Race

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by Fadix Dan, this is an erronous logic, what you are asking me is like telling someone to prove the existance of a non-existance.

You guys have claimed that blacks had smaller brains, you guys posted Rushters table with cranial capacity etc... which I have demonstrated to be erronious, now the rest regarding breeding and the r/K selection theory that was the rest of the table, this study show is innacurate.

In fact from Rushton own most accurate simples from US army personals we see that the Cranial capacity of the three groups was almost equal, the technique used by Rushton to measure brain size is rejected by neurologists or specialists of the brain physiology. Two recent studies(I may post them in future) reject entirly Rushton claim.

The IQ differences between blacks and whites therefore has nothing to do with brain size.

You pointed out that blacks attend less university and have lower IQ. Dan, in Japan Koreans are considered as inferiors, they are of the same "race" as you call it, and in their IQ tests they score less than Japenese. In the past Polish Jews in the US were considered as dumb, and faced a lot of discrimination, they scored in IQ tests under the general population, while now Jews score higher.

We can reffer to Northern Irland, where Catholics are discriminated and considered as inferiors, they score 15 points lower in IQ tests than the Protestants. Both are "Caucasoid" like you claim.

Blacks are not well addapted in our society, they do not have models to follow in science like whites, they have models in sport and other disciplines that do not require much education, there is many factors, while biologically speaking there is nothing "found" wich will permit us to conclude they are inferior.

Now you must "prove" that there is races in humans, it is not for me to disprove, since you claim something. Explain me if there is such a thing as race, how come we can find more similarities between a black and a white than two whites or two blacks... give me any other example in the animal kingdom where you can find more similarities between two different races than to of the same races. There is NONE!!!

So, you claim there is races, it is to you to prove so.

Ahh the famous "you must prove that there is races in humans, it is not for me to disprove since you claim something". This is similar to Holocaust revisionists who ask the Holocaust defenders to produce evidence of gas chambers. In any event, we have already provided alot of evidence, more than enough to suggest differences in races. The best you have done is post ideological biased articles that dismiss the evidence, simply because it is "too difficult" and "too complex" to map race, or simply focusing on Rushton r- k- selection methods, in order to discount everything else. That is fallacious. Rushton has found racial differneces not in just allometry or breeding, but as well as 60 other variables. There has been endless evidence here that races are real, and the only difficulty is in classifying them. The "evidence" that race is not real is selective, by those that contend "race is not real" do to ideological bias, by cherry picking studies and data which show similarities, and ignoring those that show differences, and thereby touting that as "proof" we are all the same.

Heritability increases from about 0.4 in childhood to 0.8 in later adulthood. The way these heritabilities are estimated is through numerous experiments on twins, adopted children, longitudinal studies, inbreeding depression research, etc. Nothing in science can be proven however. We know of gravity, but it is just a theory. We don't know what it is, contrary to you attacking me.

So what psychometricians are claiming is that the best evidence, based on similar research around the world, from thousands of studies, indicates that intelligence is highly heritable. In addition, very little evidence has been forthcoming showing that environment has much of an impact. Some data from nutrition, pathogens or diseases, etc. but very little real impact on intelligence has been shown so far. The selective cases you have posted is only evidence of scientists measuring and counting only those studies which support their preconceived notions of race being a "social construct".

Moreover, the best evidence of racial differences is the civilizations these people produced. Sub-Saharan black Africa has produced no high civilization, thereby telling us the capacity for this group of people, and thereby their intelligence capabilities. The only reason people have a vested interest in "disproving race" is because they fear that somehow admitting to differences means racism, or is Hitlerian in its effrontery. And as for "racism" because of racial differences, that is already the case. That is why Blacks deny intelligence testing, have moved to ban it, use quotas, etc., hence affirmitive action is reverse racism, or all black schools and clubs. Hitler was right on eugenics though, on the case of heritability, and breeding those that are healthier, more intelligent, and more stronger, contrary to politically correct egalitarian scientists.

This has grown in a tautology simply because it is evidence against dismissal of evidence, and the rest is rooted in beliefs, and no one will let go of their ideological matrix to comprehend this objectively, or consider evidence contrarian to preconceived notions of how the world ought to be. We are not equal, but we should be equal. Races are different, but we shouldn't be different.

