Neo Iranians: The Case of Azeri Turks

[oslonor]

Re: Neo Iranians: The Case of Azeri Turks

kurds, turds theyre all the same.

Kurds have different origin (not homogenous). But Kurds are not Turks.

Inventing a new term called "Iranic", Azeris now claim that Ottoman Empire was a part of Iranic Empire!!!!


List of Iranic states and empires.

History of Greater Iran

Empires of Persia · Kings of Persia
Pre-modern
Before Islam [show]
BCE
Zayandeh River Civilization prehistoric–?
Sialk civilization 7500–1000
Jiroft civilization (Aratta) 3000–?
Proto-Elamite civilization 3200–2800
Bactria-Margiana Complex 2200–1700
Elamite dynasties 2800–550
Kingdom of Mannai 10th–7th cent.
Median Empire 728–550
Achaemenid Empire 550–330
Seleucid Empire 330–150
Greco-Bactrian Kingdom 250-125
Parthian Empire 248–CE 224
CE
Kushan Empire 30–275
Sassanid Empire 224–651
Hephthalite Empire 425–557
Kabul-Shahi dynasty 565–670

After Islamic Conquest [show]
Patriarchal Caliphate 637–651
Umayyad Caliphate 661–750
Abbasid Caliphate 750–1258
Tahirid dynasty 821–873
Alavid dynasty 864–928
Saffarid dynasty 861–1003
Samanid dynasty 819–999
Ziyarid dynasty 928–1043
Buyid Dynasty 934–1055
Ghaznavid Empire 975–1187
Ghori dynasty 1149–1212
Seljuk Empire 1037–1194
Khwarezmid dynasty 1077–1231
Kartids dynasty 1231-1389
Ilkhanate 1256–1353
Muzaffarid dynasty 1314–1393
Chupanid dynasty 1337–1357
Jalayerid dynasty 1339–1432
Timurid Empire 1370–1506
Qara Qoyunlu Turcomans 1407–1468
Aq Qoyunlu Turcomans 1378–1508
Safavid Empire 1501–1722*
Mughal Empire 1526–1857
Hotaki dynasty 1722–1729
Afsharid dynasty 1736–1802
* or 1736

Modern
SSR = Soviet Socialist Republic
Afghanistan [show]
Durrani Empire 1748–1823
British and Russian influence 1826–1919
Independence and civil war 1919–1929
Mohammedzai rule 1929–1973
Republic of Afghanistan 1973–1978
Communist rule 1978–1992
Recent history of Afghanistan since 1992
Timeline

Azerbaijan [show]
Khanates of the Caucasus 1722–1828
Russian Rule 1828–1917
Democratic Republic 1918–1920
Azerbaijan SSR 1920–1991
Republic of Azerbaijan since 1991

Bahrain [show]
Portuguese rule 1521–1602
British Treaty 1820–1971
Kingdom of Bahrain since 1971

Iran [show]
Zand dynasty 1750–1794
Qajar dynasty 1781–1925
Pahlavi dynasty 1925–1979
Iranian Revolution 1979
Provisional Government 1979
Islamic Republic of Iran since 1979



Hashimite monarchy 1920–1958
Coup and Republic 1958–2003


Tajikistan [show]
Emirate of Bukhara 1785–1920
Bukharan / Uzbek SSR 1920–1929
Tajik Autonomous SSR 1929
Tajik SSR 1929–1991
Republic of Tajikistan since 1991

Uzbekistan [show]
Emirate of Bukhara 1785–1920
Uzbek SSR 1924–1991
Independence 1991
Republic of Uzbekistan since 1991

The following is a list of Iranic states and empires. It includes both states and empires founded by the Iranian peoples and those that have been heavily affected by Iranian civilization or culture.

