Mind Over Matter

[Anonymouse]

Re: Mind Over Matter

Originally posted by loseyourname From yahoo:

Placebo Effect

Apparently, people can be tricked into feeling better without any external biochemical manipulation. This would seem to lead to the conclusion that it should be possible for a human being to simply will himself into alleviation of symptoms. What do you think?

I think this is interesting.

Let's not forget when we are stressed, struck with anxiety, our immune system lowers and therefore we become susceptible to disease. Mind is body and body is mind. I love doing my 3 mile run. Makes me feel good mentally.

[Crimson Glow]

Originally posted by sSsflamesSs Loser, humans are weak. They need something to believe in (a placebo).

Like God?? (Sorry......I'm not religion bashing....but....I couldn't help myself in the face of oppurtunity)

However, the majority of people would not be able to control their minds, much less their bodies.

I guess that depends where you were brought up. In Western civilization, yes. People are very weak, and very superficial. A shallow person is not going to be in tune with his or her mind-body connection, so how would they ever know of the possibilities?

Then there's freaks like the Shaolin Monks with INCREDIBLE mind over body control, and not just in regards to their kung-fu. I've seen them do some things that most people here would consider humanly impossible (watched an hour long documentary).

But let's forget the extremes. Let's look at more "graspable" evidence. How about anxiety disorders, or panick attacks? Some people cannot get by without medicine for this mental disorder created within one's own mind. Others are able to stop attacks of the disorder through mind over body control, calming the reaction by concentrating and commanding the body to relax.

We need to let go of the surface value of reality, and sink deeper into what is possible. If the mind is strong enough to create heart attack like symptoms even though it's never experienced one, just imagine what else it's capable of. People for some reason fear exploring these boundries. Hell, they fear discussing anything about life except for money, sex, and power. This is the reason we've lost touch with the human mind. Your inner healing ability isn't going to impress the Jones' next door, and people aren't interested in things that don't make others envious of them. Unfortunately, I don't see that healing any time soon.

[Aphrodit3]

Yes, I think autosuggestion should do the same. A person's mind has to somehow be manipulated into accepting a better state of being without the treatment. I think if willpower is strong enough, it is possible to produce the same results without a placebo. It's a neurochemical effect, is it not? If you can get the body to produce the necessary hormones without external manipulation, then you can induce those reactions. I've heard of starving people who made the feelings of hunger disappear by simply thinking that they were full. There is also the case of pseudocyesis.

[sSsflamesSs]

Originally posted by Crimson Glow

Like God?? (Sorry......I'm not religion bashing....but....I couldn't help myself in the face of oppurtunity) [/B]

Ha ha, cute.

I guess that depends where you were brought up. In Western civilization, yes. People are very weak, and very superficial. A shallow person is not going to be in tune with his or her mind-body connection, so how would they ever know of the possibilities?

Then there's freaks like the Shaolin Monks with INCREDIBLE mind over body control, and not just in regards to their kung-fu. I've seen them do some things that most people here would consider humanly impossible (watched an hour long documentary).

But let's forget the extremes. Let's look at more "graspable" evidence. How about anxiety disorders, or panick attacks? Some people cannot get by without medicine for this mental disorder created within one's own mind. Others are able to stop attacks of the disorder through mind over body control, calming the reaction by concentrating and commanding the body to relax.

We need to let go of the surface value of reality, and sink deeper into what is possible. If the mind is strong enough to create heart attack like symptoms even though it's never experienced one, just imagine what else it's capable of. People for some reason fear exploring these boundries. Hell, they fear discussing anything about life except for money, sex, and power. This is the reason we've lost touch with the human mind. Your inner healing ability isn't going to impress the Jones' next door, and people aren't interested in things that don't make others envious of them. Unfortunately, I don't see that healing any time soon.

My response was regarding the majority of people, not monks . But yes, people of the Western world are weaker in that sense, for they are obsessed with materialism.

I was referring to the placebo effect when it has to do with the diseases of the body, not the mind.

[Aphrodit3]

Re: Re: Mind Over Matter

Originally posted by Anonymouse Let's not forget when we are stressed, struck with anxiety, our immune system lowers and therefore we become susceptible to disease.

Ha! I get the flu during finals week...every damn semester!

[sSsflamesSs]

What I am wondering is, what is the explanation for this phenomenon? If, according to some people , we are only material things that function in a mechanical way, be it emotions explained through neurotransmitters and receptors, or other such things, how is the placebo effect even possible?

[ckBejug]

Originally posted by sSsflamesSs What I am wondering is, what is the explanation for this phenomenon? If, according to some people , we are only material things that function in a mechanical way, be it emotions explained through neurotransmitters and receptors, or other such things, how is the placebo effect even possible?

Well if the placebo is making our body have physical manifestations of feeling better... as in mechanical processes.. then I guess all the same processes would occur that do when an actual drug is administered. Do you think maybe like if we KNOW the drug targets a certain part of our immune system or something and we know what we should EXPECT to happen then say the drug had the effect of releasing hormones that target neurotransmitters that in turn target increase in production of t-cells, b-cells, and other immune system cells, so the placebo works in the same way? We know the drug itself has an effect on certain areas of our mind in control of the immune system activities, and the placebo just acts the same way... Maybe?

What I'd love to know is what specific illnesses placebo's had a greater effect on. Like I said before, it's very understandable that emotional problems might be overcome with anything that might make us decidedly happier, more confident. etc, so that in and of itself releases hormones like endorphins that would make us feel better... but has there been strong proof of this placebo effect on illnesses like disease (not of the mind but of the body) and cancer?

[violette829]

I think this is true except in cases of extreme illness. My father was diagnosed with cancer about 3 years ago, and until the last second, the doctors were giving him hope for survival. I do think he had a lot of hope. They tried SO many different drugs on him...nothing worked, but the doctor never told him that directly. We specifically asked him not to give my dad any bad news. They would just try one thing after another, but somehow, my dad knew exactly when he was going to die. He predicted his death to be around that of his dad's. November....he kept saying I won't live for December...Sure enough...anyway....

Yea, the power of the mind is fascinating. But, not in all cases. Though I think it is significant enough to be tested, I don't think it's smart to suggest this to real patients.

I know I can heal myself when I'm sick. I don't know if that has anything to do with this, but I hate medicine. When I feel the flu coming on, I usually don't pay attention to it. I just go on with life, as usual, pretending that it's not happening...and it usually doesn't even get to the point where I need any medication! It's really awesome!

GO BRAIN!

[töö____müch]

Once you are in control .. the extreme and the smallest will not matter, cause there's no difference then.. and you wont need any placebo .. cause if ur cured by a placebo .. you will be sick again with a placebo .. That’s not the pure thing "mind power"..

[dusken]

I am speaking ignorantly and without experience when I say I think the cases in which the placebo effect would work is when the mind is preventing the ailment from being overcome. The power of the mind can indeed work the other way. As a matter of fact I would expect it to be far more probable that the mind perceive something that is not there as opposed to physically eliminating something that is in fact there because, let us face it, an ailment is most likely cause by a foreign presence. Can the mind make bacteria or viruses disappear? What seems more reasonable to me is if the mind continues to "perceive" the hypothetical bacteria after their effects have worn off and the placebo would easy the mind out of that perception after the ailments natural course. I may not be giving the conducted tests enough credit but that is what comes to mind.