[Fadix]

Margaret Munro
National Post
April 22, 2002

Royal Nubia Lies Under Sand


Canadian archaeologists in Sudan, using magnetometers, have found a
2,000-year-old
palace in the heart of the ancient black civilization.

If his partner had not fallen into an ancient tomb and broken both legs,
Professor Krzysztof
Grzymski would have discovered the ancient Nubian royal palace even
sooner. Still, Grzymski, a professor at the University of Toronto and a
curator at the Royal Ontario Museum, is a happy archaeologist these
days. He and his colleague, who is walking again, have found what they
believe are the remains of a palace and a colonnade built more
than 2,000 years ago by the greatest black civilization ever. "It's
quite remarkable, we can see them clearly beneath the sand," says
Grzymski.

The discovery is in the ancient, and for the most part buried, city of
Mero , which was the royal capital of ancient Nubia. It is located
about 200 kilometres northeast of present day Khartoum. Mero ,
considered one of the largest and most important archaeological sites in
Africa, was at the heart of a powerful black civilization that
flourished along the upper Nile River from about 750 BC to 350 AD.

Grzymski and his colleagues plan to start excavating the palace and
colonnade next winter. But for now Grzymski is content to pour over the
grainy images generated by a device that allowed the archaeolgists to
"see" the ruins buried beneath the sand without digging them out.
Explorers -- and tomb robbers -- have long been aware of Mero and its
riches. But archaeologists were so pre-occupied with Egypt's pyramids
and kingdoms to the north -- and deterred by the political conflict in
Sudan -- they largely ignored the ancient Nubian culture.

Many assumed it was merely an offshoot of a more advanced Egyptian
culture. "Here you've got this wonderful civilization that was literate,
which extended over 1,000 miles, maybe more, up the Nile, and which
built pyramids and palaces and temples and at the same time was a major
centre of iron production, and yet it is generally unknown to scholars
and the general public," says Grzymski.

He has been intrigued with the ruins since the 1970s, when he studied
under Professor Peter
Shinnie at the University of Calgary. Shinnie worked for years with
Sudanese scholars on the ancient iron smelters of Mero . Grzymski
helped keep the Canadian-Sudanese collaboration alive through his ROM
work. And in 1999, he and archaeologists at the University of Khartoum
were given a licence by Sudan's antiquities officials to explore the
50-hectare site of Mero . About 10 hectares of the ancient city had
been excavated in the early 1900s by British archaeologists. But most
remains entombed under sand and shrubs.

The archaeologists had a hunch about where the best ruins lay. But they
wanted to be sure. "You can spend weeks and weeks digging nothing," he
says. To find the most promising areas, Grzymski recruited Tomasz
Herbich, a Polish archaeologist and geophysicist who specializes in
using magnetometers to find buried ruins. Magnetometers are
sophisticated versions of the hand-held devices people use to find coins
on beaches and parks. They can differentiate between the magnetic
properties of materials -- such as sand, pottery, bricks -- and feed the
readings into a computer. The readings then generate maps.

Just before the archaeologists were to start scanning the Mero site
in the 2000-2001 season, Herbich, who works on ruins throughout northern
Africa, fell into an abandoned ancient tomb in Egypt, breaking both his
legs and injuring his spine. "It was a terrible accident," says
Grzymski. And it set the Mero scan back by one year.

In February, Hebrich and his magnetometer went to the Sudan site. Within
days, Herbich homed in on the palace and colonnade. The palace, about
400 square metres in area, is about a half a metre beneath the surface
of the sand. "There are traces of staircases, so it suggests there
must have been upper floors," Grzymski says. The street in front of
the building also came into view. To their surprise, they found what
appears to be a colonnade near one of the gates to the ancient city. "We
were absolutely delighted," says Grzymski. "It's really fascinating when
you can see the urban design without excavating."

