Genocide of the Serbs

[Merv]

Re: Genocide of the Serbs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srbosjek

Srbosjek (literally "Serb cutter" in Croatian and Serbian, often referred to as "cutthroat") was a specially designed knife used by the Ustaše during World War II for the speedy killing of prisoners in the concentration camps of the Nazi-puppet Independent State of Croatia (NDH), most notably the Jasenovac concentration camp. The victims were Serbs, Jews, and Roma, imprisoned on 'ethnic' grounds, and significant numbers of Croats, imprisoned on the grounds that they were Partisan resistance members, or on the suspicion of taking part in anti-fascist activities.[1]
Preferring to cut the throats of their concentration camp prisoners instead of gassing them, the Ustaše required a special tool. The knife was manufactured during World War II by German factory Gebrüder Gräfrath from Solingen-Widderit under a special order from the NDH government.[2]. Gebrüder Gräfrath was taken over in 1961 by Hubertus Solingen [3].
The upper part of the srbosjek was made of leather, as a sort of a glove, designed to be worn with the thumb going through the hole, so that only the blade protruded from the hand. It was a curved, 12 cm long knife with the edge on its concave side. The knife was fastened to a bowed oval copper plate, while the plate was fastened to a thick leather bangle. There was inscription "Gräwiso" on the leather part of the knife, and the knife was also known as the 'graviso knife' because of this. The blade was curved in order to make it easier to slit the throat of the victim, following the curvature of the neck.[2][4][5] Thus, the Srbosjek knife was designed to kill as fast as possible and with as little fatigue as possible.[6]
In the Jasenovac concentration camp competitions in speedy slaughter were organized by the Ustaše. The winner of one such competition, Petar Brzica slit the throats of 1,360 prisoners.[7]

[Merv]

Re: Genocide of the Serbs

Someone mentioned WWI. Whereas there was no genocide of Serbs in WWI (Austrians didn't want to particularly exterminate Serbs, as the Turks tried to do to Armenians), it was certainly a horrible time and at least 1/4 of the population of Serbia died of starvation, disease, and massacre. This is a British documentary that discusses certain interesting facts that I had not known before, including the fact that the 1914 assassination by Princip set off a wave of pogroms and executions against Bosnian Serbs all over Bosnia:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qY7fu_9czZE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pogM7wsy62M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0haAQAry6Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoBQquuS0CM

Also, apparently the Austrians used detention camps in WWI for Serbs, including a notorious one in Doboj in Bosnia in which 45,000 were incarcerated and 12,000 killed. Of course, even in WWI, Croats and Muslims in Bosnia were eager to participate in the pogroms and the massacres.

[Merv]

Re: Genocide of the Serbs

A possible example of an Armenian parasitically using events in Yugoslavia to publicise the Armenian genocide? See http://www.armenianweekly.com/2010/0...rk-conference/



And here is another, from the time of NATO's invasion of Kosovo, that completely dispells Tigranakert's "I have never met even one Armenian who supported the muslims in historic Serbian territory of Kosovo" comment. Not only has the Armenian writer of that article decded to completely ignore the history of Serbia and how closely it has resembled that of Armenia, but he has decided in a unprincipled way to accept as truth the NATO invented "genocide" in Kosovo for no other reason than to publicise the Armenian Genocide.

http://www.caia.org.uk/armenianvoice...dex.htm#link21

It is because of this ignorance that exists that I have posted this thread, in hopes that it may correct some people's wrong impressions. I have tried to do this with certain Jewish acquaintances of mine, and with Chinese people. Ironically, most Jewish people were dismissive whereas the Chinese were understanding. I suppose, coming from such an outsider perspective (Asians being largely outside of the loop on the dirty history of Europe), they did not come with prejudices that some others did. One Jewish guy who is ultra-pro Serb (way too much, in my view) is Victor Vancier.

[Merv]

Re: Genocide of the Serbs

Then you are in the minority of Armenians.

I remember being very disapointed that many Armenians (not wanting to miss the chance to go on in public about the Armenian Genocide) were agitating about how Kossovo must be invaded because the Kossovo Albanians were being massacred by Serbs just like the Turks massacred Armenians and history would repeat itself unless NATO acted to prevent a genocide.

Just like xxxs say they say there is only one holocaust, and nothing else compares to it, Armenians conveniently forget that, after Armenia, the nation that lost the most % of its population in WW1 was Serbia. And the nation that lost the most % of its population in WW2 was, yes, Serbia again.

