How do Armenian feel about Mount Ararat?

[jgk3]

And it is more or less a copy of what I said a lot earlier. Not that I expect you to see or to admit that, because, if I, as a non-Armenian, can express exactly the same answer, it doesn't say much for the breadth or depth of your own feelings, does it?

It was you who asked the accusative question about whether I have seen Ararat. And if I had had answered "no I have not", I quess would have got as a response some contempt-filled words telling me that I was talking about something I knew nothing about.

Maybe. The fact that you did see it (several times) and provided the response you did to the question is a striking statement to us Armenians. We just happen to be the subjects who feel a sense of attachment or imagination towards it, and you recognize this as a nationalist sentiment exhibited by Armenians.

I'll admit, I can be suspicious sometimes of how otars regard these things.

I apologize, I don't think I was thinking of your response that is rather similar in content to Haykakan's when I made my criticism earlier.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: How do Armenian feel about Mount Ararat?

Now that's an answer I wish I could've said

And it is similar to what I had written a lot earlier. Not that I expect you to see or to admit that, because, if I, as a non-Armenian, can express exactly the same answer, it doesn't say much for the breadth or depth of your own feelings, does it?

It really isn't hard at all to see the significance Ararat has for armenians. All you have to do is go to Yerevan on a clear day and just look at the huge mountain which towers over our capital city every day. For those who live there it is a part of their everyday life, a unmistakable presence. Today we see it only form one side (arguably the better side). Befor the genocide that mountain was surrounded by armenians on all sides so i think even bell can figure out that something as grand as this mountain sitting in the center of the armenian population would certainly have great meaning and attachment to the people living around it. All one has to do (even someone like bell) is go to yerevan and look at ararat from one of the tall buildings there and you will know what that mountain means to us.

Such is the small size of the country and the height of the mountain, most of the population of Armenia can see Ararat and, with that seeing, there is always the pain of knowing that it is not part of Armenia's territory, that it is now part of a country which tried to exterminate the Armenian nation, and that they cannot visit it. So even though most of the cultural reasons that once gave such mountain peaks significance (the abode of the Gods, and such like) are no longer applicable, on a basic level the physical presence of Ararat guarantees its continuing cultural importance.

And it was you who asked me the accusative question about whether I have seen Ararat, I never brought it up. If I had had answered "no I have not", I quess would have got as a response from you some contempt-filled words telling me that I was talking about something I knew nothing about.

[jgk3]

Re: How do Armenian feel about Mount Ararat?

It really isn't hard at all to see the significance Ararat has for armenians. All you have to do is go to Yerevan on a clear day and just look at the huge mountain which towers over our capital city every day. For those who live there it is a part of their everyday life, a unmistakable presence. Today we see it only form one side (arguably the better side). Befor the genocide that mountain was surrounded by armenians on all sides so i think even bell can figure out that something as grand as this mountain sitting in the center of the armenian population would certainly have great meaning and attachment to the people living around it. All one has to do (even someone like bell) is go to yerevan and look at ararat from one of the tall buildings there and you will know what that mountain means to us. Hey i should also mention that many of our national heroes climbed that mountain like khachatur abovian, mesrob mashtos....

Now that's an answer I wish I could've said

[Haykakan]

Re: How do Armenian feel about Mount Ararat?

It really isn't hard at all to see the significance Ararat has for armenians. All you have to do is go to Yerevan on a clear day and just look at the huge mountain which towers over our capital city every day. For those who live there it is a part of their everyday life, a unmistakable presence. Today we see it only form one side (arguably the better side). Befor the genocide that mountain was surrounded by armenians on all sides so i think even bell can figure out that something as grand as this mountain sitting in the center of the armenian population would certainly have great meaning and attachment to the people living around it. All one has to do (even someone like bell) is go to yerevan and look at ararat from one of the tall buildings there and you will know what that mountain means to us. Hey i should also mention that many of our national heroes climbed that mountain like khachatur abovian, mesrob mashtos....

[jgk3]

Re: How do Armenian feel about Mount Ararat?

