleaning, dishes, laundry, bills, kids, etc. A man can help with those things and be as good as the woman. The main problem is the timing. In today's world, someone needs to work fulltime. The one who would make the most money by doing so would be the one to do it(I know it means most probably the man). The question is whether the other parent can work full time or not. When the kids are older and school age, that poses no problems for either parent, but when the kid is young, obviously things need to be worked out. Maybe the kids could go and hang out at one of their parent's workplaces. Most workplaces have little kindergartens for the kids of the employees. Also, this is why it's important to have your parents live nearby (as per Armenian customs). They can be the best and warmest sitters ever unless they're too old, then it's selfish to ask.

This is not a light question certainly, but don't make a big deal out of it. To me, the issue of kids time with the parents is about quality not about quantity. Few days a week in day care wont kill the kid. But when the parent has em, the parent can either be engaging and loving and caring and passionate, or someone who'd rather watch tv and gossip with her friends/play poker with mates.

[Sip]

But cleaning, dishes, laundry, bills, kids, etc. A man can help with those things and be as good as the woman.

Amen to that brotha ... AMEN to that. Dishes, laundry, bills? Leave those to me. I'll do them in 15 minutes tops with time to spare. And I assume you don't do laundry every day ... and if you do, I'll just buy you another set of underwear and socks. Bills? You don't even have to spend any time on those with automatic bill pay these days. Don't want automatic? Just a couple of clicks and it's done. Plus most bills only show up once a month so they average out to pretty much nothing a day.

Cooking? Again, if you want to go milk the cow, churn the butter, harvest the wheat and grain and process it into powder form to make the dough etc yah it'll take you all day. But come on now ... any of yous do your own shopping at the supermarket these days? You can "cook" some very fancy meals (and I ain't talking about pop tarts with gummy bear sprinkles) in less time than it takes to go to the bathroom to get rid of the food

Point being, "house holding" is blown to be waaaaaay out of proportion as this difficult "job". It certainly was difficult long ago when men wanted full time servants. But at this day and age, with all this automation and fancy shmancy stuff available to us, "house holding" CAN be (note that you can still live like the Amish if you want), a trivial "chore".

Taking care of the kids is an entirely different story. And I don't mean cooking for them. I mean providing them with enough entertainment during the day to not let them become couch potatoes from age <1.

[winoman]

A general comment - not specifically directed at anyone here - and all are welcome to their own opinions - but my observation is that a lot of comments are being made by people who at best are speculating with no real experience - particularly involving raising children. As with anything it seems to me that exposure and experience might create a more enlightened perspective. And regarding housework and such (and making meals even) - well I would suggest that the amount of effort required may have something to do with ones standards, the number of family memebers to take care of and perhaps the size and complexity of ones home - similarly with making meals. While I can make some very nice meals relatively quickly - there are alos many that require a great deal of work. We recently had some guests over and I spent an entire day in the kitchen (chop and slice and arrange and mix and cook etc) - and I had prepared adn maranated the main course (Kebabs!) days before...so again I contend its difficult to generalize here...

[Sip]

Wino ... on average, how long would you say the household chores take in your house? This is on average, per day. Not counting special circumstances with guests, the once-a-year let's clean out the whole place and throw out all the garbage, etc ... just the usual day-to-day stuff.

[Stark Evade]

You are all ugly in the head.

[winoman]

Wino ... on average, how long would you say the household chores take in your house? This is on average, per day. Not counting special circumstances with guests, the once-a-year let's clean out the whole place and throw out all the garbage, etc ... just the usual day-to-day stuff.

We have a maid so I really wouldn't know...

Actually - though the above statement is true - her and and assistant come over about once a week or every other depending...I would say that between my wife and I we spend an hour or two a day during the week (though not every day) cleaning clothes, vacuming, cleaning up in the kitchen, out on the deck, in the family and living rooms and so on and so forth. Dinner can be anywhere from a phoned in order to picking up something on the way home to an hour or more of prep - depending. (and the latter tends to be both the healthier and better meal - though we ordered from a killer Thai place near us the other night...)...so I just think it depends. Some people feel the need to dust every day and mop the floors and vacume and such...others have different standards - and certainly when both work - as my wife and I do - well it sdoesn't leave so much time - particularly since we have kids sports activites every day of the week but Sunday and sometimes we have other kids related things as well. (you'd be shocked at all we go through i think)....

[violette829]

God, I don't have the time nor the energy to read through all that stuff, but I have an opinion on the subject..

Now, the #1 thing you will have to remember when reading this is that I HATE TOM LYKISSMYASSIUS!!

As a woman, I know that I have certain natural responsibilities in life. If I CHOOSE to have a child, I know that my child is going to need 100% of my attention, love, and care. You guys keep mentioning the first couple of years being important...which I think is just stupid. Yes, the first couple of years ARE important, but what about when my child is 4 or 5 or 6..and so on. Until I was 14 years old, both of my parents worked. I must say, this played a part in me getting into a LOT of trouble. I did things when I was a kid that would make any mother's arm hair stand straight up. LOL Not to say that I was a complete menace, but I did make mistakes that I think were preventable if my mother would have been around. I also know that the father can NEVER take the place of a mother. Which leads me to this conclusion:
If you want your wife to stay home and take care of your children, you'd better make sure you make enough money for all of the expenses and then some. A man has NO RIGHT to complain about women wanting to work when he cannot make enough money for an ENTIRE household to survive. These days, it DOES take 2 incomes to survive. The times we live in are harsh...so stop your f*cking complaining about women in the work force. Life has pushed us into this situation. Instead of applauding the fact that we're doing something to help, you STILL complain? WTF?

You may live your life the way you want to live it. I refuse to have a child just for the sake of having a child or just because my biological clock is ticking. Who gives a f*ck about what my in laws are saying if I don't pop one out 9 months after the wedding? If I can't afford to have a child and stay home and take care of it, then why would I deliberately do that to an innocent child? I know sh*t happens and sometimes people get pregnant without planning it, but it's just not right. PLAN THAT SH*T! BE CAREFUL! Girls, please be careful about who you choose to marry. Guys, be open and admit your role in this. Just cause the baby's not coming out of you doesn't mean you had nothing to do with it.


BTW: I hope you're all doing well. I haven't been here for a while.

[violette829]

Point being, "house holding" is blown to be waaaaaay out of proportion as this difficult "job". It certainly was difficult long ago when men wanted full time servants. But at this day and age, with all this automation and fancy shmancy stuff available to us, "house holding" CAN be (note that you can still live like the Amish if you want), a trivial "chore".

Wow, you just turned centuries of hard work, blood, sweat, and tears into child's play. Tell me this, do you live alone? Do you have children to take care of? Do you do ALL of the housework at home? I bet if I spoke to your mother, she'd LAUGH and then ultimately..cry...at what you just said. I seriously have no time to sit and argue about what you just said and I wish I'd never read it..but you, my friend...are INSANE!