In October, Grzymski will return to Mero to start digging with his
Sudanese partners. It remains to be seen what treasure lies beneath the
sand, but the materials uncovered in the region over the years have made
it clear the Nubian civilization was a powerful, inventive society. The
most incredible find was made almost 200 years ago in a pyramid near
Mero . An Italian physician and tomb robber known as Ferlini
accompanied an Ottoman invasion of Sudan in 1821 and discovered
exquisite gold amulets, signet rings and necklaces by blasting open the
pyramid of Queen Amanishakheto, one of Nubia's most powerful rulers.

Ferlini tried to sell the treasure when he returned to Europe. But
collectors would not believe such treasure could come from black Africa.
They thought he was trying to pass off fakes, says Grzymski. "They were
jewels of great quality and beauty and often influenced by Greek art,
which was really a surprise," he says. "People didn't expect deep in the
heart of Africa depictions resembling those of Egyptian or classical
Greek art." The ancient Nubians exchanged plenty of ideas and goods with
cultures around them. Nubian pyramids, monuments and jewels were clearly
influenced by Egyptian, Mediterranean and Arabian cultures. "They
worshiped many of the same gods as the Egyptians and the royalty was
buried in pyramids," says Grzymski.

Some of their pottery and burial talismans predate similar discoveries
in Egypt, indicating Nubia may have influenced the Egyptians rather than
the other way around. At the height of their culture, Nubian kings are
said to have ruled Egypt from 750 to 650 BC. They were driven south by
the Syrians, says Grzymski. Ancient trash heaps have revealed many
details of daily life for the Nubians. Olive pits suggest the Nubians
either imported olives from the Mediterranean or grew them on the banks
of the Nile.

And the animal bones they left behind reveal much about the climate and
environment they lived in. Along with sheep and goats, the Nubians
consumed gazelle, antelope, warthogs and other wild animals now seldom
seen in Sudan. The bones, and ancient water reservoirs, suggest rainfall
patterns have changed in the past 2000 years, shifting 300 to 400
kilometres to the south. "There has been quite a change in environment,"
says Grzymski.
But it is the Nubians' written language that he finds most intriguing.
Borrowing 24 signs from
Egyptian hieroglyphics and using them as an alphabet, they developed
their own writing system, Grzymski says. "It's the second-oldest writing
system in Africa, but it has still not been deciphered." So far, 1,500
inscriptions written in the ancient Nubian language have been found, but
no one knows what they mean. Grzymski and his colleagues are sure to
find more as they continue excavating.

While finding more palaces would make Grzymiski happy, what he would
most like to find is some manner of bilingual inscription to enable
scholars to unlock the messages left by the Nubian people. He says the
archaeologists need something like a Rosetta Stone, the famed slab of
black basalt inscribed in Greek text and Egyptian hieroglyphs that
enabled scholars in the early 1800s to decipher the Egyptian writings.

[Anonymouse]

During this race discussion and my searches on google, I came across this one web-page www.white-history.com, by Arthur Kemp. Now I am aware that this a "white nationalist" and he has "bias", but then again everyone has "bias". Moreover, Arthur Kemp provides a thesis into something that I have long been interested in but never had time to get into it, namely the rise and fall of civilizations based on race. There are things which I do not agree with Arthur Kemp and certain claims made that I find too weak. Beyond that I am interested in the macro history it presents.

Of course for the sake of objectivity there is a website that is a childish refutation of Arthur Kemp http://www.geocities.com/refuting_kemp/ and they go into all the arguments of why there are no differences, mostly a verbal tug of war; a case of one says something over another.

Of course what I found most startling is the fact the refutation doesn't seem to challenge Kemp's main claim that all civilizations rise and fall based on model of who created that civilization and if they last, or are mixed and assimilated into other peoples' and cultures. The most solid example I can point to is the Roman Empire. And Kemp wasn't the first to claim this, as he uses the work of the noted Historian Edward Gibbon in his classic The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire, as reference, and Hitler further developed the theory in his Hitler's Second Book: The Unpublished Sequel to Mein Kampf recovered by the historian Gerhald Weinberg.

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by Fadix Margaret Munro
National Post
April 22, 2002

Royal Nubia Lies Under Sand


Canadian archaeologists in Sudan, using magnetometers, have found a
2,000-year-old
palace in the heart of the ancient black civilization.