Contents [hide]
1 Modern nations
1.1 De facto states
1.2 Autonomous entities
1.3 Former and Defunct countries and autonomous regions
2 Historical Kingdoms and empires
2.1 Africa
2.2 Anatolia
2.3 Caucasus
2.4 Central Asia
2.5 Europe
2.6 Iranian plateau and Middle East
2.7 South Asia
3 See also
4 Notes



(Modern nations)

Afghanistan
Iran
Tajikistan

De facto states
South Ossetia

Autonomous entities

Taxkorgan Tajik Autonomous County
North Ossetia-Alania
North-West Frontier Province
Balochistan (Pakistan)
Iraqi Kurdistan

Former and Defunct countries and autonomous regions

Daoud's Republic of Afghanistan
Lasted from July 17, 1973 to April 28, 1978.
Democratic Republic of Afghanistan
Lasted from 1978 to 1992.
Kingdom of Kurdistan (Iraq)
Lasted from September 1922 to July 1924.
Kingdom of Kurdistan (Anatolia)
Established in 1925, stayed independent[citation needed] for 3 months.
Republic of Ararat
Lasted from 1927 to 1931.
Republic of Mahabad
Lasted from January 22, 1946 to December 15, 1946.
Tajik ASSR
Lasted until 1929.
Tajik SSR
Lasted from 1929 to 1991.
Talysh-Mughan Autonomous Republic
Lasted from June to August 1993.

Historical Kingdoms and empires

In Africa?
Bazrangids
Kilwa Empire
Rustamids
Zanj Empire

(In Anatolia)
Ottoman Empire
(1299-1922)[1][2] (because the culture of the ruling dynasty, the House of Osman, was largely derived from the Persian culture, the Ottomans may also be regarded as Turkic Persianate; see also: Turko-Persian Tradition)[3][4][5][6]

[edit] Caucasus
Alans
Chosroid Dynasty
a dynasty of Iranian origin and a branch of the Mihranids.
Cimmerians
ancient equestrian nomads of Iranian or Thracian origin
Mihranids
Parthian or Persian ruling family of Arran from the 6th century to the 8th century.
Shaddadid
Kurdish rulers of Armenia and Arran from 951 to 1174 or 1199.
Shirvanshahs
Persianized family of original Arab descent that ruled Shirvan from 801 to 1538.

(In Central Asia)

Bactria-Margiana
ca. 2200–1700 BCE.
Sogdia
Greco-Bactrian Kingdom
Lasted from 250 until 125 BCE.
Turan (Avesta)
Massagetae
Hephthalite
Lasted from 425 until 557 CE.
Samanid dynasty
Lasted from 819 until 999 CE.
Ghurids
Islamic Tajik dynasty, lasted from 543-613 until 1148-1215
Hotaki
Pashtun dynasty, lasted from 1709 until 1738.
Ghaznavid dynasty
Ruled by a predominantly Persian-speaking family of Turkic mamluk origin; the Turkic identity of the dynasty is controversial.[7][8] Lasted from 962 until 1187
Khwarezm Shahs
Ruled by a predominantly Persian-speaking family of Turkic mamluk origin; Turkic identity of the dynasty is controversial.[9] Lasted from 1097 until 1231.
Timurid dynasty
Turkicized and Persianized dynasty of Mongol origin. Lasted from 1370 until 1506
Durrani Empire
Lasted from 1747 until 1823.

(In Europe)

Scythia
Sarmatians

(Iranian plateau and Middle East)

Ayyubids
Kurdish
Mannaeans
Possibly an Indo-Iranian peoples, 10th to 7th centuries BCE.
Median Empire
First Iranian empire, lasted from 727 until 549 BCE.
Achaemenid Empire
Second Iranian empire, lasted from 559 until 330 BCE.
Parthia
Third Iranian empire, lasted from 63 BCE until 220 CE.
Sassanid Empire
Fourth Iranian empire, lasted from 226 until 651 CE.
Abbasid Caliphate
Persianized Arab Islamic dynasty which lasted from 750 until 1258 CE.
Rawadids
Kurdicized family of original Arab descent
Buyid dynasty
Persian Shi'a dynastic confederation from Daylaman
Sajids
Sogdian dynasty ruling NW Ira from 889 A.D. to 929 A.D.
Sallarid
Daylamite dynasty ruling NW Iran from 942 A.D. to 979 A.D.
Justanid
Daylamite dynasty. From 791 A.D. to 974 A.D.
Hasanwayhid
Kurdish dynasty. Lasted from 959 until 1015 CE.
Annazid
Kurdish dynasty. Lasted from 990 until 1116 CE.
Seljuq Empire
Ruled by a Persianized Turkic dynasty of Oghuz Turkic origin. [7][10][11] Lasted from 1073 until 1307.
Ziyarid
Iranian dynasty that ruled in the Caspian sea provinces of Gorgan and Mazandaran. Lasted from 928 until 1043
Safavid dynasty
Fifth Iranian empire, lasted from 1502 until 1722.
Afsharid dynasty
Sixth Iranian empire, lasted from 1736 until 1796
Zand dynasty
Dynasty of Lor descent which ruled in Southern Iran, lasted from 1750 until 1794.
Qajar dynasty
Seventh Iranian empire, lasted from 1781 until 1925.
Pahlavi dynasty
Last Iranian dynasty, lasted from 1925 until 1979.

