Intelligence

[Wise]

I would enjoy reading your views on intelligence (human intelligence).

Can intelligence be measured or determined?

A person’s IQ (intelligence quotient) is the ratio of tested mental age to chronological age; a measure of a person's intelligence as indicated by an intelligence test. Can an IQ test conclude which human is smarter when compared with another individual? If intelligence has some sort of measurement, it winds-up indicating that intellect can equal zero. Is it possible for a person to have “zero” intelligence?

In my opinion, I think that an IQ test just illustrates how well a person can do certain subjects such as math or how well the brain processes certain tasks such as pattern recognition. But why does that mean that people who can comprehend certain material on the IQ test better than others indicate they are smarter?

Is a brilliant philosopher smarter than an astounding mathematician?

Is Amadeus Mozart, with an IQ of 185, more intelligent than you? Is Isaac Newton?

Is a Harvard graduate brighter than a high school dropout?

Intelligence is the faculty of thought and reason. However, thought and reason are limitless and immeasurable.

Intelligence is determined by your capacity to acquire and apply knowledge. Each person has a life span. Throughout their life they acquire unique knowledge that differs from every individual. A college graduate might have more knowledge in school subjects (i.e., math) compared to a dropout. However, if the two of them have existed the same amount of time, each have extremely different experiences acquired throughout their life. “Life experience” for each person is interpreted and applied to their knowledge. So how can one person’s knowledge be deemed more valuable or superior to another’s?

What is your opinion? I'm too unintelligent to figure it out. . .
Wise...

[Crimson Glow]

Well, I think the problem is that most people coincide intelligence with education, or education levels. But let's look at what education really means. What do they really teach you in school? You're giving a bunch of facts throughout your schooling, some relevant to life, some not. Then they ask you to spit those facts back out on to a test. Your ability to regurgitate this info is what determines your score. Your score determines your intelligence by their standards. Just one problem. This sounds more like a test of your memorizations skills, not intelligence. Sure you're picking up info, which is always critical to thinking, but it in no way demonstrates that you have the capacity to formulate opinions off, or understand the impact of this info. I hate to go into the clichéd example that Einstein failed math, but it is true and interesting.

I deal with very rich business men and women all day, all of whom which have graduated from top notch schools and are making nice incomes in "important" positions. Yet, their inability to grasp simple concepts I throw out at them never ceases to amaze me. Now you have to imagine that these people did pretty well at their respective schools to get these positions. They were deemed "intelligent" enough to beat out everyone else for the job. Yet, it seems they are clueless when it comes to thinking on their feet in the real world. You know....where life actually happens. It is unfortunate that these are the people being rewarded with higher incomes and can afford the high maintenance attitudes they display.

Seems to me that intelligence by the standard of the average person is measured through the level of which one allows him/herself to be molded by the system. The ones that are smart are the ones who have "made it", and are "well off" financially, are married (with children, big house, white picket fence, yada yada yada), etc.

It appears as though credit is not given to free thinkers who take what they've learned and push the boundaries with it. Contrary to the perception of these people that the ability to bend "the Matrix" is crazy or ridiculous, THIS is what thinking is all about to me. Anyone can teach you facts and figures. Anyone take those facts and figures and memorize them (on different levels, depending on genetics), spitting them back out when required to. But to ME, the ability to analyze, interpret, and USE that info in ways that demonstrate your ability to solve problem, think on your feet, or come up with untaught concepts using said info is the difference between someone with just good memorization skills.....and someone with actual intelligence. Our current schooling systems and I.Q. tests can not possibly measure this!

[Anonymouse]

You know, I've watched in amazement over the last decade at how politically correct 'science' has become with regard to intelligence. It is almost as if one is afraid to point out that there are obvious differences.

The crusade against intelligence is not simply a crusade on the I.Q. as 'unreliable' or 'arbitrary', but rather it is against something else. The underlying premise of the anti-intelligence crusade is egalitarian fiction. When I.Q. tests point out obvious differences in intelligence among individuals and among races, it is 'unreliable' and 'racist'. This is dangerous to the egalitarian crusaders, to one-worldism, and to those who support "diversity is our strength". Intelligence is biological. Knowledge is the acquisition of facts, but intelligence is the biological potential to understand and to learn.

There are many differences in levels of intelligence between individuals within a given population group, and between different population groups. Intelligence is inherited. You cannot make a person "more intelligent" by more government funded public schools, or by doing away with the I.Q. test.