If his partner had not fallen into an ancient tomb and broken both legs,
Professor Krzysztof
Grzymski would have discovered the ancient Nubian royal palace even
sooner. Still, Grzymski, a professor at the University of Toronto and a
curator at the Royal Ontario Museum, is a happy archaeologist these
days. He and his colleague, who is walking again, have found what they
believe are the remains of a palace and a colonnade built more
than 2,000 years ago by the greatest black civilization ever. "It's
quite remarkable, we can see them clearly beneath the sand," says
Grzymski.

The discovery is in the ancient, and for the most part buried, city of
Mero , which was the royal capital of ancient Nubia. It is located
about 200 kilometres northeast of present day Khartoum. Mero ,
considered one of the largest and most important archaeological sites in
Africa, was at the heart of a powerful black civilization that
flourished along the upper Nile River from about 750 BC to 350 AD.

Grzymski and his colleagues plan to start excavating the palace and
colonnade next winter. But for now Grzymski is content to pour over the
grainy images generated by a device that allowed the archaeolgists to
"see" the ruins buried beneath the sand without digging them out.
Explorers -- and tomb robbers -- have long been aware of Mero and its
riches. But archaeologists were so pre-occupied with Egypt's pyramids
and kingdoms to the north -- and deterred by the political conflict in
Sudan -- they largely ignored the ancient Nubian culture.

Many assumed it was merely an offshoot of a more advanced Egyptian
culture. "Here you've got this wonderful civilization that was literate,
which extended over 1,000 miles, maybe more, up the Nile, and which
built pyramids and palaces and temples and at the same time was a major
centre of iron production, and yet it is generally unknown to scholars
and the general public," says Grzymski.

He has been intrigued with the ruins since the 1970s, when he studied
under Professor Peter
Shinnie at the University of Calgary. Shinnie worked for years with
Sudanese scholars on the ancient iron smelters of Mero . Grzymski
helped keep the Canadian-Sudanese collaboration alive through his ROM
work. And in 1999, he and archaeologists at the University of Khartoum
were given a licence by Sudan's antiquities officials to explore the
50-hectare site of Mero . About 10 hectares of the ancient city had
been excavated in the early 1900s by British archaeologists. But most
remains entombed under sand and shrubs.

The archaeologists had a hunch about where the best ruins lay. But they
wanted to be sure. "You can spend weeks and weeks digging nothing," he
says. To find the most promising areas, Grzymski recruited Tomasz
Herbich, a Polish archaeologist and geophysicist who specializes in
using magnetometers to find buried ruins. Magnetometers are
sophisticated versions of the hand-held devices people use to find coins
on beaches and parks. They can differentiate between the magnetic
properties of materials -- such as sand, pottery, bricks -- and feed the
readings into a computer. The readings then generate maps.

Just before the archaeologists were to start scanning the Mero site
in the 2000-2001 season, Herbich, who works on ruins throughout northern
Africa, fell into an abandoned ancient tomb in Egypt, breaking both his
legs and injuring his spine. "It was a terrible accident," says
Grzymski. And it set the Mero scan back by one year.

In February, Hebrich and his magnetometer went to the Sudan site. Within
days, Herbich homed in on the palace and colonnade. The palace, about
400 square metres in area, is about a half a metre beneath the surface
of the sand. "There are traces of staircases, so it suggests there
must have been upper floors," Grzymski says. The street in front of
the building also came into view. To their surprise, they found what
appears to be a colonnade near one of the gates to the ancient city. "We
were absolutely delighted," says Grzymski. "It's really fascinating when
you can see the urban design without excavating."

In October, Grzymski will return to Mero to start digging with his
Sudanese partners. It remains to be seen what treasure lies beneath the
sand, but the materials uncovered in the region over the years have made
it clear the Nubian civilization was a powerful, inventive society. The
most incredible find was made almost 200 years ago in a pyramid near
Mero . An Italian physician and tomb robber known as Ferlini
accompanied an Ottoman invasion of Sudan in 1821 and discovered
exquisite gold amulets, signet rings and necklaces by blasting open the
pyramid of Queen Amanishakheto, one of Nubia's most powerful rulers.