(In South Asia)

Indo-Scythians
Pallavas
Pahlava rulers, and founders, of the Pallava Kingdom in southern India, lasting from the 6th century to the late 9th century.
Kadava kingdom
Rulers claimed descent from the Pallavas, 13th and 14th centuries.
Mughal Empire
Persianized mixed Persian, Turkic, and Mongolic Islamic Indian dynasty, lasting from April 21, 1526 to September 21, 1857.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...es_and_empires

[robertik1]

Re: Neo Iranians: The Case of Azeri Turks

kurds, turds theyre all the same.

[oslonor]

Re: Neo Iranians: The Case of Azeri Turks

You see Kurds call them "Iranians". They know what they are talking about.

[oslonor]

Re: Neo Iranians: The Case of Azeri Turks

PJAK: 92 Iranian soldiers, officers and counter guerillas have been killed in retaliatory military operations that transformed East Kurdistan-Iran into a war zone.

Between 25 of May and 2 of June, PJAK-People’s Defense Forces of Kurdistan (HRK) have killed 92 Iranian soldiers, officers and counter guerillas in retaliatory military operations that transformed East Kurdistan-Iran into a war zone.

The retaliation was in self defense and the answer to the barbaric attacks of the Iranian army and security forces against the Kurdish and Iranian people, the continuous bombings of Kandil region, the savage killing of 7 of our Guerrillas and the murder under torture of our martyr Mr. Esmer Demir.

PJAK is for democratic values, freedom and peace. It is against any suicide or terrorist attacks and killing of civilians, it adheres to the United Nations Human rights declaration and international laws. It is a freedom fighters movement for the Kurdish and Iranian people. It is a political massive national democratic movement of the Kurds in Iran.

On the 23 of May, 7 of the PJAK guerrillas were martyred when their car destroyed by the Iranian military forces in the village of Lesgardiens. Our guerrillas fighter martyr Esmer Demir (Xane) was captured alive by the Iranian military and died under torture, they have tied him to a military tank and dragged him through the village streets. Our martyr Mr. Esmer Demir was therefore murdered by torture in violation of all international and humanitarian laws.

Retaliatory military operations of PJAK:

On the first of June, 2008:

1. The PJAK (Guerrillas) Partisan fighters attacked Ashura military base of the Revolutionary Guards located between the cities of Saghez and Mariwan.15 Pasdar members were killed and 2 cars in the quarter destroyed.

2. One of our guerillas partisan units in the city of Mariwan killed an Iranian Basij high ranking member, his name is Asad He and two other Basij members were involved in torturing and terrorizing Mr. Ayub Fakhri a member of PJAK and the people of Mariwan city.

On 31 of May: our forces attacked an Iranian army military base close to Shno city. 13 Iranian soldiers were killed and many wounded.

On 27 of May:

1. Our guerilla forces attacked a military base near Kamiyaran city. Also a convoy of 5 military vehicles were on their way to deliver loads of logistic supplies to the base was attacked. Many soldiers were killed and wounded.

2. our guerilla forces attacked Iranian army units in Alwatan area near Sardasht city, the result was 5 contra-guerilla and 7 Pasdar members killed.