Mods,

Why was Armenian banned yet bell-the-cat is allowed to freely insult people? Yedtarts brought up a good point that was meant to get this thread back on topic yet bell-the-cat had to ruin it...please restore dignity to this forum.

Thank you.

he's not allowed to freely insult anyone, no one is. He's big on how one approaches an argument, I think that is what his "insults" were directed to. So long as it's within limits, he can do that, though I would encourage people to use more friendly language regardless, otherwise, hostilities will quickly build and then you can count on the mods to get involved.

Bell is challenging our attitudes towards Ararat on the grounds that we supposedly aren't literate enough to understand how it has been historically used in the last few centuries as a patriotic symbol for Armenians. Prove to him otherwise or consider his criticism if you think it applies to you.

These are some of my thoughts regarding this idea of "literacy" by bell.

He has no regard for anything esoteric, spiritual, based on traditional social hierarchy, or having to do with ancient mythology however (and does not see what it has to do with understanding the history and underlying character of a race, and thus, its civilization). Having not been to Armenia or seen Ararat, am I a fool to even consider Ararat's significance to my civilization in this way?

As a literate, am I damned to use the lenses that analyze what a race is based on how its meager people are to live in a modern society, with modern concepts of patriotism, instead of seeking my inspiration out of my race's ancient past, or rather, it's entire legacy?

It's not like if I go to Armenia or even climb Ararat, I will suddenly abandon my "illiterate" understanding of Ararat. In fact, I anticipate it will become more potent in me, because I see it as more than just a national symbol, it is a spiritual site, staring at me from the distance or lending me its ground to walk or climb on.

Why must everything be reduced to the most materialistic and mundane level in order to give an adequate answer to the OP? "Oh, Ararat is just this national symbol Armenians coined in the 19th century", as though we pulled Ararat out of our ass on day as a statement to the Ottomans, and that's it.

Having said this, I still appreciate bell's contribution here in terms of explaining what we have done with Ararat as a national symbol, I just disagree with the reductionism associated with his understanding of how a people are to view themselves and the world around them. I feel that it just sucks the life out of the means I have to know exactly who I am, an Armenian.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: How do Armenian feel about Mount Ararat?

Maybe I should’ve showed my boobs so educated and knowledgeable people like you would understand better what Ararat meant to me?

The truth probably is that you have no deep, meaningful feelings about Ararat.

Are you going to go to Gyumri and clothe the statue - like that fool Ashcroft did in America to the allegorical figure of Justice that stands in their supreme court - and become a public laughing-stock? If you do, don't forget all those buxom female statues on the Yerevan maternity hospital.

Justice Dept. Covers Nude Statues
And he wasn't the first, or the last.
Naked-Justice

[yerazhishda]

Re: How do Armenian feel about Mount Ararat?

You are pathetic. My posts were all as a response to the OP's question or leading off from posts made by others. And they were interesting. Maybe you should get off your arse and try to answer the question of the OP yourself.

Mods,

Why was Armenian banned yet bell-the-cat is allowed to freely insult people? Yedtarts brought up a good point that was meant to get this thread back on topic yet bell-the-cat had to ruin it...please restore dignity to this forum.

Thank you.

[Yedtarts]

Re: How do Armenian feel about Mount Ararat?

To which the OP replied
"I am looking for deep meaningful feeling and history. Just saying something or showing a picture does not do justice".

Maybe I should’ve showed my boobs so educated and knowledgeable people like you would understand better what Ararat meant to me?

[bell-the-cat]

Re: How do Armenian feel about Mount Ararat?

I was there long time ago.

http://forum.hyeclub.com/showpost.php?p=254809&postcount=9

To which the OP replied
"I am looking for deep meaningful feeling and history. Just saying something or showing a picture does not do justice".

[Yedtarts]

Re: How do Armenian feel about Mount Ararat?

You are pathetic. My posts were all as a response to the OP's question or leading off from posts made by others. And they were interesting. Maybe you should get off your arse and try to answer the question of the OP yourself.

I was there long time ago.

http://forum.hyeclub.com/showpost.php?p=254809&postcount=9

http://forum.hyeclub.com/showthread.php?t=16023