notes and comments

[arabaliozian]

Re: elegy

He names a long list of Armenian, Western and Persian scholors. Why is it that hard for your ego to recant your own propaganda as you promised? Mr. Nourizadeh is a well-known and serious writer translator and an Iranian intellectual. Do you think he'd be that gullible to put his reputation at risk and reproduce some myth for the Iranian reader on their own History to swallow up? If you pay attention to his rhetoric, you'll certainly notice that it's been written by a non-Armenian, someone who is not trying to add any 'parabanutyun' on the bravery of the Armenain nation...

like most people all over the world, i tend to trust people i know as opposed to people i know nothing about it. I know and trust my Mekhitarist source. i know nothing about the Iranian historian.

in the 5th century AD there were several armenian historians in armenia. and yet, it is only Yeghishe that mentions the Battle of Avarair -- and we all agree that it must have been, if real, the most important battle of the century, not to say the millennium.

can anyone imagine only one historian, or only one american newspaper reporting on the American Civil War or, for that matter, World War II?

[Sako]

Re: elegy

can anyone imagine only one historian, or only one american newspaper reporting on the American Civil War or, for that matter, World War II?

Good point. But let's also agree that Avarair took place a long time ago. Let's most importantly agree with the fact that a lot of our books, documents, and history turned to ashes along with our people during and after the AG. We lost almost everything so I don't think it would be strange to think that perhaps more then one person wrote about Avarair and his/their documents were lost after the AG. Just my two cents. I don't know much about Avarair so I'm not going to start talking seriously about it.

[KanadaHye]

Re: elegy

Who's the winner in love and who's the loser?

The one that usually ends up sleeping on the couch is the loser? lol

Lucin, you're very level-headed and very bright

Rare Armenian characteristics... I think she's a spy

[KanadaHye]

Re: elegy

can anyone imagine only one historian, or only one american newspaper reporting on the American Civil War or, for that matter, World War II?

I don't know, was the Associated Press around during World War II? lol

[bell-the-cat]

Re: elegy

I too would like to see some Persian/Iranian sources that talk about the Battle of Avarayr using historical records of the Sassanids themselves.

Unrecorded historical events are not like trees falling unnoticed in the forest - we don't actually need a contemporary historian to have chronicled then for us to know they happened (or to know that something important happened) - significant events have reactions and counter-reactions and side effects that echo through a time period that lasts longer than the actual event. If the Battle of Avarayr happened in the manner that tradition said it happened then it would have had those reactions and counter-reactions and side-effects. And if it didn't happen - all those reactions and effects won't exist. So if Ara wants to disprove the event, just saying only one source wrote about it isn't the way to do it, any more than just quoting from that source is a way to prove the event.

[arabaliozian]

Re: elegy

Wednesday, July 15, 2009
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OF CABBAGES & KINGS
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As an underdog, I identify myself with underdogs of all nations and I loathe all murderers and rapists even when they call themselves Alexander the Great and Suleiman the Magnificent. How “Great” was our own Dikran to his victims?
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Once upon a time I had an insatiable curiosity about Armenians. I read and reviewed books – sometimes as many as three at a time – in which Armenians were mentioned. Not any more. I have had enough of their subservience to authority, that is to say, to bearded cassocks, empty suits, and fat-bellied slobs.
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It is not “white man who speaks with a forked tongue,” but power. For centuries the average dupe believed kings ruled in the name of God. And when the Czars (Russian for Caesars) were replaced by commissars, things got from bad to worse.
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The historic evidence seems to suggest that when men rule, it is more likely that they do so in the name of the Devil.
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How do you convince the average Armenian who has been brought up to believe he is smarter than the smartest “hria” that his political IQ hovers somewhere between +1 and 0?
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Orson Welles: “Magic is directed almost entirely to men. Women hate it – it irritates them. They don't like to be fooled. And men do.”
#

[arabaliozian]

Re: elegy

Unrecorded historical events are not like trees falling unnoticed in the forest - we don't actually need a contemporary historian to have chronicled then for us to know they happened (or to know that something important happened) - significant events have reactions and counter-reactions and side effects that echo through a time period that lasts longer than the actual event. If the Battle of Avarayr happened in the manner that tradition said it happened then it would have had those reactions and counter-reactions and side-effects. And if it didn't happen - all those reactions and effects won't exist. So if Ara wants to disprove the event, just saying only one source wrote about it isn't the way to do it, any more than just quoting from that source is a way to prove the event.

the central concern of all historians and chroniclers is to write about wars, especially important wars that happened during their own lifetime.
as for me trying to disprove the Battle of Avarair:
what i have been saying is that i trust the word of a scholar who has nothing to gain as opposed to a historian who was very probably a Mamigonian hireling.

[arabaliozian]

Re: elegy

Good point. But let's also agree that Avarair took place a long time ago. Let's most importantly agree with the fact that a lot of our books, documents, and history turned to ashes along with our people during and after the AG. We lost almost everything so I don't think it would be strange to think that perhaps more then one person wrote about Avarair and his/their documents were lost after the AG. Just my two cents. I don't know much about Avarair so I'm not going to start talking seriously about it.

Khorenatsi (5th century AD) was a contemporary of Yeghishe. His HISTORY survived the Genocide. Does he mention the Battle of Avarair?

[Sako]

Re: elegy

I haven't checked.

And it's not like everyone that lived back then had to definitely write a book about Avarair. Again, I'm not going to go too deep into this subject as I know very little about it ... for now!

[arabaliozian]

Re: elegy

Thursday, July 16, 2009
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AND NOW FOR SOMETHING DIFFERENT
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Shortly after Henry Fonda asked for a divorce from his wife, she killed herself by slitting her throat with a razor – not my favorite method of vacating the premises.
He once explained his multiple marriages by saying: “If I made penetration, a proposal was the next step.”
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Joan Crawford on Otto Preminger: “Otto is a dear man, sort of a xxxish Nazi, but I love him.”
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Lee Marvin to Marlon Brando: “I'm thinking of changing my name. To Marlow Brandy.”
Brando: “I think I'll change my name, too. To Lee Moron.”
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A critic to Charlie Chaplin: “You never have any interesting camera angles.”
Chaplin: “I don't need interesting camera angles – I am interesting.”
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Ernest Borgnine begins his autobiography by quoting a chestnut vendor's sign that said: “I don't want to set the world on fire, I just want to keep my nuts warm.” He adopted that as his “philosophy,” he writes.
In his old age he once sat on the knees of a Wal-Mart Santa Claus and said: “I would like a blonde,” and the Santa replied: “So would I.”
Unlike his movie image, Borgnine comes across as a harmless and lovable fellow. He has something nice to say about everybody, except Shelley Winters, which is understandable.
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Orson Welles on Anthony Asquith: “My God, he was polite. I saw him, all alone on the stage once, trip over an electric cable, turn around, and say 'I beg your pardon' to it.”

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