Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!)

1] What you CAN NOT post.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is:
- abusive
- vulgar
- hateful
- harassing
- personal attacks
- obscene

You also may not:
- post images that are too large (max is 500*500px)
- post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or cited properly.
- post in UPPER CASE, which is considered yelling
- post messages which insult the Armenians, Armenian culture, traditions, etc
- post racist or other intentionally insensitive material that insults or attacks another culture (including Turks)

The Ankap thread is excluded from the strict rules because that place is more relaxed and you can vent and engage in light insults and humor. Notice it's not a blank ticket, but just a place to vent. If you go into the Ankap thread, you enter at your own risk of being clowned on.
What you PROBABLY SHOULD NOT post...
Do not post information that you will regret putting out in public. This site comes up on Google, is cached, and all of that, so be aware of that as you post. Do not ask the staff to go through and delete things that you regret making available on the web for all to see because we will not do it. Think before you post!


2] Use descriptive subject lines & research your post. This means use the SEARCH.

This reduces the chances of double-posting and it also makes it easier for people to see what they do/don't want to read. Using the search function will identify existing threads on the topic so we do not have multiple threads on the same topic.

3] Keep the focus.

Each forum has a focus on a certain topic. Questions outside the scope of a certain forum will either be moved to the appropriate forum, closed, or simply be deleted. Please post your topic in the most appropriate forum. Users that keep doing this will be warned, then banned.

4] Behave as you would in a public location.

This forum is no different than a public place. Behave yourself and act like a decent human being (i.e. be respectful). If you're unable to do so, you're not welcome here and will be made to leave.

5] Respect the authority of moderators/admins.

Public discussions of moderator/admin actions are not allowed on the forum. It is also prohibited to protest moderator actions in titles, avatars, and signatures. If you don't like something that a moderator did, PM or email the moderator and try your best to resolve the problem or difference in private.

6] Promotion of sites or products is not permitted.

Advertisements are not allowed in this venue. No blatant advertising or solicitations of or for business is prohibited.
This includes, but not limited to, personal resumes and links to products or
services with which the poster is affiliated, whether or not a fee is charged
for the product or service. Spamming, in which a user posts the same message repeatedly, is also prohibited.

7] We retain the right to remove any posts and/or Members for any reason, without prior notice.


- PLEASE READ -

Members are welcome to read posts and though we encourage your active participation in the forum, it is not required. If you do participate by posting, however, we expect that on the whole you contribute something to the forum. This means that the bulk of your posts should not be in "fun" threads (e.g. Ankap, Keep & Kill, This or That, etc.). Further, while occasionally it is appropriate to simply voice your agreement or approval, not all of your posts should be of this variety: "LOL Member213!" "I agree."
If it is evident that a member is simply posting for the sake of posting, they will be removed.


8] These Rules & Guidelines may be amended at any time. (last update September 17, 2009)

If you believe an individual is repeatedly breaking the rules, please report to admin/moderator.
See more
See less

How do Armenian feel about Mount Ararat?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • jgk3
    replied
    Originally posted by bell-the-cat View Post
    And it is more or less a copy of what I said a lot earlier. Not that I expect you to see or to admit that, because, if I, as a non-Armenian, can express exactly the same answer, it doesn't say much for the breadth or depth of your own feelings, does it?

    It was you who asked the accusative question about whether I have seen Ararat. And if I had had answered "no I have not", I quess would have got as a response some contempt-filled words telling me that I was talking about something I knew nothing about.
    Maybe. The fact that you did see it (several times) and provided the response you did to the question is a striking statement to us Armenians. We just happen to be the subjects who feel a sense of attachment or imagination towards it, and you recognize this as a nationalist sentiment exhibited by Armenians.

    I'll admit, I can be suspicious sometimes of how otars regard these things.

    I apologize, I don't think I was thinking of your response that is rather similar in content to Haykakan's when I made my criticism earlier.
    Last edited by jgk3; 02-07-2009, 09:47 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • bell-the-cat
    replied
    Re: How do Armenian feel about Mount Ararat?