[Wise]

Gadfly of ILP

For those interested on what my take is of IQ, please refer to the essay forum, the thread called 'IQ'. My take on it is a little bit longer than a normal post; so I decided to post it there.

Furthermore, throughout my discussions with Polemarchus, I paid heed to a detail I found years ago when I first wrote the piece on IQ, and that is...that words must be used to define words and that it goes in a circle; in disagreeing with Polemarchus I did find a version of two words where Polemarchus is right. Ie. Reason and Logic

According to the dictionary, the definition of Reason is...

the ability to think logically

and the definition of logic is...

consistent with reasoning, inevitably following from the application of reason.

For those who do go onto the essay forum and read my analysis of IQ, I hope you find it interesting and intriguing.

Have patience with my IQ post, it was written a long time ago, it does tend to jump, even to skip, and sometimes to ramble. It is copied from it's original writing, I think I wrote it about 7 years ago; so I was about 16. I do think it worth the read, and many may find something new they never thought about before.

What's your take?
_________________
To get to heaven one must first go through hell.

[Sip]

Coming from the computer science background, let me give you my personal definition of intelligence ... to me, intelligence is what a machine cannot do yet.

We know our machines are tremendous at memorizing, doing quick computation, doing searching and sorting, and basically doing simple repetitive tasks or carrying out simple scripts.

But they SUCK at problem solving, at recognizing, and extracting complex patterns, making complex inferences, and a lot of other things that humans are faaar superior at.

At some point, playing chess at a superior level was considered a sign of intelligence... well now we have machines that are matching and if not beating the best of the best among humans. So what happened? Did machines become intelligent? Or is "chess" not a good measure of intelligence? Maybe chess, when played by the limited human mind against a machine that can do several trillion calculations a minute IS in fact intelligence ... well I don't know.

However, what I do know is that I see intelligence when a being encounters a new problem or a new predicament never encountered before and is able to figure out something that it did not know before. This figuring out process may rely on experience, knowledge, deductive reasoning, or sheer trial and error but in any case, it is what I would generally tend to classify as intelligence.

[Sip]

Oh and as a consequence, if a machine is at some point able to do what a human does, then we have Alan Turing's classic definition of (artificial) intelligence! ... see Turing Test.

[Anonymouse]

Intelligence is a mental capability, that we apply to humans in my opinion ( which is why for computers we supposedly have "artificial intelligence" as a label ), which among many other things involves reasoning skills as pointed out, planning, to solve problems and think abstractly, comprehend complex ideas, learn hastily but moreover learn from experience. People believe that simply reading books makes on intelligent. That is untrue. Intelligence is not the narrow academic skill of book learning, or mastering test-taking smarts on an SAT or GMAT or LSAT.

[Anonymouse]

Re: Intelligence

Originally posted by Wise
Can intelligence be measured or determined?

And to answer your question, yes, intelligence can be measured and determined. While there are different types of intelligence tests, they all measure essentially the same thing - intelligence.

[whitelotus]

i happen to agree with crimson aka dikran.

most of that crap is memorizing, like a freaking robot.
being educated is not always being an intellectual.

i know many people who do excellent in school, get high scores on intelligence tests but they are freaking idiots in life outside a book and test sheet.


they cant solve simple problems in life, they cant grasp simple concepts or situations etc.

let me give you an example/situation to solve:

You get a flat tire and you have a spare in the trunck. You go get the tire out and try to change it. While attempting to change the tire, the bolts on the tire fall into a deep crack or crevice on the side of the road, you cant take it out, and you dont have anything to take them out with, you dont have a cell phone and you are miles away from anywhere where you can get help.

what do you do ?

a book worm wouldnt be able to figure out something this simple. heh. It took me less than 30 seconds to come up with a solution to the problem.

there is a difference between book smart and street smart.
not many people are quick, nor good at solving problems like this. There skills dont go past a scan tron :P

[Sip]

Highlight for solution: I'd take a bolt from one of each of the other wheels. By the way my spare in on the carrier with 3 bolts of it's own so I wouldn't have this problem! I also have 3 extra ones on there because I relacated the space a few inches.

I don't agree that everything in school is about memorization. Sure memorization will get you a long way and may even get you that 4.0 ... but that will only go so long. For example once you start any sort of engineering degree or beyond, it's all about having a set of skills in problem solvings and the knowledge of the fundamental theory, but then everything else comes down to a systematic approach, the sceintific method, and creativity.