3. Our Forces attacked and destroyed a military vehicle in Kirmanshah city, 4 Pasdar members were killed.

4. Our Guerilla forces attacked and destroyed a military vehicle at the village of Zale near Mariwan city, all of the 13 soldiers in the vehicle were killed,

On 26 of May: our Guerilla attacked a military convoy of vehicles in Salmas city area near Goza Rash village, one high level military officer and 20 Pasdar members were killed and more than 20 soldiers wounded. Also 4 Pasdar members were killed in different clashes in the same area.

On 25 of May:

1. Our guerilla attacked an air forces base in Tehran city, the Capital of Iran. During the attack 2 cars were destroyed, 3 air force soldiers killed and many wounded.

2. Our guerilla forces ambushed an Iranian army unit in Kotul area near Khoy city, 6 soldier were killed in this ambush.

The Kurdistan Free Life Party (PJAK) calls upon the United Nations, the United States of America, Iraq, the European Union and the European states to realize that the path to security and democracy in the Middle East leads through a change of the Iranian theocratic regime. Therefore a positive approach to the Kurdish question and the demands and views of Iran's peoples and the peoples of the Middle East is necessary. Oligarchic, theocratic and reactionary states cannot be force of stability and cannot meet the demands of the peoples. At the same time these states undermine global security by setting up and funding fundamentalist groups.

It is time to put stop to the atrocities and human rights violations of the Iranian Islamic oppressive regime.

We call upon the international community to help the Kurds and the peoples of Iran (no Iranian here)in their struggle for democracy, freedom and peace.

http://kurdmedia.com/article.aspx?id=14825

[oslonor]

Re: Neo Iranians: The Case of Azeri Turks

Hellektor,
Without drilling into the details, are you aware that Oslonor
1- Is not saying that Saffavids were kings of Azerbaijan
2- That Azeris are being fraudulent, trying to steal an identity

You don't even have to read between the lines, it's explicit????

P.S. Of course, I'm not saying that oslonor's thesis makes sense or the facts are accurate.

The Armenian people are facing a great danger equal to 1915 today. You should move fast and make new alliances before it is too late.

[oslonor]

Re: Neo Iranians: The Case of Azeri Turks

I think Hellhektor will continue his line until the whole Armenia has been turkified by the so called "Iranians" in form of exported Azeri students, azeri workers, azeri truck drivers etc all pure "Iranians". Recently Azeris from The Republic of Azerbaijan have become "Iranians" too.!!!!!



Fraud on Mr. Samvel signature: "Cyrus the great was "Iranian"".

Sorry he was Persian, Pars or Parsua. That is what they were called. And it is not a greek invention.

praise of iran and iranians,praise of kurosh and daruoosh , praise of the persian gulf , praise of persepolis

[Hellektor]

Re: Neo Iranians: The Case of Azeri Turks

Hellektor,
Without drilling into the details, are you aware that Oslonor
1- Is not saying that Saffavids were kings of Azerbaijan
2- That Azeris are being fraudulent, trying to steal an identity

You don't even have to read between the lines, it's explicit????

P.S. Of course, I'm not saying that oslonor's thesis makes sense or the facts are accurate.

Obviously you are falling into the trap of these pan-Turkist impostors. The whole point of this spambot called oslonor that post almost on any Armenian and Iranian blog and forum is that they pretend they are Persians, fed up with pan-Turkist "Azeris" of Iran (no such thing exists), and they want that the real Azarbaijan (Atrpatakan) be severed from Iran and annexed to the fake nonentity that stole the name of this province. This is the same thing as the Bernard (Jewey) Lewis project and is sure to drown Armenia in a Turk quagmire.

I think I have to copy paste this for each and every member, since it's wishful thinking that people will have read one's posts. Once more, what the heck!

Oslonor(s) pretend(s) to care about Armenians and he-she-it /they spread(s) his-her-its/their meaningless, confusing mishmash on all Armenian forums and some. While he-she-it/they succeed in fooling some for a short while, their bluff is easily debunked by the average readers.

No Iranian will allow a single square nanometer of Iran to be separated from it. Just think of the three tiny islands in the Persian Gulf, claimed by the Emirates. No Iranian is demanding a single square nanometer of Afghanistan. This is a blatant pan-Turkist lie.

