How big is your footprint on the Earth?

[Anonymouse]

Re: The Ankap Thread

I don't remember 'advocating' living like 'primitives' (whatever that means.) There is something wrong with many kinds of logging--like that done by savage 'nobles' who think the Earth (and all of nature) exists for their profiteering.

I already pointed to the Menonminee tribe in Wisconsin as a good example of non-damaging sustainable logging (where profit maximization isn't the guide and ecology is).

What's wrong with many kinds of logging? The fact that they cut down trees to support human civilization that expands exponentially? I am to guess then that you would support infanticides and genocides to curb human growth so we can save the trees!

By the way, profit maximization is a beautiful thing and it doesn't exist independently from human society. These people who profit provide a service and a good that is in demand, and that is how they make their profit, because there are people and a demand willing to pay for it. It's simple, which is why you don't understand economics.

If you don't like industrial civilization go live in the woods with the Menonminee people and smoke pipes and talk to Running Wolf and Chief Whispering Wind.

And for heaven's sake stop making the Ankap thread into your stupid environmental crusade. You already have that worthless footprint thread, please stay there.

[Anonymouse]

Re: How big is your footprint on the Earth?

If you can't afford the basic necessities to sustain life as a contributing member of society (i.e. not a drain), then you are part of the "over population". What determines whether you can afford the necessities is supply/demand.

But don't get me wrong though ... I am faaaar from being an anarchist. However, what I do mean is that if you can't afford to pay for food, gas, water, home, basic health care, and public services, then don't start having more damn babies.

I don't disagree one bit in that last part. But you will find that it is the Anahitas and other socialistic types who feel pity for these vile and wretched people, and it is the governments that support and encourage this dysgenic breeding among the low class, the poor, the intellectually inferior through social programs, and the welfare state they are able to encourage this sort of dysgenic breeding all the while the rest of us have to struggle.

Hitler was right in one thing and that was not supporting the intellectual midgets, the poor, and the criminals from the dregs of society, thereby not contributing to the worthless breeding these groups engage in.

[Anahita]

Re: The Ankap Thread

He didn't say which you like, but which has more value. That's not quite the same as saying which do you prefer... Mankind includes you too, you know.

And littering is just stupid. Can you not make it to a damn trash can? You wouldn't throw garbage on the ground in your home, so don't do it where others spend time. I'm sure you would avoid going somewhere where you have to walk around trash or where it's all over the place. The more people who litter, the more likely that's what our surroundings will look like. That's less about environmentalism and more about cleanliness.

That reminded me of something ironic I saw a few years ago. I was on a (literal) bus in another country. Above the driver was a sign that said, “Please have respect. Do not leave trash on the bus. Throw your trash out the window.” WTF? I thought.

I sometimes have spent an afternoon picking up litter in the park by my house. After I clean up by the water, I make a point of watching people litter. I then walk up next to them, stare them in the eyes, and pick up their garbage. Then I carry the litter to the trash. I think that makes a lasting impression for most people.

What does Moogig mean?

I am to guess then that you would support infanticides and genocides to curb human growth so we can save the trees!

Because you read, but don’t really pay attention to what I say Anonymouse, I’m only going to respond to the most absurd of your comments. First, I am not at all misanthropic (Your comments on the Footprint thread speak loudly of your misanthropic views).

I work VERY hard to prevent all kinds of genocide and suffering. That is likely clear to almost everyone here. Second, in fact, protecting non-human nature IS simultaneously protecting people. In Armenia alone, if deforestation isn’t stopped and reversed, the country faces very serious problems in the future (in just feeding people, having clean drinking water, and so on.) It is my intent to not only stop destruction, but reverse the damage already done. MAGIC = intent + action.

[Anahita]

Re: How big is your footprint on the Earth?

I don't disagree one bit in that last part. But you will find that it is the Anahitas and other socialistic types who feel pity for these vile and wretched people, and it is the governments that support and encourage this dysgenic breeding among the low class, the poor, the intellectually inferior through social programs, and the welfare state they are able to encourage this sort of dysgenic breeding all the while the rest of us have to struggle.

