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Abortion

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  • #31

    I believe that politicians SHOULD be making these decisions. Who else is going to implement policy? Only 11% of the population pursues a higher education. Most politicians are educated, and I do not want the other 89% making my decisions for me. It is their job, hence the name politician, they deal primarily with the creation of policy. Who else should we leave it up to...you?

    You guys have allowed politicians to define your arguement. You call the right to have an abortion choice. That is a euphimistic device. Notice how I do not use the terms, "pro-life" or "pro-choice." Each term connotes an opposite; for instance, if one is pro-life, I find it hard to believe that someone else is pro-death. Some of you call the right to have an abortion choice, while I call it "lack of personal accountablity"

    Some might argue that we should leave it up to women to decide. IF it was that way, then abortion would be illegal. In fact, 58-63% of women are anti-abortion.

    The fact is that when someone committs abortion, one is giving up on something. To abort is to give up, or retreat. One only takes such measures in times of desperation, or fear because they had made a devastating mistake, or are so stricken as to be incapable of determining other methods of handling the situation. When one aborts the baby, the same thing can be said. Now, you, as most people who agree with the legal use of abortion always bring up "what if" circumstances that are nothing more than anecdotal scraps used to allow people the right to abort their offspring. Empirically the fact is that only 5% of abortions are used by women who have been raped. How many women are raped, that conceive a child? NOT VERY MANY. Abortion is primarily used persons age 15-23 because they conceived under irresponsible circumstances.

    Even if the baby had a disease, that still makes up for a small percentage of reasons that women would abort their offspring. Also, how long does it take for a doctor to prognose any life threatening ailments? I am extremely happy that the bi-partisan bill prohibiting partial birth abortions has become law.

    Sorry if I hold men and women accountable for their, but it takes two to tango. Why should tax dollars be used because an 18 year old girl is to embarrassed to buy a condom, or is so irresponsible that she and her partner had not stopped to consider the consequences of their action. Maybe more money should be going to schools rather than the depletion of the human population.

    Some one mentioned that human could not be defined, well I beg to differ. The offspring can easily be defined as a political human being. It receives security, and means of survival via "mom." We as social beings receive our means of security and survival via the state. If a police man walked up to someone and shot them in the head while on their lunch break, there would mass hysteria and anger towards the state. When a women desires to abort her baby, she is treated differently. A police officer is supposed to protect his/her citizens, while a mother is supposed to protect her baby. This is why both situations provoke irony.

    To acknowledge something some brought up: "personhood." That is a psychological term which has no relevance in this arguement. Human is a biological term, and that is all that matters. One can only kill something which is biological, or something that is living. Therefore, one can not even grasp a psychological sense without first having the biological definition of life.

    Abortion is another mechanism that the left uses to deprive the individuals of accountability.

    I personally also find it odd that a mother can so readily kill her offspring. A mother is biologically structured as the nurturer of the offspring, yet some mothers seek to find ways to rid themselves of it.

    And Anon. A democracy derives its political legitimacy from the millions of people that vote. As long as people are voting, democracy will remain. When people stop, another form of government will find political legitimacy...tyrannical dictatorial regimes. You should pat yourself on the back for helping this process.
    Last edited by surferarmo; 01-23-2004, 02:33 PM.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by jahannam ouh ouh so lets give that responsibility/job to the Bush Administration.
      You cant, he gave it back to you when he proposed and the congress passed the bi-partisan prohibition of partial birth abortions.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by surferarmo I believe that politicians SHOULD be making these decisions. Who else is going to implement policy?
        You don't think people should make their own decisions? So you're saying they are stupid and therefore politicians must make their decisions? You like telling other people what to do don't you? Hehehehe. Welcome back. Like old times.
        Achkerov kute.

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        • #34
          ANON, I GOT STATS, READ THE LONG POST AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by jahannam oh God.
            here we go again
            the 111th "abortion" thread or something.
            anyway
            I'll say this again...
            no matter how many times you say "abortion is murder", it's a solution to a lot of problems, and it's gonna go on.
            make it legal.
            make it illegal.
            neither doctors nor expecting women care.
            if they're gonna do it, they're gonna do it.
            you can't stop science.
            you can't slow down technology.
            That is the reason politicians and people make policy in the first place. Someone has committed an act, if it is not harmful to the state, then no worries, if it is...POLICY.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Baron Dants Alright, let me rephrase, so that our fellow american readers can understand. My initial point was that the subject of abortion is not one that can be based on UNDENIABLE proof, and is only based on personal values. That is why, most people cannot back themselves up with anything more than their own beliefs. Which eventually leads to redundancy.

              Once again, I don't understand what surfer is saying when he speaks of being indoctrinated with the same ideas as I am, as I personally have not yet formed an opinion on abortion, mostly because there is no proof to sway me on one side or another. I would have a hard time justifying why a 14 year old or a rape victim must keep her baby though...
              Baron, I have evidence and numbers to back up my point of view on this. I looked up these numbers and will gladly provide links and leads where you can look them up yourself.

              Just for you my Canadian friend.

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              • #37
                I have a question. How can you be opposed to manipulating the genetics of an offspring to determine its sex, when you are for manipulating the genetics to incur abortion?

                Hypocrisy at its finest!

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by surferarmo Baron, I have evidence and numbers to back up my point of view on this. I looked up these numbers and will gladly provide links and leads where you can look them up yourself.

                  Just for you my Canadian friend.
                  Well, your post above was interesting. But 58-63% who are against abortion still leaves 37-42% who are for it. And if abortion is made illegal, what DOES happen to the 5% who WERE rape victims?

                  Personally speaking, I would never consider an abortion (for my partner obviously ) because I find that the parents have a huge responsibility even for the unborn child.

                  But as Jahannam said, no matter what you think, some people are going to think otherwise, and will still try to get it.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Baron Dants Well, your post above was interesting. But 58-63% who are against abortion still leaves 37-42% who are for it. And if abortion is made illegal, what DOES happen to the 5% who WERE rape victims?

                    Personally speaking, I would never consider an abortion (for my partner obviously ) because I find that the parents have a huge responsibility even for the unborn child.

                    But as Jahannam said, no matter what you think, some people are going to think otherwise, and will still try to get it.
                    If you support any law, say for instance laws that prohibit murder, what would you say if I replied, "people are going to murder other people anyway?"

                    Or if you spoke against war in general and I said " War is inevitable between states anyway?"

                    So I ask you and J, should we not have laws against rape? SHould we not have laws against criminals? Should we not have property laws?

                    Do you see why that response is sort of elementary. Their needs to be policy which discourages abortion en masse.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by surferarmo If you support any law, say for instance laws that prohibit murder, what would you say if I replied, "people are going to murder other people anyway?"

                      Or if you spoke against war in general and I said " War is inevitable between states anyway?"

                      So I ask you and J, should we not have laws against rape? SHould we not have laws against criminals? Should we not have property laws?

                      Do you see why that response is sort of elementary. Their needs to be policy which discourages abortion en masse.
                      The difference is that abortion is still not accepted as being something that is outright WRONG. Very lucid people can make strong arguments for abortion, which is not the case for rape, murder, yevayln.

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