To recapitulate:

• I. Oslonor(s) “believe(s)”/want(s) to make believe that the Turkish speaking Iranians living in the real Azarbaijan (Atrpatakan) are one and the same as the bogus “nation” north of the Arax.
  
  Wrong, a thousand times wrong yet this is what pan-Turkists claim.
  
  
• II. Oslonor(s) “believe(s)”/want(s) to make believe a nation called “Azeri” exists.
  
  Wrong, a thousand times wrong, yet this is what pan-Turkists claim.
  This fake “nation” was artificially created by Ottomans and Bolsheviks to destroy Armenia.
  
  
• III. Oslonor(s) “believe(s)”/want(s) to make believe the fictitious “nation” speaks a language called “Azeri”.
  
  Wrong, a thousand times wrong, yet this is what pan-Turkists claim.
  They speak a dialect of Turkish. So do the Turkish speaking Iranians as a result of centuries long Turkish domination of the area. Azari was referred by Islamic historians to the language spoken in the real Azarbaijan (Atrpatakan) and it was a dialect of Pahlavi Persian.
  
  
• IV. Oslonor(s) “believe(s)”/want(s) to make believe that Iran should be dissected according to that devil Bernard Lewis’ project.
  
  This has been a pan-Turkists delirium for centuries.
  No self-respecting Iranian will want a square nanometer of Iran to be separated from it. The only ones who want this are pan-Turkists like Oslonor(s) and their Anglo/Zionist supporters.
  
  
• V. Oslonor(s) is/are not even Iranian; he-she-it/they say(s) this on his-her-its/their blog.

...in 14 century a branch of Oghuz Turks entered Iran and built the Saffavid dynasty in Iran. ...The Oghuz Turks who entered Iran are called Azeri Turks

This is a pan-Turkist fallacy that contains several fallacies in itself. Still not clear?

[Hellektor]

Re: Neo Iranians: The Case of Azeri Turks

Entzi toovema es mege meehad toork gyot veran mene.

Shat jisht es gitaktsel, robertik jan.

[Hellektor]

Re: Neo Iranians: The Case of Azeri Turks

Do you think Iran considers it counterfeited on Armenian territory? I am pretty sure in Iran its considered counterfeited on Iranian territory. Had Azerbaijan proclaimed and pursued pan-shiism instead of pan-turkism, Iran would be an enemy to Armenia not a trading partner.

No one considers anything Armenian territory other than Armenians the 3 big competing power consider it either Iranian territory, Russian territory, or Ottoman territory (??? H.).

Again, as I said in the previous post, it's wishful thinking that every member could read one's posts. Please read the historians section of my thing about fake “Azerbaijan” and assure yourself, as far as history is concerned, Aghvank has been considered part of Armenia. In any case, I don't see whty Turks can claim Aghvan heritage when they have absolutely no affinity with them and would readily exterminate them were the Aghvans alive today.

Extracts from And the Fraud Had a Name, Islamic Historians section:

Baladhuri (?-c. 892 AD): The Iranian historian Baladhuri (died 279 Hijri) considers Aran (Aghvank) part of Armenia. He clarifies the fact of a considerable Armenian presence in Aran (Aghvank) as follows...

Dinwari (828-894 AD): ...Aghvank is considered part of Armenia according to this historical narration.

Ya’qubi (?-897 AD): In his Tarikh (History), Ya’qubi considers Aran (Aghvank) a province in Armenia and says it was known as the third Armenia...

Ibn Khordadbeh (c. 820-912/913 AD): ...says Armenia consists of four parts. He considers Aran (Aghvank) part of first Armenia (Armenia Maior). He writes: “The First Armenia includes Sisjan (Sisakan, Սիսական) and Aran (Aghvank) and Tiflis (Tbilisi) and Bardha (Partaw, Պարտաւ) and Beylakan (Pytakaran, Փայտակարան) and Qabalah (Kabalak, Կապաղակ) and Shirvan.

Tabari (838-923 AD): Recounting the events of 145 Hijri, Tabari also reports the Khazar invasion into Armenia from Bab ul Abwab (Darband, Chor) and their occupation of lands north of the River Kur. This clearly shows that there was no doubt in Tabari’s mind that Aghvank was a part of Armenia.