    Originally posted by jgk3 View Post
    Now that's an answer I wish I could've said
    And it is similar to what I had written a lot earlier. Not that I expect you to see or to admit that, because, if I, as a non-Armenian, can express exactly the same answer, it doesn't say much for the breadth or depth of your own feelings, does it?

    Originally posted by Haykakan View Post
    It really isn't hard at all to see the significance Ararat has for armenians. All you have to do is go to Yerevan on a clear day and just look at the huge mountain which towers over our capital city every day. For those who live there it is a part of their everyday life, a unmistakable presence. Today we see it only form one side (arguably the better side). Befor the genocide that mountain was surrounded by armenians on all sides so i think even bell can figure out that something as grand as this mountain sitting in the center of the armenian population would certainly have great meaning and attachment to the people living around it. All one has to do (even someone like bell) is go to yerevan and look at ararat from one of the tall buildings there and you will know what that mountain means to us.
    Originally posted by bell-the-cat View Post
    Such is the small size of the country and the height of the mountain, most of the population of Armenia can see Ararat and, with that seeing, there is always the pain of knowing that it is not part of Armenia's territory, that it is now part of a country which tried to exterminate the Armenian nation, and that they cannot visit it. So even though most of the cultural reasons that once gave such mountain peaks significance (the abode of the Gods, and such like) are no longer applicable, on a basic level the physical presence of Ararat guarantees its continuing cultural importance.
    And it was you who asked me the accusative question about whether I have seen Ararat, I never brought it up. If I had had answered "no I have not", I quess would have got as a response from you some contempt-filled words telling me that I was talking about something I knew nothing about.
    Last edited by bell-the-cat; 02-07-2009, 10:10 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • jgk3
    replied
    Re: How do Armenian feel about Mount Ararat?

    Originally posted by Haykakan View Post
    It really isn't hard at all to see the significance Ararat has for armenians. All you have to do is go to Yerevan on a clear day and just look at the huge mountain which towers over our capital city every day. For those who live there it is a part of their everyday life, a unmistakable presence. Today we see it only form one side (arguably the better side). Befor the genocide that mountain was surrounded by armenians on all sides so i think even bell can figure out that something as grand as this mountain sitting in the center of the armenian population would certainly have great meaning and attachment to the people living around it. All one has to do (even someone like bell) is go to yerevan and look at ararat from one of the tall buildings there and you will know what that mountain means to us. Hey i should also mention that many of our national heroes climbed that mountain like khachatur abovian, mesrob mashtos....
    Now that's an answer I wish I could've said

    Leave a comment:


  • Haykakan
    replied
    Re: How do Armenian feel about Mount Ararat?

    It really isn't hard at all to see the significance Ararat has for armenians. All you have to do is go to Yerevan on a clear day and just look at the huge mountain which towers over our capital city every day. For those who live there it is a part of their everyday life, a unmistakable presence. Today we see it only form one side (arguably the better side). Befor the genocide that mountain was surrounded by armenians on all sides so i think even bell can figure out that something as grand as this mountain sitting in the center of the armenian population would certainly have great meaning and attachment to the people living around it. All one has to do (even someone like bell) is go to yerevan and look at ararat from one of the tall buildings there and you will know what that mountain means to us. Hey i should also mention that many of our national heroes climbed that mountain like khachatur abovian, mesrob mashtos....

    Leave a comment:


  • jgk3
    replied
    Re: How do Armenian feel about Mount Ararat?

    Originally posted by yerazhishda View Post
    Mods,

    Why was Armenian banned yet bell-the-cat is allowed to freely insult people? Yedtarts brought up a good point that was meant to get this thread back on topic yet bell-the-cat had to ruin it...please restore dignity to this forum.

    Thank you.
    he's not allowed to freely insult anyone, no one is. He's big on how one approaches an argument, I think that is what his "insults" were directed to. So long as it's within limits, he can do that, though I would encourage people to use more friendly language regardless, otherwise, hostilities will quickly build and then you can count on the mods to get involved.

