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Neo Iranians: The Case of Azeri Turks

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  • Re: Neo Iranians: The Case of Azeri Turks

    Originally posted by oslonor View Post
    Aryans originate from this area

    Yeah, I believed in Mallory's stance on that matter for a while too, but there are contrasting theories that hold good ground too. Apparently the idea that Aryans originated from the south of the Black Sea is not seen as such a joke anymore in academic circles. Nonetheless, the general consensus is that they lived around the Black Sea.

    The main differences between theorists today lie in what economic and lifestyle factors influenced the diffusion of PIE through it's migrants leaving the homeland. Other problems include the reality of Hittite and Tocharian being these sort of outliers of Indo-European languages in their grammars in a way that suggests they split from PIE very early. My professor for one of my classes has shown me that this is especially the situation with Hittite in terms of morpho-syntactic structure for masculine-feminine-neuter distribution in the vocabulary. Their genders were not categorized like any Indo-European concept we are used to seeing. They had 2: 1 was a hybrid of masculine and feminin, and 2 was a hybrid of feminine and neuter. The feminine gender if you will was understood through morphemes from both categories, and the vocabulary for feminine words did not share/switch between the two categories, each word apparently would keep to one of them even though semantically they were both feminine.

    The system it used sheds light on a very archaic feature of PIE that did not seem to survive anywhere else, and early Mycenaean Greek inscriptions from 1700BC, which are neither far away geographically nor chronologically, show evidence that the female gender has completely diffused from the masculine and has assumed what was once the archaic neuter morpheme.

    Perhaps you find this domain of inquiry boring and not bearing much insight on anything you're interested in, and that's understandable because you don't seem too concerned with the human language faculty and how our inquiry of what it's managed to produce throughout history, growing out of several thought provoking socio-linguistic circumstances, reflect us today and how we've emerged to have all our modern day diversities and similarities, what tools humanity has used to shape the world as it has, etc...

    Oslonor, it is quite pointless to cite the origin of Aryan peoples if you don't give a damn about the progression of one of the most observable relics of their legacy, their language family. You place way too much importance on genetics of human populations and we all know that this domain of inquiry is not the same one that was involved in bringing about these theories of homelands of a linguistic group known as PIE. Tying the two together along such rigid, fanatical lines is just so "folk" motivated as I like to call it, it's like your out there to prove something to the world about this aspect of your inner pride and put many people down while you're at it. I know many example of people from all kinds of ethnic backgrounds including my own who do the same, and hell even I've done it, but now I'm not for it because it's not the right attitude if you want to sit down and learn about human evolution through all the scientific means we have available to us today, in fact, it's not the right attitude if you want to learn anything substantial at all.

    If you want to debate about small noses vs big noses, fine, but what does the origin of the Aryan homeland have anything to do with it? And as Armenian has already implied with his messages, big noses and small noses are plentiful all around Eurasia and ethno-linguistic ancestry isn't strong enough of a factor to keep big noses from emerging in any group. To link big noses to Turks is just wrong on so many levels....
    Last edited by jgk3; 09-27-2008, 09:48 PM.

    Comment


    • Re: Neo Iranians: The Case of Azeri Turks

      Originally posted by Armenian View Post
      I suggest you look at pictures of English, French, German and Italian monarchs of the middle ages, most of them have prominant/curved noses. Throughout history most prominant Europeans have had dark hair and big noses, perhaps a testimony of their ancient Aryan roots.
      I'm a bit confused here. So, you believe they may have inherited these features… but you had said previously that being Aryan is a cultural trait and not a genetic or racial one. I don't get this.

      Comment


      • Re: Neo Iranians: The Case of Azeri Turks

        Originally posted by Lucin View Post
        I'm a bit confused here. So, you believe they may have inherited these features… but you had said previously that being Aryan is a cultural trait and not a genetic or racial one. I don't get this.
        Lucin jan, first of all I need to tell you that there are no "facts" in this discussion, just theories and beliefs. No one knows for sure where Aryans came from or what they were. However, some of the more serious theories point to the Armenian Highlands as the homeland of early Aryans. Persians/Iranians were the first people to call themselves or recognize themselves as Aryans. It is interesting to note here that some Iranians claim that their national origin was in the Armenian Highlands. Nonetheless, according to various archeological, linguistics, anthropological discoveries, it is believed that Aryans originated somewhere in the vicinity of the Armenian Highlands/Asia Minor and/or the Caucasus. Although ancient Persian prided themselves for being derived from Aryan heritage, the term Aryan in itself was a cultural term (national/linguistic) and not a racial/genetic term. Europeans made Aryan 'strictly' a racial term in modern times. However, those tribes that were culturally Aryan, or who spoke an Aryan language, were natives of the above mentioned region - Asia Minor - and the natives of Asia Minor do have some physical traits that are specific to the region in question. One of the traits are prominant noses. Anyway, as these early Aryans spread far-and-wide, bringing their culture and language as far east as the Himalayas and as far west as the British islands, they absorbed or assimilated into various other populations they came in contact with. Although diluted now by thousands of years interbreeding Eurasian peoples, telltale signs of the typical phenotype of the original Aryans can still be found throughout the lands they settled.
        Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:

        Նժդեհ


        Please visit me at my Heralding the Rise of Russia blog: http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.com/

        Comment


        • Re: Neo Iranians: The Case of Azeri Turks

          Originally posted by Armenian View Post
          Lucin jan, first of all I need to tell you that there are no "facts" in this discussion, just theories and beliefs. No one knows for sure where Aryans came from or what they were. However, some of the more serious theories point to the Armenian Highlands as the homeland of early Aryans. Persians/Iranians were the first people to call themselves or recognize themselves as Aryans. It is interesting to note here that some Iranians claim that their national origin was in the Armenian Highlands. Nonetheless, according to various archeological, linguistics, anthropological discoveries, it is believed that Aryans originated somewhere in the vicinity of the Armenian Highlands/Asia Minor and/or the Caucasus. Although ancient Persian prided themselves for being derived from Aryan heritage, the term Aryan in itself was a cultural term (national/linguistic) and not a racial/genetic term. Europeans made Aryan 'strictly' a racial term in modern times. However, those tribes that were culturally Aryan, or who spoke an Aryan language, were natives of the above mentioned region - Asia Minor - and the natives of Asia Minor do have some physical traits that are specific to the region in question. One of the traits are prominant noses. Anyway, as these early Aryans spread far-and-wide, bringing their culture and language as far east as the Himalayas and as far west as the British islands, they absorbed or assimilated into various other populations they came in contact with. Although diluted now by thousands of years interbreeding Eurasian peoples, telltale signs of the typical phenotype of the original Aryans can still be found throughout the lands they settled.
          "Aryan was cultural" but the blood group of Persians match Russians!!!!!!!! According to Coon "A Persian and a Pashtoon has the same head measurement as a Norwegian"!!!

          And Nuristani from Afghanistan looks like this:



          Do not worry about those Iranians. Iranians are Azeri Turks. They make any kind of claims about their Aryan origin. Iranians and Persians are two different people. Iranians is a fake name adopted by Azeri Turks.
          Last edited by oslonor; 09-28-2008, 03:43 PM.
          Persians and Hollywood
          http://oslonor.blogspot.com

          A Google Blog

          Comment


          • Re: Neo Iranians: The Case of Azeri Turks

            Originally posted by jgk3 View Post
            Yeah, I believed in Mallory's stance on that matter for a while too, but there are contrasting theories that hold good ground too. Apparently the idea that Aryans originated from the south of the Black Sea is not seen as such a joke anymore in academic circles. Nonetheless, the general consensus is that they lived around the Black Sea.

            The main differences between theorists today lie in what economic and lifestyle factors influenced the diffusion of PIE through it's migrants leaving the homeland. Other problems include the reality of Hittite and Tocharian being these sort of outliers of Indo-European languages in their grammars in a way that suggests they split from PIE very early. My professor for one of my classes has shown me that this is especially the situation with Hittite in terms of morpho-syntactic structure for masculine-feminine-neuter distribution in the vocabulary. Their genders were not categorized like any Indo-European concept we are used to seeing. They had 2: 1 was a hybrid of masculine and feminin, and 2 was a hybrid of feminine and neuter. The feminine gender if you will was understood through morphemes from both categories, and the vocabulary for feminine words did not share/switch between the two categories, each word apparently would keep to one of them even though semantically they were both feminine.

            The system it used sheds light on a very archaic feature of PIE that did not seem to survive anywhere else, and early Mycenaean Greek inscriptions from 1700BC, which are neither far away geographically nor chronologically, show evidence that the female gender has completely diffused from the masculine and has assumed what was once the archaic neuter morpheme.

            Perhaps you find this domain of inquiry boring and not bearing much insight on anything you're interested in, and that's understandable because you don't seem too concerned with the human language faculty and how our inquiry of what it's managed to produce throughout history, growing out of several thought provoking socio-linguistic circumstances, reflect us today and how we've emerged to have all our modern day diversities and similarities, what tools humanity has used to shape the world as it has, etc...

