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Re: Traditional man and country
I don’t see why! I asked you simple questions in two threads and you haven’t answered them so I’d appreciate it if you did.
What are you suggesting, that I haven’t found myself or that all the people in the world who don’t go around blowing each other when they feel like it haven’t found themselves? I'm sorry but you have no idea what "finding your true self" really means or even feels like. I've been through that myself and have seen many people that really have found their true selves and their nothing like the people you described. You misunderstand what I’m saying and I don’t blame you, I blame your research. The town I’m talking about was not on Discovery channel. My family was there and everyone was living in the same world we live in. They weren’t cutoff from everyone. They still interacted with money and had everything they needed to live happy lives NOT because everyone was rich as hell but because of the way the town worked. Your “research” is wrong, my friend. Economics and everything don’t dictate everything.
The town you mentioned broke down because it was already unstable so money and the evils of this world easily broke it down. The town I’M talking about … WAS PREPARED … mentally, physically, and most importantly … spiritually and morally. Their foundation was strong. They lived like real human beings and I couldn’t believe what I saw with the two eyes in my head.
Your research doesn’t allow you to see a lot of things, yekhpayr. Start living more…
And like I said, freedom comes from knowledge, not just when you have all the xxxxx and money in the world! Try to go deeper into what I’m saying, don’t look at it all in a primitive way. I have also done research.
Ignoring all that already means your hiding away from everything. I think you have a problem with religion, traditions, and economy, not freedom itself, and that's why you will never be free. Your arguments aren’t really based on cold hard facts, to tell you the truth.
I love my family. They have thought me how to be a good human being, how life works, and how to live in any society. I very much disapprove how you place such less importance on your family and everything else other then your views. I have seen families that were SO poor, they couldn’t afford a proper meal but you know how happy they were? In my life, I have sat down with all kinds of people starting from the very rich to the very poor and the very poor were happier then the very rich. Explain this, won’t you? I can, let’s see how you do it!
True, but what we need to understand is that we don’t need to escape. We need to always remember that we aren’t in this world to be independent. We aren’t here to enjoy. Even if we aren’t bounded to the laws mentioned above, we are STILL bounded to some laws and we always will be until we get out of this damn world.
I’d like to talk about that town again I mentioned. AGAIN and AGAIN. They also went through economic issues and everything we go through but they lived prosperous lives. WHY? What is the difference between where we live and where they live? Why are they different? Let’s see if your research will give you the right answer Haykakan (no pun intended).
Very true but again, I ask this very seriously. How does the town I mentioned exist peacefully with the worlds evils in their midst? A simple question.
Cite examples in history please. Give me names of nations, kingdoms, towns, or villages (other then your interesting tribe) that practiced serial monogamy for years, without any problems. There’s a reason why people didn’t live this way and it’s not only because couples needed possessions!
I’m sure they didn’t have any Gods because serial monogamy is against most religions. Plus, Haykakan only saw it all in Discovery channel so I suggest he doesn’t place too much emphasis on it. I still don’t clearly imagine what that tribe was like.
That kinda depends on the viewer!
Could you please describe your values in detail? I really want to know, Haykakan jan.
It’s actually rather strange then cool, I’ll be frank. And you don’t need to practices serial monogamy to experience this kind of respect.
I’m sorry, yekhpayr, but I think your basing too much of your research on just one little tribe. I know a household in India that is comprised of four people … three men and one women who is the wife of all three. Whenever one man wants to spend some time with his “wife”, he places a stick next to the door to let the other two men know that he’s inside. The women lives with all these men and they live their lives in an unusual, not cool, way. No one seemed very happy. Now, should I base my research or my views on this one household and tell the world that one women should have more then one husband? Should I start posting that THAT is the HUMAN way of life?
Saco i understand your perspective and it is probably shared by many but you really do not disprove or even make valid arguments against the points i made.I also very much disagree with your conclusion that "man must never have too much independence".
I very much believe that finding your true self and being who you really are is better then living in a unnatural state dictated by economics or religion or.... It would sure be hard to be your natural self in todays society and hardly anyone is but knowing what that state is,is like finding yourself.
The town you mentioned broke down because it was already unstable so money and the evils of this world easily broke it down. The town I’M talking about … WAS PREPARED … mentally, physically, and most importantly … spiritually and morally. Their foundation was strong. They lived like real human beings and I couldn’t believe what I saw with the two eyes in my head.
Your research doesn’t allow you to see a lot of things, yekhpayr. Start living more…
And like I said, freedom comes from knowledge, not just when you have all the xxxxx and money in the world! Try to go deeper into what I’m saying, don’t look at it all in a primitive way. I have also done research.
Understanding humans and humanity for what it really is has been a liberating experience in many ways it also makes you very hard to lose most arguments because you are not hiding behind some artificial wall like religion or economicly based norms.
It is not easy to shed what your parents, society, church....have been pounding into your head about how you should be and i can hardly claim to have succeeded but if you can look at things objectively the whole world will look a lot clearer to you.
You can't escape religion, you are bounded by laws.
You can't escape society, you are dependent on it.
You can't escape economy, its how you get shelter, food.
You can't escape society, you are dependent on it.
You can't escape economy, its how you get shelter, food.
I’d like to talk about that town again I mentioned. AGAIN and AGAIN. They also went through economic issues and everything we go through but they lived prosperous lives. WHY? What is the difference between where we live and where they live? Why are they different? Let’s see if your research will give you the right answer Haykakan (no pun intended).
Excellent point. Money is a measure of the value we put on material objects and services. The more rare things are, the higher value we put on them. There is an ABUNDANCE of diamonds on the planet.... yet we pay an absurd amount for them... why? Are they rare? In essence, no.... but because you can't find one in your backyard, you pay the price. Why do we value a shiny rock? Somebody convinced society it was rare and ever since, we've been blindly using it for cultural reasons. Is it really a measure of "love". Of course not, but try convincing society it isn't.
My ideas are not in any way based on Marx or any other thinker, they are my own.I base my theories on facts and observation gathered by valid scientific research.The south merican tribe I mentioned was living proof that people have not always been materialistic.That same example also showed you how money completely transformed that society once it was introduced,Did you not read my post?
It transformed it because their foundation was unstable in every way. Being able to do whatever you want … in itself … is already completely materialistic. My town didn’t. Why Haykakan? Why?
This is absolutly not what i am saying, i am saying that we as humans have a natural way of living and existing and that money, possesions, religion..alter this natural state of humanity.
Haykakan, in your scientific research, how do you approach the belief systems and rituals of the people being studied in your research? Could you elaborate a bit on how the South American tribe you brought up interpreted the world they lived in, how they understood the balance of nature, what kind of gods they had, etc... How does your science interpret their mythology and rituals?
The sexual freedom for both sexes was also very interesting and refreshing to witness.
Religion is a set of believes that help people explain the unexplained(especially what happens after life) and in some cases these believes also dictate how one should live his mortal life as well. I prefer to use science and rational thinking to explain the unexplained and i use my own set of values (not based on religion) to guide me through life.
Could you please describe your values in detail? I really want to know, Haykakan jan.
The acceptance of all the childeren by the men of that society was also cool to witness.
I’m sorry, yekhpayr, but I think your basing too much of your research on just one little tribe. I know a household in India that is comprised of four people … three men and one women who is the wife of all three. Whenever one man wants to spend some time with his “wife”, he places a stick next to the door to let the other two men know that he’s inside. The women lives with all these men and they live their lives in an unusual, not cool, way. No one seemed very happy. Now, should I base my research or my views on this one household and tell the world that one women should have more then one husband? Should I start posting that THAT is the HUMAN way of life?
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