    Bell is challenging our attitudes towards Ararat on the grounds that we supposedly aren't literate enough to understand how it has been historically used in the last few centuries as a patriotic symbol for Armenians. Prove to him otherwise or consider his criticism if you think it applies to you.

    These are some of my thoughts regarding this idea of "literacy" by bell.

    He has no regard for anything esoteric, spiritual, based on traditional social hierarchy, or having to do with ancient mythology however (and does not see what it has to do with understanding the history and underlying character of a race, and thus, its civilization). Having not been to Armenia or seen Ararat, am I a fool to even consider Ararat's significance to my civilization in this way?

    As a literate, am I damned to use the lenses that analyze what a race is based on how its meager people are to live in a modern society, with modern concepts of patriotism, instead of seeking my inspiration out of my race's ancient past, or rather, it's entire legacy?

    It's not like if I go to Armenia or even climb Ararat, I will suddenly abandon my "illiterate" understanding of Ararat. In fact, I anticipate it will become more potent in me, because I see it as more than just a national symbol, it is a spiritual site, staring at me from the distance or lending me its ground to walk or climb on.

    Why must everything be reduced to the most materialistic and mundane level in order to give an adequate answer to the OP? "Oh, Ararat is just this national symbol Armenians coined in the 19th century", as though we pulled Ararat out of our ass on day as a statement to the Ottomans, and that's it.

    Having said this, I still appreciate bell's contribution here in terms of explaining what we have done with Ararat as a national symbol, I just disagree with the reductionism associated with his understanding of how a people are to view themselves and the world around them. I feel that it just sucks the life out of the means I have to know exactly who I am, an Armenian.
    Last edited by jgk3; 02-06-2009, 09:15 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • bell-the-cat
    replied
    Re: How do Armenian feel about Mount Ararat?

    Originally posted by Yedtarts View Post
    Maybe I should’ve showed my boobs so educated and knowledgeable people like you would understand better what Ararat meant to me?
    The truth probably is that you have no deep, meaningful feelings about Ararat.

    Are you going to go to Gyumri and clothe the statue - like that fool Ashcroft did in America to the allegorical figure of Justice that stands in their supreme court - and become a public laughing-stock? If you do, don't forget all those buxom female statues on the Yerevan maternity hospital.

    Justice Dept. Covers Nude Statues
    And he wasn't the first, or the last.
    Naked-Justice
    Last edited by bell-the-cat; 02-07-2009, 10:30 AM. Reason: url added

    Leave a comment:


  • yerazhishda
    replied
    Re: How do Armenian feel about Mount Ararat?

    Originally posted by bell-the-cat View Post
    You are pathetic. My posts were all as a response to the OP's question or leading off from posts made by others. And they were interesting. Maybe you should get off your arse and try to answer the question of the OP yourself.
    Mods,

    Why was Armenian banned yet bell-the-cat is allowed to freely insult people? Yedtarts brought up a good point that was meant to get this thread back on topic yet bell-the-cat had to ruin it...please restore dignity to this forum.

    Thank you.

    Leave a comment:


  • Yedtarts
    replied
    Re: How do Armenian feel about Mount Ararat?

    Originally posted by bell-the-cat View Post
    To which the OP replied
    "I am looking for deep meaningful feeling and history. Just saying something or showing a picture does not do justice".
    Maybe I should’ve showed my boobs so educated and knowledgeable people like you would understand better what Ararat meant to me?

    Leave a comment:


  • bell-the-cat
    replied
    Re: How do Armenian feel about Mount Ararat?

    Originally posted by Yedtarts View Post
    I was there long time ago.

    To which the OP replied
    "I am looking for deep meaningful feeling and history. Just saying something or showing a picture does not do justice".

    Leave a comment:


  • Yedtarts
    replied
    Re: How do Armenian feel about Mount Ararat?

    Originally posted by bell-the-cat View Post
    You are pathetic. My posts were all as a response to the OP's question or leading off from posts made by others. And they were interesting. Maybe you should get off your arse and try to answer the question of the OP yourself.
    I was there long time ago.



    Where we discuss more serious topics like philosophy, politics, history etc

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X