On the contrary, I did not want to start any arguments here. I do not expect anything from anyone, but I am merely interested in bringing the truth forward. So many Serbs like me listen on a monthly, weekly, if not daily basis in the Western media that Serbs are genocidal, are rapists, "ethnic cleansers," monsters, etc. I don't deny that there were many atrocities perpetrated by our side in the 1990s (I am ashamed of any atrocity perpetrated in my name), but there were very many by the other sides against us in the 1990s as well (the West covered these up), and the historical context is crucial (if people knew about WWII Croatia/Bosnia, they would understand why Croatian and Bosnian Serbs were so opposed to the independence of these two countries from Yugoslavia). It is quite simply refreshing to tell the truth (in real life, on an online forum, such as this), and to simply have some people respond with understanding, with sympathy, as you all have here. Thank you, all.

Just to be factually correct, also, you are right about WWI, but about WWII not exactly. The largest victims (as an ethnic group) were Jews and Gypsies, followed by Russians, Poles, and Serbs. As for what countries experienced the worst killing rates as a whole (not specifying the ethnicity of the victim), it was first Poland, and then the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia were tied in 2nd place.

[Merv]

Re: Genocide of the Serbs

Interesting videos, I knew that the Serbs also have suffered numerous genocides, your people share the same faith as ours. I have a good Serbian friend and we often discuss such things. Why is it our peoples have suffered such tragedies? In contradiction to other nations, we are not imperialistic and are not expansion driven. We are old nations who just want to live in peace and prosper, which unfortunately is not possible surrounded by barbaric nations who thrive on blood.

We should never trust other peoples, who have fooled our nations numerous times. The Republic of Serbian Krajina should be one of our examples why we should never trust our lands towards others who do not care for it (Artsakh, Nagorno-Karabakh). The difficulties do not end for Serbia (and for Armenia), as Kosovo was the next step in the destruction of your nation. It will not end here, as Serbia is striving towards being a EU country which means that Serbia shall never have a free own will again, as it will become the slave of European nations interests.

In my opinion, a strong Russia is our last hope (even though Russians and Serbians do not necceserily like each other), against Western imperialism.

This is a key point. The Armenians, nor any other nation, should ever trust the UN/NATO/"international community" to save them from persecution and expulsion. They must defend themselves. Krajina in 1995 was abandoned by the UN and by Serbia and the Croats managed to drive all 250,000 people out in just 2 weeks.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Genocide of the Serbs

A possible example of an Armenian parasitically using events in Yugoslavia to publicise the Armenian genocide? See http://www.armenianweekly.com/2010/0...rk-conference/

...Katharine Derderian’s 2005 “Common Fate, Different Experience: Gender-Specific Aspects of the Armenian Genocide, 1915-17” also discuss this aspect. The problem with Derderian’s article is that it takes a model that was based on the Bosnian Genocide and applies it to the Armenian Genocide.

And here is another, from the time of NATO's invasion of Kosovo, that completely dispells Tigranakert's "I have never met even one Armenian who supported the muslims in historic Serbian territory of Kosovo" comment. Not only has the Armenian writer of that article decded to completely ignore the history of Serbia and how closely it has resembled that of Armenia, but he has decided in a unprincipled way to accept as truth the NATO invented "genocide" in Kosovo for no other reason than to publicise the Armenian Genocide.

http://www.caia.org.uk/armenianvoice/37/index.htm#link21

It might be an appropriate time to question these two about what they consider genocide to be, since everything that is happening in Kosovo has echoes back to 1915 (eg. the emptying of Serb prisons for troops), but on a far smaller scale. The pictures that have swamped our television screens could almost be colour images of the non-existent footage of th e Armenian Genocide. The British press has compared the Kosovo Crisis to the Holocaust, when a far more appropriate comparison would be with the Armenian Genocide. Two of the major features of the Holocaust were the beauracracy and mechanisation of the process of extermination. This feature is absent from Serbian actions, and as the unique lobby are always quick to assert (when it suits them), it was also absent from the Turk perpetrated Armenian Genocide. However the press, with it's limited knowledge of the history of the Armenian Genocide have had to rely on letters from historians such as Christopher Walker to be made aware of this fact. When papers such as The Telegraph and the Mail on Sunday have spoken of the Armenian case, which both have recently, it has been either partly or wholly erroneous.

