Turkey and minorities

[Federate]

Re: Turkey and minorities

Perhaps with the launching of WiMAX network in Yerevan and 18 other "cities" in Armenia, Internet access has multiplied greatly since the last time you visited the country, Bell.

[AlphaPapa]

Re: Turkey and minorities

%90?



Many of them aware that nearly no one in Anatolia is from %100 Turkic race. Probably the mountain nomads, called "Yoruk" are. I read an article about them and they are too few these days. So, thats also why Turks see themselves as a 'nation'.

However, while carrying different ethnic bloods, none of those supress the others. Just an example, here is one of my "Turkish" friend's ethnic root as he says:

GrandGPa (Ahiskan Turk) - GrandGMa (Ahiskan Turk) GrandGPa (%50 Armenian %50 Turk) - GrandGMa (%25 Armenian %75 Azeri) GrandGPa (Albanian) - GrandGMa (Albanian) GrandGPa (%50 Kurd %50 Turk) - GrandGMa (%50 Arab %50 Turk)

GrandPa (Ahiskan Turk)-GrandMa (%37,5 Armenian %25 Turk % 37,5 Azeri) GrandPa (Albanian)-GrandMa (%25 Kurd %25 Arab %50 Turk)

Father (%50 Ahiskan Turk %18,75 Armenian %12,5 Turk %18,75 Azeri) - Mother (%50 Albanian %12,5 Kurd %12,5 Arab %25 Turk)

My Friend (%25 Ahiskan Turk %25 Albanian %12,5 Turk %9,375 Armenian %9,375 Azeri %6,25 Arab %6,25 Kurd)


This is what Turkish nation is. You can also put Bosniaks, Cherkezs, Abhazs, Greeks, Lazs, Georgians... in to that soup. They already know their ethnic heritage; however they have LOTS of. Not only Armenian or Greek. Thats why it would not work for most of the population. They call this equation as "Turkish nation", so.. they are not like Armenians or Georgians. Theres no one pure (?) race here. And my friend is proud of his roots.

There is no one pure, because each person must reject all of his Kurdish, Armenian, Laz and other non-Turkic history and accept themselves as ETHNIC Turks, to be 'true' Turkish citizens.

You're proving my point, if you add in the reality of the race-based policies Ataturk implemented, ironically, counter to the historic Turkish identity (who wore turbans, wrote with Arabic script, ect).

He is NOT a Turk (modern definition, by Turkish standards) if he is proud of his ethnic diversity. This is why the government of Turkey struggles to accept the term 'ethnic cleansing' because along with that, it not only admits guilt to a national pride (liberation from imperialists = genocide) but also would be forced to admit that ASALA / PKK were justified the whole time they acted in revenge.

[AlphaPapa]

Re: Turkey and minorities

I don't know who you are but you lost me there buddy,never again under a Turkish flag, you can't ask us that not after what we've been through.

First of all, when you say 'never again' don't speak for yourself if you weren't born there.
Second, I wasn't talking to you.
Third, go read this book:

because he listed it as an eventual reality that is more probable than an actual liberated Western Armenian Republic.

Simply put (if you choose to not read his detailed explanation), we'll never be able to get it back since most diasporans are too comfortable in the west, Armenia is too weak to do so, even if somehow Turkey were crippled, and no world organization (LON, UN) will ever do for us what was done for Israel.

[AlphaPapa]

Re: Turkey and minorities

Here are some estimated numbers made public by Turkey in 2000:

¨

To make it a little more easier to read the numbers:

Armenians: 50 000-93 500

J_ews: 25 000-26 114

Greeks: 3 270-4 000

--

I`m not surprised by the low numbers for the Greek minority.(the pogrom against the Greeks in 1955 but also other minorities as well and the expulsion of the remaining Greeks in 1963)

I love the statistics from the 1930's...they claimed all people living in Turkey were Turks (100%).

[Gavur]

Re: Turkey and minorities

What are you talking about?
Don't speak for myself?
)))

[AlphaPapa]

Re: Turkey and minorities

Too many tools on this forum. Go join a turkish forum, you can tickle one another there.

This is not patriotic (Armenian). We should allow them to learn the facts and face their own government. Do you really hear/read/understand Turkish propaganda? The truth from an aware Turk is worth a thousand Armenians with signs standing outside the Turkish Embassy saying the same thing.

Let me put it like this: in the US there used to be a strong bias against people because of skin color. The Turks do not claim any biological superiority, only moral, psychological, and moral. With a conscious awakening, they would be bankrupted of their reasons to hate Armenians and accept us and our historic claims.

[Armanen]

Re: Turkey and minorities

This is not patriotic (Armenian). We should allow them to learn the facts and face their own government. Do you really hear/read/understand Turkish propaganda? The truth from an aware Turk is worth a thousand Armenians with signs standing outside the Turkish Embassy saying the same thing.

