Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!)

1] What you CAN NOT post.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is:
- abusive
- vulgar
- hateful
- harassing
- personal attacks
- obscene

You also may not:
- post images that are too large (max is 500*500px)
- post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or cited properly.
- post in UPPER CASE, which is considered yelling
- post messages which insult the Armenians, Armenian culture, traditions, etc
- post racist or other intentionally insensitive material that insults or attacks another culture (including Turks)

The Ankap thread is excluded from the strict rules because that place is more relaxed and you can vent and engage in light insults and humor. Notice it's not a blank ticket, but just a place to vent. If you go into the Ankap thread, you enter at your own risk of being clowned on.
What you PROBABLY SHOULD NOT post...
Do not post information that you will regret putting out in public. This site comes up on Google, is cached, and all of that, so be aware of that as you post. Do not ask the staff to go through and delete things that you regret making available on the web for all to see because we will not do it. Think before you post!


2] Use descriptive subject lines & research your post. This means use the SEARCH.

This reduces the chances of double-posting and it also makes it easier for people to see what they do/don't want to read. Using the search function will identify existing threads on the topic so we do not have multiple threads on the same topic.

3] Keep the focus.

Each forum has a focus on a certain topic. Questions outside the scope of a certain forum will either be moved to the appropriate forum, closed, or simply be deleted. Please post your topic in the most appropriate forum. Users that keep doing this will be warned, then banned.

4] Behave as you would in a public location.

This forum is no different than a public place. Behave yourself and act like a decent human being (i.e. be respectful). If you're unable to do so, you're not welcome here and will be made to leave.

5] Respect the authority of moderators/admins.

Public discussions of moderator/admin actions are not allowed on the forum. It is also prohibited to protest moderator actions in titles, avatars, and signatures. If you don't like something that a moderator did, PM or email the moderator and try your best to resolve the problem or difference in private.

6] Promotion of sites or products is not permitted.

Advertisements are not allowed in this venue. No blatant advertising or solicitations of or for business is prohibited.
This includes, but not limited to, personal resumes and links to products or
services with which the poster is affiliated, whether or not a fee is charged
for the product or service. Spamming, in which a user posts the same message repeatedly, is also prohibited.

7] We retain the right to remove any posts and/or Members for any reason, without prior notice.


- PLEASE READ -

Members are welcome to read posts and though we encourage your active participation in the forum, it is not required. If you do participate by posting, however, we expect that on the whole you contribute something to the forum. This means that the bulk of your posts should not be in "fun" threads (e.g. Ankap, Keep & Kill, This or That, etc.). Further, while occasionally it is appropriate to simply voice your agreement or approval, not all of your posts should be of this variety: "LOL Member213!" "I agree."
If it is evident that a member is simply posting for the sake of posting, they will be removed.


8] These Rules & Guidelines may be amended at any time. (last update September 17, 2009)

If you believe an individual is repeatedly breaking the rules, please report to admin/moderator.
See more
See less

Free Will

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #51
    I agree. Your negative interjections are not only pointless but distracting. If you have nothing to add, then just stay out.
    Sweet is the lore which nature brings; our meddling intellect misshapes the beauteous forms of things: we murder to dissect.

    -William Wordsworth

    Comment


    • #52
      Originally posted by Anonymouse You know, in all the time that you've been here, I've yet to see anything intelligent that you've contributed to any discussion aside from one-liners.
      These pointless discussions have been done, redone, and overdone. My outburtsts are much like your "this thread sucks" posts.
      If I've contributed nothing why did you vote me best all around forumer. Hmmmm
      The times are tough now, just getting tougher
      This old world is rough, it's just getting rougher
      Cover me, come on baby, cover me - Bruce Springsteen

      Comment


      • #53
        Originally posted by patlajan These pointless discussions have been done, redone, and overdone. My outburtsts are much like your "this thread sucks" posts.
        If I've contributed nothing why did you vote me best all around forumer. Hmmmm
        Irony.
        Achkerov kute.

        Comment


        • #54
          All right. You said God's existence preceded all, which negates your previous postulation of the eternality of the soul. So that takes us back to the original question - what determines the character of the soul? You seem to have already answered that it is God, that he determines all. He gives us the ability to choose between whatever options we may have, but it is he that creates us with a certain predisposition to make decisions that follow a certain pattern that we refer to as "character." While this doesn't completely negate free will, it does pretty seriously undermine it as well as making God largely responsible for a great deal of evil. Furthermore, it makes him awfully petty to lay the blame entirely on us when it should so obviously be on him.
          Sweet is the lore which nature brings; our meddling intellect misshapes the beauteous forms of things: we murder to dissect.