            Oslonor, it is quite pointless to cite the origin of Aryan peoples if you don't give a damn about the progression of one of the most observable relics of their legacy, their language family. You place way too much importance on genetics of human populations and we all know that this domain of inquiry is not the same one that was involved in bringing about these theories of homelands of a linguistic group known as PIE. Tying the two together along such rigid, fanatical lines is just so "folk" motivated as I like to call it, it's like your out there to prove something to the world about this aspect of your inner pride and put many people down while you're at it. I know many example of people from all kinds of ethnic backgrounds including my own who do the same, and hell even I've done it, but now I'm not for it because it's not the right attitude if you want to sit down and learn about human evolution through all the scientific means we have available to us today, in fact, it's not the right attitude if you want to learn anything substantial at all.

            If you want to debate about small noses vs big noses, fine, but what does the origin of the Aryan homeland have anything to do with it? And as Armenian has already implied with his messages, big noses and small noses are plentiful all around Eurasia and ethno-linguistic ancestry isn't strong enough of a factor to keep big noses from emerging in any group. To link big noses to Turks is just wrong on so many levels....
            What do you think about "Aryanization of Azeri Turks by Armenians"? This is an agenda pursued by Iranians/Azeri Turks in Armenia and it has caused a lot of social conflicts in Armenia according to many reports we are getting.

            Are Armenians supposed to "Aryanize" Iranians/Azeri Turks by marrying them?????

            Persians and Hollywood
            http://oslonor.blogspot.com

            A Google Blog

            Comment


            • Re: Neo Iranians: The Case of Azeri Turks

              Parthian Faces

              Persians and Hollywood
              http://oslonor.blogspot.com

              A Google Blog

              Comment


              • Re: Neo Iranians: The Case of Azeri Turks

                Fraud on Persians - Big Nose Fruad

                Persians and Hollywood
                http://oslonor.blogspot.com

                A Google Blog

                Comment


                • Re: Neo Iranians: The Case of Azeri Turks

                  hmmm, didn't know Catherine Bell was Persian. I was always kind of annoyed by the show JAG because I was only interested in the history shows on the History Channel (though by now I've grown out of most educational channels and shows on tv). But she's a nice actress imo.

                  Anyway, still on the big nose thing?

                  Btw, I haven't heard of these agendas of Armenians being mixed with Iranians in Iran, how successful do you think it is anyway? And how is it accomplished? We have a religion we like to still to you know, and in a place like Iran that is far from secular, I'd expect the Armenian community to be as guarding as ever of their mixing with non-Christians in particular. What news are you getting that suggests the contrary?
                  Last edited by jgk3; 09-28-2008, 07:52 PM.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Neo Iranians: The Case of Azeri Turks

                    Originally posted by oslonor View Post
                    "Aryan was cultural" but the blood group of Persians match Russians!!!!!!!! According to Coon "A Persian and a Pashtoon has the same head measurement as a Norwegian"!!!

                    And Nuristani from Afghanistan looks like this:



                    Do not worry about those Iranians. Iranians are Azeri Turks. They make any kind of claims about their Aryan origin. Iranians and Persians are two different people. Iranians is a fake name adopted by Azeri Turks.
                    Coon also classified those doliocephals of Iran and Afghanistan as Irano-Afghan and claimed that they are sort of cousins of the Nordics, and in general had darker features. He did not neglect to identify them with big noses however, and apparently some of your so called Persian group resent Coon's classifications of Persians altogether because he associates the hooked nose variety as a possible feature in their type...

                    Everyone so hastily associates the label "hooked nose" with xxxish noses. Get over your phobias man... Hooked noses occur in both directions btw, and are common through Eurasia, and have even been considered as valiant traits in different eras in Europe. Emperor Constantine is one such example. Personally, I feel that it "gives character", for whatever it's worth.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Neo Iranians: The Case of Azeri Turks

                      Originally posted by jgk3 View Post
                      Hooked noses occur in both directions btw, and are common through Eurasia, and have even been considered as valiant traits in different eras in Europe. Emperor Constantine is one such example. Personally, I feel that it "gives character", for whatever it's worth.
                      Perhaps the greatest Aryan of all



                      PS: You are taking this 'Assloaner' character way too seriously. You cannot talk sense to it. Notice how the character categorically rejected the images of the hooked nosed Parthians on the ancient coins as fakes? You're dealing with an assclown. Don't bother with it, unless you want to have some fun. However, just realize that the thing we are talking about is either a deeply troubled sick individual, or something waaaaaaaaaaay more sinister... maybe, just maybe, our Assloaner is the angry and vengeful soul of Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, the last Shah of glorious Aryan Persia, coming back to haunt them pesky hooked nosed Islamist Azeris that overthrew him...
                      Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:

                      Նժդեհ


                      Please visit me at my Heralding the Rise of Russia blog: http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.com/

                      Comment

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