Thanks Bush

[loseyourname]

Are you under the impression that a government requires the consent of its populace to rule? What gave you that idea?

[Anonymouse]

A government doesn't need the consent to rule, but it needs believers. Voting is the symbolic illusion that serves that purpose, that we have the ability to "vote".

[loseyourname]

Government doesn't need any believers outside of the government. All it needs is the means to put down any rebellions. There are plenty of believers in the military, and there will continue to be, whether or not you vote. Now give up your pipe dreams and move to an uninhabited island.

[Anonymouse]

It's not in tanks that the government draws it's strength, it's in the faith the masses have in the government.

At any point people can oust the government, since they outnumber it, but they don't because they all have faith that they somehow rule the government, which is silly at best.

[loseyourname]

Have you ever stopped to consider that perhaps they don't because they are happy with the way things are? Perhaps most Americans actually believe that their country gives them the opportunities that they want, and so they see no need to overthrow anything. Perhaps most Americans don't want to control the government; they just want to control their own lives.

[Anonymouse]

Or perhaps most people are brainwashed having matrix type illusions being fed to them to keep them subservient. Most people don't have control over their lives, that is the problem.

[loseyourname]

What is it that you hope to control, exactly? I don't think my family or my schooling or my job is any matrix-type illusion, and guess what? I'm happy with as a means to get where I hope to eventually be. If anything keeps me from getting there, it sure as hell isn't the government. Maybe you need to quit whining so much about that which is outside of your control and worry about what you can control. You are freer here than in almost any society in the history of the planet, and you are living in a tremendously affluent nation that affords you many opportunities that your home country could not. Perhaps you should appreciate what the nation has given you as you drive to school on public roads to obtain an education at a public university and are kept safe by a public police force. Dissent is an essential part of the democratic process and I'm not saying keep your mouth shut and never complain. I hold this nation to an extremely high standard that I know it will never reach, and I will never stop criticizing it and I will never stop giving my input. But I do realize that without this nation, the land here would still be a mishmash of competing and fighting colonies, I might very well be living in slavery, and you would be back in Armenia, struggling every day to keep afloat. This government is not ideal, and none ever will be, but affluence on the scale we see today would not be possible without the existence of large, unified nations. You can theorize all you want, but the only time large-scale non-governmental rule of the kind you advocate has ever proliferated has been in tribal peoples, and we can see how far they got.

[Anonymouse]

Governments do not create wealth, prosperity, or jobs. That you attribute all prosperity to government shows your lack of knowledge regarding economics. I still don't see a point to what you're saying and what the thread is about.

[loseyourname]

Try actually reading what I post. I never said governments create wealth or jobs or prosperity. I credit governments for making these possible. If you don't think this is the case, then you will have to do some explaining as to why only nation-states have managed to achieve this kind of prosperity. Strangely, we don't see any of this on south Pacific Islands or in the Australian outback. The old west didn't have large corporations and booming economies.

This doesn't tie in to the original purpose of the thread. You brought it off-topic when you went into your usual tired rant about why you don't vote, and I kept it off-topic by responding.

P.S. Do you not see how you continually criticize Fadix for doing exactly what you are doing here?

[Anonymouse]

Originally posted by loseyourname Try actually reading what I post. I never said governments create wealth or jobs or prosperity. I credit governments for making these possible. If you don't think this is the case, then you will have to do some explaining as to why only nation-states have managed to achieve this kind of prosperity. Strangely, we don't see any of this on south Pacific Islands or in the Australian outback. The old west didn't have large corporations and booming economies.

This doesn't tie in to the original purpose of the thread. You brought it off-topic when you went into your usual tired rant about why you don't vote, and I kept it off-topic by responding.

P.S. Do you not see how you continually criticize Fadix for doing exactly what you are doing here?

You threw this thread off topic loser, by this following post:

There is a choice to be as personally successful as you can be, have a nice family, some cool friends, and enjoy your life. The country isn't perfect, but it does give you that opportunity. If you don't like it, there are plenty of other countries that will give you the same opportunity.

Now, as far as your assertions about economics and nation-states, nation-states have done nothing more than restrict economic prosperity and the one vibrant case I can point out to, is Armenia itself. And this is a no brainer, the reason why the West is enjoying prosperity is a result of the industrial revolution, not governments. Governments don't "allow" prosperity, but only hamper on it, like a mafia of "this is my turf".

When you're ready to go back on topic, please tell me.