Ferlini tried to sell the treasure when he returned to Europe. But
collectors would not believe such treasure could come from black Africa.
They thought he was trying to pass off fakes, says Grzymski. "They were
jewels of great quality and beauty and often influenced by Greek art,
which was really a surprise," he says. "People didn't expect deep in the
heart of Africa depictions resembling those of Egyptian or classical
Greek art." The ancient Nubians exchanged plenty of ideas and goods with
cultures around them. Nubian pyramids, monuments and jewels were clearly
influenced by Egyptian, Mediterranean and Arabian cultures. "They
worshiped many of the same gods as the Egyptians and the royalty was
buried in pyramids," says Grzymski.

Some of their pottery and burial talismans predate similar discoveries
in Egypt, indicating Nubia may have influenced the Egyptians rather than
the other way around. At the height of their culture, Nubian kings are
said to have ruled Egypt from 750 to 650 BC. They were driven south by
the Syrians, says Grzymski. Ancient trash heaps have revealed many
details of daily life for the Nubians. Olive pits suggest the Nubians
either imported olives from the Mediterranean or grew them on the banks
of the Nile.

And the animal bones they left behind reveal much about the climate and
environment they lived in. Along with sheep and goats, the Nubians
consumed gazelle, antelope, warthogs and other wild animals now seldom
seen in Sudan. The bones, and ancient water reservoirs, suggest rainfall
patterns have changed in the past 2000 years, shifting 300 to 400
kilometres to the south. "There has been quite a change in environment,"
says Grzymski.
But it is the Nubians' written language that he finds most intriguing.
Borrowing 24 signs from
Egyptian hieroglyphics and using them as an alphabet, they developed
their own writing system, Grzymski says. "It's the second-oldest writing
system in Africa, but it has still not been deciphered." So far, 1,500
inscriptions written in the ancient Nubian language have been found, but
no one knows what they mean. Grzymski and his colleagues are sure to
find more as they continue excavating.

While finding more palaces would make Grzymiski happy, what he would
most like to find is some manner of bilingual inscription to enable
scholars to unlock the messages left by the Nubian people. He says the
archaeologists need something like a Rosetta Stone, the famed slab of
black basalt inscribed in Greek text and Egyptian hieroglyphs that
enabled scholars in the early 1800s to decipher the Egyptian writings.

Well, that was an interesting read about the palace I must admit. I already knew of Nubia, otherwise it wasn't news. Is this the best example of a black civilization? Surely if we are all equal and we all started off at the same spot at the starting line, they could develop one that rivaled the Mayas, or China, etc.

[Darorinag]

Ahh the famous "you must prove that there is races in humans, it is not for me to disprove since you claim something". This is similar to Holocaust revisionists who ask the Holocaust defenders to produce evidence of gas chambers.

I don't follow. How is that similar, Anon? Am I missing something? Revisionists have proved that it's not possible for the gas chambers to have existed, since in the chambers that had holes in the ceiling through which the zyklon b could've been introduced, there were no cyanide residues found, whereas in the chambers that had no holes in the ceiling, there were cyanide residues.

In addition to the issue of doors and the way in which they open and the locks issue. I realise that's a bit off-topic, but I mentioned it to show that revisionists do not simply ask believers to prove their claims. they disprove them...

You guys have claimed that blacks had smaller brains, you guys posted Rushters table with cranial capacity etc... which I have demonstrated to be erronious

Where? How?

In fact from Rushton own most accurate simples from US army personals we see that the Cranial capacity of the three groups was about equal

"about equal" != equal.

Dan, in Japan Koreans are considered as inferiors, they are of the same "race" as you call it, and in their IQ tests they score less than Japenese.

I am talking about the average Asian vs. the average Black vs. the average White. I am not talking about variation in individual IQs.

In the past Polish Jews in the US were considered as dumb, and faced a lot of discrimination, they scored in IQ tests under the general population, while now Jews score higher.

Could be, but you haven't proven the correlation between higher IQs and social circumstances in this situation, have you?