Let me put it like this: in the US there used to be a strong bias against people because of skin color. The Turks do not claim any biological superiority, only moral, psychological, and moral. With a conscious awakening, they would be bankrupted of their reasons to hate Armenians and accept us and our historic claims.

Yes, I can see what you mean and I do agree with some notions. But you should read the opening post of the Armenian-turkish relations thread. Armenian outlined the three or so types of turks you will run into, most are the ones who are hostile and/or not willing to take Armenian claims seriously.

I have read about turkish propaganda as well as propaganda in general, so I know it when I see it and I realize that sometimes propaganda serves a positive role in society, though this is not the case with turkey. Also, Armenians are more concerned with turks than vice versa, turks have a number of other ethnic groups with whom they have historical issues with.

[Alexandros]

Re: Turkey and minorities

[email protected] Columnists


Broadcasting in local languages and dialects (1)

16 November 2009, Monday

Parliament on Friday discussed the government’s democratic initiative aimed at ultimately ending Turkey’s long-standing problem with separatist violence by revising its policy toward minorities.

In the latest session of Parliament, the government and the opposition entered with drastically different expectations, but the government is taking action to implement its policy and hopes to collect the immediate fruits of this initiative.

In line with the initiative, the government has launched an amendment, which is, in my humble opinion, very important. The new legislation came into force just recently, on Nov. 13. The reason I am interested in this particular legislation is that it directly affects the social and cultural life of local Turkish people. The legislation is not a law but a communiqué. The government already notified the public and the opposition that most of the regulations that need to be implemented are already in force but some minor administrative changes have to be made. The government also added that these regulations will be implemented without the interference of Parliament. The following regulation is made in this sense, and it is a communiqué.

The communiqué concerns television and radio broadcasting regulations, and the official name of the legislation is “Radio and Television Broadcasts Made in Various Languages and Dialects Traditionally Used by Turkish Citizens in Their Daily Lives.” Indeed, in this age of communication, technological advances and innovations have made it possible to overcome many prohibitions regarding broadcasting. You can see big antennas on the roofs of houses in the eastern part of Turkey. These antennas allow viewers to watch or listen to programs from different countries.

The preamble of the communiqué states the scope, purpose and definitions. The purpose of the legislation is to regulate broadcasting companies other than the Turkish Radio and Television Corporation (TRT) that broadcast in different languages and dialects that are used traditionally in the daily life of Turkish citizens.

The plural form used in the definition of the scope of the communiqué indicates that the regulation is not addressing only a single language, Kurdish. Indeed, the initiative is not addressing only Kurds; it is one of the steps to fix the long-standing problems faced by all minorities who are Turkish citizens. In other words, the legislation should also include broadcasting in all languages and dialects other than Turkish, including, but not limited to, Azerbaijani, Uzbek, Kazakh, Kyrgyz, the Karapapak dialect, Turkmen, Macedonian, Bulgarian, Chechen, Armenian, Greek, etc. All minorities who are Turkish citizens and who traditionally speak their own language will be able to broadcast programs in their own language or dialect.

Therefore, this communiqué encompasses a huge population and geographical area. The question in my mind is: Will Turkish citizens with foreign roots be able to have their languages broadcast on television and radio in Turkey? In the next article, I will mention the other details of this new regulation.

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NOTE: Berk Çektir is a licensed attorney at law and available to answer questions on the legal aspects of living in Turkey. Send enquiries to [email protected] The names of the readers are disclosed only upon written approval of the sender.

DISCLAIMER: The information provided here is intended to give basic legal information. You should get legal assistance from a licensed attorney at law while conducting legal transactions and not just rely on the information in this corner.

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[Alexandros]

Re: Turkey and minorities

Decision in Favour of Armenian Agos Newspaper Sparks Hopes

Criminal courts in the Istanbul district of Şişli convicted 4 people of insulting and threatening the Armenian Agos newspaper until the present day. The Şişli 2nd Magistrate Criminal Court currently tries defendant Celepoğlu under charges of "inciting hatred and hostility".

Erol ÖNDROĞLU Istanbul - BİA News Center15 December 2009, Tuesday

The Şişli (Istanbul) 2nd Magistrate Criminal Court handed down a 8,000 TL (€ 3640) monetary fine to Kenan Celepoğlu on the grounds of electronic mails he sent to the Armenian Agos newspaper which allegedly contained insults, threats and racism.

The lawyers of the weekly newspaper brought a charge against an unidentified person in December 2008. As a result of the investigation Celepoğlu was confirmed to live in Samsun (Black Sea coast) and a case was opened against him under charges of "insult via an oral or written message".

Further accusations

The Şişli court did not leave it at that. The court furthermore aggravated the penalty by taking the grave intend and the severity of the words into account.