Hitler was right in one thing and that was not supporting the intellectual midgets, the poor, and the criminals from the dregs of society, thereby not contributing to the worthless breeding these groups engage in.

Well, that is a sick, disgusting and horrible view. I think that your statements here speak enough on their own--others can contrast your view with mine and clearly see how we differ (to put very mildly)!

[bell-the-cat]

Re: How big is your footprint on the Earth?

...breeding among the low class, the poor, the intellectually inferior

And in Mouse's ideal world, he, being an intellectual giant, a veritable colossus amongst mice and men, will expect to have at least a dozen concubines so that he can help alleviate the general lack of children when those other groups are sterilised.

Hitler was right in one thing and that was not supporting the intellectual midgets, the poor, and the criminals from the dregs of society, thereby not contributing to the worthless breeding these groups engage in.

An amusingly inaccurate statement, considering it was the poor, criminal elements, society's dregs, and intellectual midgets that formed the bulk of those who supported Hitler (together with the military and the industrialists).

[Anonymouse]

Re: The Ankap Thread

Because you read, but don’t really pay attention to what I say Anonymouse, I’m only going to respond to the most absurd of your comments. First, I am not at all misanthropic (Your comments on the Footprint thread speak loudly of your misanthropic views).

I work VERY hard to prevent all kinds of genocide and suffering. That is likely clear to almost everyone here. Second, in fact, protecting non-human nature IS simultaneously protecting people. In Armenia alone, if deforestation isn’t stopped and reversed, the country faces very serious problems in the future (in just feeding people, having clean drinking water, and so on.) It is my intent to not only stop destruction, but reverse the damage already done. MAGIC = intent + action.

If you really care about Armenia, you should surely ask the questions as to why it is the way it is. Thanks to almost a century of socialist policies, no different from the ones you support, the country has gone down the tubes. It is precisely because of socialistic policies that the country is in such a state. The same people who cry about pollution and fuel are also the ones who don't want to tap into or harness nuclear energy. It seems nothing is ever good for the environmentalist until man lives in straw huts and the only source of light are candles and campfires. Armenia faces a very serious problem, and the solution is not going back to central planning, tons of regulations and a closed system.

The truth is, man has been thrown into this world, and has tamed nature. While other animals are subject to the powers of nature and confined to it, man has been able to tame nature, from beasts of burden, to making environments adapt and conform to him. He will use what is around him, from animals, to trees, to minerals to secure his existence and civilization. That is what man does. What is underneath and underlies environmentalist and other crazy ecologists is nothingmore and nothing less than a disdain and natural antipathy toward everything that is human, from human creativity to human civilization, and this nepotism of nature shown by environmentalists is nothing more than a nihilistic hatred of man and industrialism. This explains why environmentalism became popular with many Marxists who eagerly ran to embrace this movement since it adovacated nothing short of going against private property, industrial society and in favor of primitive communalism.

[dsarkasian]

Re: The Ankap Thread

If you really care about Armenia, you should surely ask the questions as to why it is the way it is. Thanks to almost a century of socialist policies, no different from the ones you support, the country has gone down the tubes. It is precisely because of socialistic policies that the country is in such a state. The same people who cry about pollution and fuel are also the ones who don't want to tap into or harness nuclear energy. It seems nothing is ever good for the environmentalist until man lives in straw huts and the only source of light are candles and campfires. Armenia faces a very serious problem, and the solution is not going back to central planning, tons of regulations and a closed system.

The truth is, man has been thrown into this world, and has tamed nature. While other animals are subject to the powers of nature and confined to it, man has been able to tame nature, from beasts of burden, to making environments adapt and conform to him. He will use what is around him, from animals, to trees, to minerals to secure his existence and civilization. That is what man does. What is underneath and underlies environmentalist and other crazy ecologists is nothingmore and nothing less than a disdain and natural antipathy toward everything that is human, from human creativity to human civilization, and this nepotism of nature shown by environmentalists is nothing more than a nihilistic hatred of man and industrialism. This explains why environmentalism became popular with many Marxists who eagerly ran to embrace this movement since it adovacated nothing short of going against private property, industrial society and in favor of primitive communalism.