We can reffer to Northern Irland, where Catholics are discriminated and considered as inferiors, they score 15 points lower in IQ tests than the Protestants. Both are "Caucasoid" like you claim.

Please cite studies that show that.

Blacks are not well addapted in our society, they do not have models to follow in science like whites, they have models in sport and other disciplines that do not require much education, there is many factors, while biologically speaking there is nothing "found" wich will permit us to conclude they are inferior.

They are very well adapted in our society. They have rights as much as whites do. Models have nothing to do with it. You are again talking about sociology, not biology, genetics, etc. We are talking about people like Kasparov. The myth of having a "hero" to look up to is BS. One doesn't need a model to be great. If one is great, one is great. period. Again, your position of insisting that since there isn't "evidence" that blacks are inferior in intelligence they must be equal is the same as mine (assuming that i REALLY don't have any evidence). Why? Because if you haven't proven something, it doesn't mean that it's wrong. It might be right or it might be wrong. Only in LAW does the "innocent until proven guilty work." You cannot assume that blacks are equal to whites when you have nothing to prove that they are (even if there is no proof that whites are superior to blacks either). Because you can't base a whole system of politics, society, justice, etc. based on an ASSUMPTION that has NO scientific basis.

Now you must "prove" that there is races in humans, it is not for me to disprove, since you claim something.

Again, you're using a fallacy here. Equality is not necessarily the "zero point", so it doesn't work that way. Your position is in no way any better than mine. That we still don't know it doesn't mean we have to stick by the assumption that both blacks and whites are equal. It means we go by what history shows us.

how come we can find more similarities between a black and a white than two whites or two blacks...

More similarities between a black and a white than 2 blacks or two whites? Please cite some sources for that one.
Humans and chimps share 99% genetic material. It doesn't mean humans and chimps are equal.

give me any other example in the animal kingdom where you can find more similarities between two different races than to of the same races. There is NONE!!!

You are using the animal kingdom as an example whenever it appeals to your hypothesis, and dismissing it when it doesn't. you still haven't told me why the "dog breed" example I mentioned (perhaps it was in the other thread?) doesn't qualify.

So, you claim there is races, it is to you to prove so.

No, dear lad. You must disprove my claims as well as prove your claims.

[Darorinag]

Ancient Nubians were 22% to 55% Negroid

Author: Fox CL
Filed: 28/03/2002, 03:01:29
Source: PubMed
Readers' Comments: (0)

mtDNA analysis in ancient Nubians supports the existence of gene flow between sub-Sahara and North Africa in the Nile Valley.

Fox CL.

Universitat de Barcelona, Spain.

The Hpal (np3,592) mitochondrial DNA marker is a selectively neutral mutation that is very common in sub-Saharan Africa and is almost absent in North African and European populations. It has been screened in a Meroitic sample from ancient Nubia through PCR amplification and posterior enzyme digestion, to evaluate the sub-Saharan genetic influences in this population. From 29 individuals analysed, only 15 yield positive amplifications, four of them (26.7%) displaying the sub-Saharan African marker. Hpa 1 (np3,592) marker is present in the sub-Saharan populations at a frequency of 68.7 on average. Thus, the frequency of genes from this area in the Merotic Nubian population can be estimated at around 39% (with a confidence interval from 22% to 55%). The frequency obtained fits in a south-north decreasing gradient of Hpa I (np3,592) along the African continent. Results suggest that morphological changes observed historically in the Nubian populations are more likely to be due to the existence of south-north gene flow through the Nile Valley than to in-situ evolution.

PMID: 9158841 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9158841&dopt=Abstract

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by Darorinag I don't follow. How is that similar, Anon? Am I missing something? Revisionists have proved that it's not possible for the gas chambers to have existed, since in the chambers that had holes in the ceiling through which the zyklon b could've been introduced, there were no cyanide residues found, whereas in the chambers that had no holes in the ceiling, there were cyanide residues.

In addition to the issue of doors and the way in which they open and the locks issue. I realise that's a bit off-topic, but I mentioned it to show that revisionists do not simply ask believers to prove their claims. they disprove them..