Ibn Faqih (late 9th-early 10th centuries AD):According to Ibn Faqih, Armenia consisted of four parts what he calls first, second, third and fourth Armenia. Aran (Aghvank) and Sisjan (Sisakan) were a part of first Armenia (Medz Hyke, Armenia Maior).

Ibn Rosteh (mid 9th-early 10th centuries AD): ...cites Aran (Aghvank), Jorzan (Georgia), Neshwi (Nakhijavan, Նախիջևան), Khlat, Dabil (Dvin, Դւին), Saghdbil, Seraj, Arjish (Arjesh), Bajonis, Sisjan (Sisakan) and Bab ul Abwab (Darband, Chor) as Khoras of Armenia.

Abu Reyhan Biruni (973-1048 AD) mentions Bardha (Partaw) a city in Aran (Aghvank) close to the River Kur, Beylakan (Pytakaran), Khlat, Arjish (Arjesh, Argishtiuni, Արճեշ, Արգիշտիունի), Shirvan and Bab ul Abwab (Darband, Chor). He explains that Bab ul Abwab is also known as Darband of Khazar and Bakooh (Baku) is the source of white naft (oil). Abureyhan considers all these regions part of Armenia until Vartan (Vartanakert)...

Qudamah ibn Jafar mentions the khoras and considers Aran (Aghvank) a khora of Armenia.

Bakri Qurtubi (?-c. 1094 AD) ...considers Aran (Aghvank) a khora in Armenia. He explains: “Khoras of Armenia: Aran (Aghvank), Jorzan (Georgia), Neshwi (Nakhijevan), Khlat, Dabil (Dvin), Seraj, Jordbil, Arjish (Arjesh), Sisjan (Sisakan), the city of Bab ul Abwab (Darband, Chor)...

Toosi says: ...“Bardha (Partaw H.) …is a city on the border of Armenia to the Caucasus Mountain.” Note that this is already in the times after the Seljuk invasions. Not a single sign of “Azeri” or “Azerbaijan” in the region north of the Arax is yet to be discerned.


skhara, I understand your cynicism concerning what I say, you believe Armenia is nothing, cannot defend itself, history is worthless and whatever Russians and Judeo-Saxons say counts and basta. I beg to differ. I believe all the history falsification from the Turds can be easily pulverized by historic facts, what they do not have, yet see their claim to the “khanate of Erivan”, the “glorious” zillion eons nonexistent history of the empire of “Azerbaijan”… What wouldn't they do had they a millionth of the historic facts we have, yet you throw that all in the toilet. I believe history is important.

Oh! Ottoman territory? The Ottomans could never lay their filthy paws on those regions that’s why they counterfeited fake “Azerbaijan” in the first place so that Armenia would not expand to the east, historically part of their homeland. That’s why fake “Azerbaijan” never had defined borders which forced the League of Nations to reject their bid to join in 1920, effectively forbidding fake “Azerbaijan” to become a subject of international law until 1991.

This is important because it voids their claim of territorial integrity, which never existed before this date, therefore according to international law Artsakh was never part of fake “Azerbaijan”. But of course you don’t care and don’t tell me of the double standards in applying international law, everyone knows that by now.

[Siamanto]

Re: Neo Iranians: The Case of Azeri Turks

Safavids are kings of Persia not “Azerbaijan”. The only “Azeri” dynasty is that of the Aliyevs, the present ruling clan of the artificially counterfeited fraudulent nonentity of fake “Azerbaijan”.

A nation called “Azeri” has never existed throughout human history. Fortunately I have already compiled enough material to counter the predictable Turk regurgitations and delirious hallucinations, so all I have to do is copy/paste from my own writings!

Hellektor,
Without drilling into the details, are you aware that Oslonor
1- Is not saying that Saffavids were kings of Azerbaijan
2- That Azeris are being fraudulent, trying to steal an identity

You don't even have to read between the lines, it's explicit????

P.S. Of course, I'm not saying that oslonor's thesis makes sense or the facts are accurate.