Moreover, the court did not apply mitigation of punishment due to intended racism. The prosecution filed a criminal complaint concerning "threats", "inciting hatred and hostility and humiliating the public".

Çetin: Decision sparks hopes for judiciary system

Agos lawyer Fethiye Çetin emphasized that this decision is of great importance and that it sparks hopes for the establishment of a sense of justice.

"The case was launched with a negative start since it was opened due of 'insult' only, although we demanded punishment from several angles in our petition. The decision has corrected the negative start which I find very important".

Çetin recalled that the Şişli 1st Criminal Court of First Instance handed down a prison sentence without deduction to a defendant earlier this year. Again, the defendant stood accused for threatening Agos. It is a positive and hopeful sign for the Turkish judiciary system that this kind of racism and hostile actions are punished without applying deduction. In our opinion, these examples have an intimidating effect and are encouraging for other judges".

Fourth penalty for threat and insult against Agos

Muhammet Karay received a 3 years 3 months prison sentence from the Şişli 1st Criminal Court of First Instance on 28 May 2009 for threatening Agos newspaper employees and Armenians with the e-mails he had sent.

Zafer Filiz received a suspended prison sentence of 3 years from the Şişli 9th Criminal Court of First Instance on 20 March 2008 on the grounds of threatening the newspaper 12 days after the assassination of Turkish-Armenian Agos editor Hrant Dink.

The same court handed down a 2 years sentence to 19-year-old Rıdvan Doğan in October 2007 due to threats he had sent to the newspaper after the Dink murder. The sentence was suspended because the defendant had not been tried for any other crime, because he showed regret and was not expected to commit another crime. The court decreed to keep Doğan under supervision for 2 years. (EÖ/VK)

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[Alexandros]

Re: Turkey and minorities

ORHAN KEMAL CENGİZ [email protected] Columnists


Non-Muslims and Muslims need to unite for a freedom of religion act (1)

16 December 2009, Wednesday

Orthodox Christians, Catholics, Protestants, je_ws, Bahá’ís, Jehovah’s Witnesses -- in short every non-Muslim religious group -- has many problems in Turkey.

But also Sunni Muslims, Alevis and others have many problems, too. The unfortunate thing is that everyone thinks that “the others” have more rights than they themselves have. They think that they are the only ones who encounter so many problems and obstacles. Another illusion is that most groups hope that their problems will be solved by the state without they themselves having to expend much effort.

Turkey does not recognize religious communities, and only three have been indirectly recognized. Turkey “officially” recognizes so-called Lausanne minorities, and according to the official interpretation of this treaty, only Turkish citizens of Greek, Je_wish and Armenian descent are considered minorities. There is nothing in the Lausanne Treaty that can justify this official interpretation. According to the treaty, “non-Muslims” are Turkey’s minorities. How Turkish officials have come to this conclusion and narrowed the treaty to include only three groups is difficult to understand. I said this is an indirect recognition because in fact Turkey does not provide any legal identity to these groups. These non-Muslim groups have some foundations, but this does not mean that their religious institutions are recognized by Turkey. For example, the patriarchate in Turkey, which represents all Orthodox Christians all over the world, has no legal identity whatsoever. It is recognized in practice with a de facto status. In fact, there is no appropriate type of legal identity for this historic institution in Turkey. This type of legal identity needs to be created. No congregation has a legal identity as a congregation.

Before the laws on associations and foundations were changed, it was not possible to set up an association or foundation to support a specific religious group. These two laws were changed very recently, and it is now possible for religious minorities to establish associations and foundations. But for what? Is it for the recognition of their distinctive religious institutions? No, not at all. Now non-Muslims are allowed to have associations and foundations to establish a church or place of worship. But this does not mean that their church is recognized as such. Turkey now recognizes religious communities’ right to establish legal entities to build new places of worship. It is a little bit funny. You establish an association to establish a place of worship, but your place of worship is not recognized on its own because this is actually a temporary solution, which is found by way of analogy. In Turkey there are many associations to set up mosques, but once they are established, they have to be transferred to the state, to the Directorate of Religious Affairs. Muslims are allowed to set up associations to build a mosque, but once they build it, within three months, the right of ownership of the mosque has to be transferred to the directorate. A similar system has been offered to non-Muslim communities.

However, since there is no section in the Directorate of Religious Affairs dealing with churches, the ambiguity with regard to the legal status of churches continues.

I know it has already started to be too complex because we are talking about a problem that has historical and ideological implications and background.

Mosques belong to the state; churches may belong to an association or foundation, if you can ever manage to deal with the complex and cumbersome legal procedures. Even if you can manage to successfully overcome all these difficulties and open a church, then you will find yourself in a legal field that is full of traps in which you can fall at any moment. After all, foundations or associations are not appropriate legal structures for religious institutions, and gaining legal identities under these existing frames have their own handicaps. I will continue on this subject this Friday.

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