Let's stay on topic shall we? I know you are aching for anything to veer off into Holocuastianity debates, but this isn't about it. I merely made a reference to what Fadix said about proving the unprovable, since he says we claim race exists, and I merely made the same comparison to the Holocaust debate about those that defend the gas chambers as the method of killing cannot produce physical evidence of gas chambers, and use the same logic Fadix uses to then say that the onus is upon the deniers to prove that gas chambers didn't exist.

[Darorinag]

Anon, you can't use a false comparison and expect people not to go off-topic to point that out. I am not talking about holocaust, nor am I interested in bringing that debate to this forum. There is a revisionist forum for that. I was simply pointing out your fallacy. Please do not accuse me of something I have no intention of doing.

[Fadix]

Originally posted by Darorinag Ancient Nubians were 22% to 55% Negroid

Author: Fox CL
Filed: 28/03/2002, 03:01:29
Source: PubMed
Readers' Comments: (0)

mtDNA analysis in ancient Nubians supports the existence of gene flow between sub-Sahara and North Africa in the Nile Valley.

Fox CL.

Universitat de Barcelona, Spain.

The Hpal (np3,592) mitochondrial DNA marker is a selectively neutral mutation that is very common in sub-Saharan Africa and is almost absent in North African and European populations. It has been screened in a Meroitic sample from ancient Nubia through PCR amplification and posterior enzyme digestion, to evaluate the sub-Saharan genetic influences in this population. From 29 individuals analysed, only 15 yield positive amplifications, four of them (26.7%) displaying the sub-Saharan African marker. Hpa 1 (np3,592) marker is present in the sub-Saharan populations at a frequency of 68.7 on average. Thus, the frequency of genes from this area in the Merotic Nubian population can be estimated at around 39% (with a confidence interval from 22% to 55%). The frequency obtained fits in a south-north decreasing gradient of Hpa I (np3,592) along the African continent. Results suggest that morphological changes observed historically in the Nubian populations are more likely to be due to the existence of south-north gene flow through the Nile Valley than to in-situ evolution.

PMID: 9158841 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...&dopt=Abstract

"Ancient Nubians were 22% to 55% Negroid" is not the title Dan you added that. The only thing this study shows is that in their genetic makeup there was sub-Saharan, the rest was probably other Africans, mostly Northern black Africans. We see now that your goal is not to have a debate or exchange informations, but that you have in mind that blacks are inferior so eveything that would show the contrary must be just fake...

You even have gone as far as searching on the web anything that would show that the civilization was not black. Pathetic.

And, before asking where I have shown it to be wrong, go at the other thread I have used Rushton own most "credible" study of US military personals. The rest of your post is of no relevency, and the Irish IQ is widly known and you ignore that, even Lynn in his study find it out, and he reject it by claiming that it was due to rurale circonstances or such reasons. But for him it was OK to include miners from the other part of the world disconnected entirly from society.

[Darorinag]

"Ancient Nubians were 22% to 55% Negroid" is not the title Dan you added that.

I know. I just realised that. I copied it from somewhere else, not from the main page. But it still doesn't disqualify what I posted.

You even have gone as far as searching on the web anything that would show that the civilization was not black. Pathetic.

Does it matter? As long as they are scientifically proven, who cares? You might think it's pathetic, but we all have different views of what is pathetic and what isn't. You might think scientific proof of the existence of racial differences, or the attempt to prove it at any rate is pathetic, and I might think that being politically correct and brainwashed is pathetic. Again, you are putting yourself in a morally superior position, without proving that your position is the right one.

The rest of your post is of no relevency, and the Irish IQ is widly known and you ignore that

Ignore that? Sorry but I've never come across it. If you have proof and sources, please cite them, I'm interested in reading about it. I've honestly not come across it.

And how similar is "widely known" to the pope insisting that the earth is flat? That it's "widely" known doesn't mean it's been scientifically proven. I never claimed that "everyone knows blacks are inferior in intelligence." I gave examples and scientific and historical proof to back my claims. Whereas the best you can come up with is, it's "widely known." Well, too bad, but I didn't know it. And chances are, if I didn't know it, a lot of people didn't know it either. So do "educate" us.