Damn those bolcheviks

[Anahita]

Re: The Ankap Thread

If you really care about Armenia, you should surely ask the questions as to why it is the way it is. Thanks to almost a century of socialist policies, no different from the ones you support, the country has gone down the tubes. It is precisely because of socialistic policies that the country is in such a state. The same people who cry about pollution and fuel are also the ones who don't want to tap into or harness nuclear energy. It seems nothing is ever good for the environmentalist until man lives in straw huts and the only source of light are candles and campfires. Armenia faces a very serious problem, and the solution is not going back to central planning, tons of regulations and a closed system.

The truth is, man has been thrown into this world, and has tamed nature. While other animals are subject to the powers of nature and confined to it, man has been able to tame nature, from beasts of burden, to making environments adapt and conform to him. He will use what is around him, from animals, to trees, to minerals to secure his existence and civilization. That is what man does. What is underneath and underlies environmentalist and other crazy ecologists is nothingmore and nothing less than a disdain and natural antipathy toward everything that is human, from human creativity to human civilization, and this nepotism of nature shown by environmentalists is nothing more than a nihilistic hatred of man and industrialism. This explains why environmentalism became popular with many Marxists who eagerly ran to embrace this movement since it adovacated nothing short of going against private property, industrial society and in favor of primitive communalism.

I really think that you confuse the values that are behind socialism with a political ‘socialism.’

Nuclear energy is very dangerous (and CERTAINLY is centralized energy). I can talk about that specific topic, too. I do agree with you that too much central planning is not a good idea. I don’t want government ownership… (though some public ownership of some places is a good--not all eggs in a single basket). I also certainly don’t want a corporate government and corporate ownership—Anonymouse, that is what you are advocating right now (know it or not--corporate communism). The difference I see between state ‘communism’ and corporate ‘communism’ is that in corporations, votes are counted based on shares (or $$$ invested buying vote rights) versus one person, one vote.

Government REGULATION, incentives, and other guides for markets are not at all the same as government ownership--those (regulations and incentives) are needed for the good of all.

So you understand, I am not a Marxist.

[Anonymouse]

Re: The Ankap Thread

I really think that you confuse the values that are behind socialism with a political ‘socialism.’

No I do not. The core and underlying teachings are the same.

Nuclear energy is very dangerous (and CERTAINLY is centralized energy). I can talk about that, too.

And very cheap, and very much an alternative to fuel. And it doesn't have to necessarily be centralized, whatever you mean by that.

I do agree with you that too much central planning is not a good idea. I don’t want government ownership… I also certainly don’t want a corporate government ownership—that is what you are advocating (know it or not).

That is untrue. I support as little to no government as possible, and am an ardent market supporter, so how can I possibly support 'corporate government ownership'. You are not making sense.

The difference I see between state ‘communism’ and corporate ‘communism’ is that in corporations, votes are counted based on shares (or $$$).

Corporations are not a bad thing. You can always buy shares in a company. Nothing stops the average Joe from saving capital and investing. You can't do that in communism and only morons can compare the market and somehow equate it to communism.

Government REGULATION, incentives, and other guides for markets are not at all the same as government ownership--those (regulations and incentives) are needed for the good of all.

But government intervention into the market is, because it results in what we call unintended consequences which distorts markets, causes price increases, shortages, inflation and depression and also what causes outsourcing. Government can never provide incentives for any company because they do not take into account the private interests of the company, it's target demographic, it's product and it's purpose and history. No government bureaucrat can ever effectively make decisions for other corporations, companies or people because it is impossible to process all of the information that goes into other people's decision-making. Thereby, government regulations are bad from every perspective.

So you understand, I am not a Marxist.

The only difference is in name.

[Anahita]

Re: How big is your footprint on the Earth?

MONEY is not ever an accurate measure of value. Anyone who thinks that lives a very shallow and sad life. How much money is your family worth? Would you sell them if the price was right? That’s intrinsic value. That is priceless value.