          -William Wordsworth

          Comment


          • #55
            Originally posted by loseyourname All right. You said God's existence preceded all, which negates your previous postulation of the eternality of the soul. So that takes us back to the original question - what determines the character of the soul? You seem to have already answered that it is God, that he determines all. He gives us the ability to choose between whatever options we may have, but it is he that creates us with a certain predisposition to make decisions that follow a certain pattern that we refer to as "character." While this doesn't completely negate free will, it does pretty seriously undermine it as well as making God largely responsible for a great deal of evil. Furthermore, it makes him awfully petty to lay the blame entirely on us when it should so obviously be on him.
            If God has ordained us with free will, like I've said for a thousand times, and in order for man to be free to do good, he must be free to do evil. If you want to argue that somehow this makes God indirectly responsible, go for it.
            Achkerov kute.

            Comment


            • #56
              You're not listening to me. I'm not arguing that if God allows evil, he is responsible for it. I'm arguing that if His existence preceded that of our souls, then it is he that created those souls. It is He that created evil souls that perpetrate evil acts. That being the case, then yes, He is responsible for evil. The only way to get around this is to say that he created souls that were blank slates, completely devoid of character. But if this is the case, then what is it that determines the character of the soul? Nobody is going to deny the existence of character. Regardless of the existence of free will, there are some people who are predisposed to committing evil acts and others who are not. Why is this, and what is responsible? If not God, then I want to know what.
              Sweet is the lore which nature brings; our meddling intellect misshapes the beauteous forms of things: we murder to dissect.

              -William Wordsworth

              Comment


              • #57
                I am exercising my free will and reviving this thread. Suffer the wrath.
                Sweet is the lore which nature brings; our meddling intellect misshapes the beauteous forms of things: we murder to dissect.

                -William Wordsworth

                Comment


                • #58
                  I've been noticing lately that in some situations I dont really have free will......as athletes we have to do "study hall" and I really don't need to do it and I dont wanna do it, but it's mandatory, and it's out of my hands...I hate it....another thing, my freakin coach made me move out and live by the university, and I didn't wanna move out, but she like totally forced me to, I had no choice. After living out for about 2 weeks I hated it, and now secretly I'm living at my house........basically if she finds out i might get kicked out of the team.....I mean where is my free will? I wanna freakin live wherever I would like to live and do whatever i want..screw the mandatory rules that she comes up with!lol.....(i know my examples are all tennis related, but it's a big part of my life, sorry)lol.......
                  "Life doesnt require us to be the biggest or the best, but it asks us to try"

                  Comment


                  • #59
                    Nan, your arguments cut right to the heart of what I initially wanted to get at with this thread. As I mentioned at the beginning, I don't subscribe to contracausal freedom. The very idea is ridiculous. Basically, modes of action are separated into two distinct categories: one is caused, and therefore determined and unfree, the other is uncaused and therefore free. First off, if strict determinism is correct, then all determined events are unfree; that is, they are traceable all the way back through a series of causes and could have been predicted. However, I see no reason to view an uncaused event as free. That which is uncaused is completely random. Free will must involve some form of conscious decision-making process; that is, a free agent may not know ahead of time what he will do, but he must be able to cause a certain mental event to occur. With this argument in hand, I turn to a compatibilist form of freedom. W.T Stace begins his argument with an assessment of decisions that we would commonly agree are free and are those that are not free.

                    Unfree decisions include those that fstkhnan speaks of: being forced to live somewhere that she does not want to live and to do things that she does not want to do. Free decisions include her decision to live where she wants to anyway. Stace then analyzes what it is that makes these decisions different from one another. The conclusion is that the unfree decisions have a cause originating outside of the free agent's own psyche. Nan here is being forced to do something. The cause of her decision is directly traceable to her tennis coach. Her decision to live in her house, however, is traceable only to her. Nothing external to her psyche coerced her into making this decision; it is hers and hers alone.

                    So, in conclusion, that is what separates a free decision from an unfree decision. The free decision is simply that which originates in the psyche, or the self, of the agent making the decision. Whether or not this act is truly free is another story, although it would fit the common definition. Whether or not it is truly free depends largely on the nature of consciousness itself. If consciousness is entirely a biochemical process that strictly follows the laws of physics and can be traced to a series of causes that existed prior to the arising of the consciousness itself, then the decision is not technically free. However, I'm not sure that this is even relevant, as again, the common defitition and understanding of freedom does not seem to take such things into consideration.
                    Sweet is the lore which nature brings; our meddling intellect misshapes the beauteous forms of things: we murder to dissect.

                    -William Wordsworth

                    Comment


                    • #60
                      yeah I see ur point there, and I pretty much understand what u mean and agree as well....it's well written and explained.....
                      "Life doesnt require us to be the biggest or the best, but it asks us to try"

                      Comment

                      Working...
                      X