In 1999 we are seeing once more that the world does learn from history. Genocide accelerates when the perpetrator state is attacked, as was the case during the Holocaust and the Armenian Genocide. Slobodan Milosovic has had the conditions created for him that enabled the Nazis and the Turks to accelerate their own genocidal policies. NATO seems to have been unaware and unprepared for a repeated response from the Serbian regime.

[Tigranakert]

Re: Genocide of the Serbs

No country or person wants the support of "Armenian people" like you (i.e. racist religious bigots).

If anyone is wondering why Armenian issues are treated with contempt internationally, it is because Armenians like Tigranakert are allowed to take the stage and present their stupid views. "Armenians people support Serbs and Serbs support Armenians" - what a cretin you are if you think that is called "support". That and your "Armenians don't support Muslims" is the equivalent of the knee-jerk "support" that Islamists give to genocidal countries like Sudan for no other reson than they are Islamic countries. The world shows contempt for those who give such unqualified support and contempt for those who would accept such support. Serbs are sensible enough and European enough to tell you where to stick your poisonous "support", it is the worst, most negative, most damaging sort of support.

It is because of Armenians like you (Levon Ter Petrosyan) and other traitors that we stand where we stand today.

Armenians in the Netherlands coorprate with the Serbian political and student organizations.They join us to commemorate the Armenian genocide, some Serbs even went to Artsakh to fight with us. Furthurmore, I know a lot of Armenians who go to Serbia (and I will be going too soon), who get treated very well when they say they are Armenian.

They were, are and will remain our brothers. And what? We do not support the genocidal muslims in Kosovo, but I do support ''muslims'' in Iran and Syria. You are the one who can not read.

That and your "Armenians don't support Muslims" is the equivalent of the knee-jerk "support" that Islamists give to genocidal countries like Sudan for no other reson than they are Islamic countries.

You remind me of Azeris. They take one small part of a phrase and then they talk bullxxxx around it. I said Armenians do not support the muslims of Kosovo, and you only took the ''Armenians don't support muslims''. Haha, you Aliyev. You should go and work for www.today.az

Serbs are European enough? What is your definition of ''European''? Europe (and the West) were the main cause they lost a bunch of land and they know themselves know it. Their nation and culture can not be compared to those of the West.

What support can Armenia give? We are so small that even the important things we can not decide on ourselves. For me it is important (and the best support we can give, unfortunately) that the Armenian people know the truth about Serbian history, the genocides they have suffered and the lands that have been stolen from them (just like in our case), and can get along well.

Furthermore, the Armenian Defense Ministry closely cooperates with the Serbian Defense Ministry (we have bought a lot of weapons from them).

Serbian - Armenian relations are good and developing, don't cry, tiny cat!

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Genocide of the Serbs

That is the biggest bullxxxx I have heared in recent times. I have never met even one Armenian who supported the muslims in historic Serbian territory of Kosovo. As you are bell-the-cat, it is your role to always be negative.

Armenians people support Serbs and Serbs support Armenians, we have very good relationships, it is just politics that ''divides'' us.

I have never met any Armenian who mentioned there was only one holocaust, I think you read to much Azeri/Turkish news (or maybe there is something wrong mentally).

No country or person wants the support of "Armenian people" like you (i.e. racist religious bigots).

If anyone is wondering why Armenian issues are treated with contempt internationally, it is because Armenians like Tigranakert are allowed to take the stage and present their stupid views. "Armenians people support Serbs and Serbs support Armenians" - what a cretin you are if you think that is called "support". That and your "Armenians don't support Muslims" is the equivalent of the knee-jerk "support" that Islamists give to genocidal countries like Sudan for no other reson than they are Islamic countries. The world shows contempt for those who give such unqualified support and contempt for those who would accept such support. Serbs are sensible enough and European enough to tell you where to stick your poisonous "support", it is the worst, most negative, most damaging sort of support.

[ZORAVAR]

Re: Genocide of the Serbs

Merv,

Thanks for the thread and interesting links.

The Serbian people have indeed suffered a lot. Armenians and Serbs understand each other very well.

I am certain that if our people stay strong, we will prevail at the end.

[UrMistake]

Re: Genocide of the Serbs

All armenians in greece is against the kosovo albanians...greeks also..