notes / comments

[freakyfreaky]

Re: notes / comments

French JDL recently shunned by some French j-ewish organizations for sabotaging speech by Shimon Peres to members of community.

http://paris-chronicler.blogspot.com/2008/04/journalist-discovers-jdl-elephant-in.html

[freakyfreaky]

Re: notes / comments

Oh, they know they have them in their own numbers. They speak of it. Perhaps, not publicly, but, nevertheless, they do. Noone is representing that they are more tolerant of their own misgivings then others. They are just better at packaging their message and censoring views within their own and from otars that do not conform to their position.

The JDL in LA that was disbanded by their own conspiracy post 9/11. Other fanatics and radicals. Yitzhak Rabin's assasin. The Stern gang. There is a long list.

In fact, "Munich" caused Spielberg some backlash even though some critics recognized that he was trying to demonstrate that the Israeli avengers were no better than those against whom they exacted revenge.

There is no doubt that politics, propaganda and the players defines what is an act of terrorism, what is an act of justifiable foreign police, and what is an act of defending freedom.

[Azad]

Re: notes / comments

There is a very fine line between freedom fighter and terrorist depending on politics, the players and the circumstances on the field.

The point I was trying to make from the beginning. If ara or Mr. Saroyan would have compared our "ventures" to that of the Jooish one we would have been packaged as "freedom fighters". I still have to see Joos on a Joowish forum call their ventures as terrorism ... only on an Armenian forum by "Armenians".

[freakyfreaky]

Re: notes / comments

There is a very fine line between freedom fighter and terrorist depending on politics, the players and the circumstances on the field. I don't think Manouchian was trying to draw attention to the German occupation of France. That fact was well known.

While the ideology of the group may have been unfavorable amongst his some of his countrymen, their purpose was to get people to leave their country.

Viva la resistance. Mind you, there were plenty of tribe members (not our tribe) in the resistance. You could appreciate how they would be encouraged to assist allied forces in toppling the Nazis. Or, maybe not.

On the corrolary, you may consider that after Ottoman Turkey suffered horribly in WWI and committed genocide on its own people, they were left to being reduced to the pages of history books and their people had to change their alphabet, vocabulary, language, names, etc. in an attempt to erase their past.

Tehlirian committed a crime of passion, his jurors forgave him.

[Azad]

Re: notes / comments

Whoop... I guess that one went right over your head then, Azad. There were no Israelis during the timeline that you presented. You need to read jgk3's post above. Basically, there are bad apples in every basket. The PLO's activities in the 70s and 80s preceded and overlapped some of the notorious events that I believe Mr. Baliozian was referring to which Mr. Saroyan was likely present to perceive.

Let us see how you will handle this one.

I am sure you heard of the "Manouchian group" ... mainly a Joowish group let by ONE Armenian. In your view were they terrorists? or just like the movie "Munich" the terrorist are glorified as the "revenge squad" doing good in these particular scenarios since the equation was around Joowish victimhood.

In the views of Mr. Saroyan or ara's speculation Mr. Tehlirian was a terrorist too. He should have just shoved it all in and moved on in life, well unless if he was a Joo the world would have understood his pain and suffering.

[jgk3]

Re: notes / comments

Terrorism is purely political. To look at it in any other context is to misrepresent it. But why single out groups that do it (be it Muslims, or the IRA, or even Armenians), when states (i.e., governments of all kinds) routinely engage in terrorism in the name of peace, prosperity and the greater good of the nation, couching it in language of "foreign policy" or even the irony of ironies, "combating terrorism" or a "war on terror."

Why does Mr. Baliozian fail to condemn the existence of governments, which ipso facto are based on the rule of violence, coercion and terror? Why describe it as simply a group phenomenon?

If we are serious about condemning terrorism, we should condemn the biggest terrorist, government itself (any government), because these localized terrorist phenomenon (muslim, Tamil Tigers in India, IRA, Armenians, etc.) are all reactions and effects of state terrorism.

Well Mr. Baliozian?

good point... I understand this phenomenon better now after reading this.

[freakyfreaky]

Re: notes / comments

Whoop... I guess that one went right over your head then, Azad. There were no Israelis during the timeline that you presented. You need to read jgk3's post above. Basically, there are bad apples in every basket. The PLO's activities in the 70s and 80s preceded and overlapped some of the notorious events that I believe Mr. Baliozian was referring to which Mr. Saroyan was likely present to perceive.

"In the late 70s and early 80s, the Armenian liberation army (ASALA) assassinated Turkish diplomats to focus media attention on the Armenian genocide. In July 1983, a Turkish diplomat was killed in Brussels. In Paris, six people died and 48 were wounded when a bomb exploded in front of the Turkish Airlines' check-in desk at Orly airport. ASALA killed 39 diplomats in a decade. Many of the gunmen were trained in Libya and had Palestinian connections. The Armenians have, at different times, identified with both Palestinians and J-ews." http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardia...kend7.weekend2

In conclusion, Mr. Baliozian may be biased but I doubt he is confused.

[Azad]

Re: notes / comments

Azad, there was no Israel until 1948. Between 1920 and 1948, the territory from which Israel carved was known as the British Mandate of Palestine. Even the link you cite refers to Palestine.

Now, if you want to go back and understand wherefrom the guerilla warfare practiced by the likes of the PLO, etc. originates from, get your hands on a copy of the Italian classic - the Battle of Algiers. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058946/plotsummary

Freaky I am very familiar with "1948" and the headache it brought to the rest of the world, not to mention one of the main reasons of our Genocide with their first attempt of creating the same joow hole during WWI .... now I don't understand your 1962 Algerian independence from the DeGaulist era that was almost 20 years later. Irrelevant ... I was trying to convey the injustice we are associated with is with the loosing entity and not the "winning" one.

[freakyfreaky]

Re: notes / comments

Azad, there was no Israel until 1948. Between 1920 and 1948, the territory from which Israel carved was known as the British Mandate of Palestine. Even the link you cite refers to Palestine.

Now, if you want to go back and understand wherefrom the guerilla warfare practiced by the likes of the PLO, etc. originates from, get your hands on a copy of the Italian classic - the Battle of Algiers. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058946/plotsummary

Anonymouse, you should appreciate this as it looks at this historical freedom fight from the view of state sponsored terrorism and that of guerrilla warfare.

And, certainly, Saroyan was alive and kicking strong when the PLO acted in violent resistance against what they considered the unlawful Israeli occupation.

[Azad]

Re: notes / comments

... and when Armenians adopted Palestinians as their role models and engaged in acts of terrorism and assassination, he (Saroyan) was at a loss and could not understand why his fellow Armenians behaved that way.

I beleive you or Mr Saroyan were or are confusing Palestians with Israelis.

http://www.doublestandards.org/unbunche.html

There are even movies glorifing one's "terrorism".


"La raison du plus fort est toujours la meilleure".