Pro: Agnosticism / Con: Atheism

[Anonymouse]

Or maybe you can take your presumtions about people's happiness to a more appropriate forum.

Perhaps you can be a bit more mature and add on to it, as opposed to the same nonsense you spew when confronted with something you disagree. In any event, you can call it a presumption, I beg to differ.

[dusken]

Perhaps you can be a bit more mature and add on to it, as opposed to the same nonsense you spew when confronted with something you disagree. In any event, you can call it a presumption, I beg to differ.

Mature? I do not want this thread to be another discussion about faith in religion. It is not the topic. Be more mature and accept the fact that you have nothing to say regarding this topic because it does not concern you. You always say I am spewing the same nonsense when, in fact, this is a very different thread. You are the one who is constantly trying to bring in your thoughts on faith into every conversation and are now trying to justify it by calling me immature.

[Anonymouse]

Mature? I do not want this thread to be another discussion about faith in religion. It is not the topic. Be more mature and accept the fact that you have nothing to say regarding this topic because it does not concern you. You always say I am spewing the same nonsense when, in fact, this is a very different thread. You are the one who is constantly trying to bring in your thoughts on faith into every conversation and are now trying to justify it by calling me immature.

Yes, you are being immature, and my point was that both atheism and agnosticism imply relativism, and furthermore, produce a breakdown in morality, because morality is hopelessly tied to religion, not atheism or agnosticism, since the latter two make up morality as they go along.

[dusken]

Yes, you are being immature, and my point was that both atheism and agnosticism imply relativism, and furthermore, produce a breakdown in morality, because morality is hopelessly tied to religion, not atheism or agnosticism, since the latter two make up morality as they go along.

This is unbelievable. This is about agnosticism versus atheism, not faith versus agnosticism and atheism. What about my actions to keep this thread on topic is immature? If you want to discuss faith, pull l.y.n. into the proper thread and have a blast.

[Anonymouse]

This is unbelievable. This is about agnosticism versus atheism, not faith versus agnosticism and atheism. What about my actions to keep this thread on topic is immature? If you want to discuss faith, pull l.y.n. into the proper thread and have a blast.

You view agnosticism and atheism as conflicting, I do not. That was merely the point. Are you uncomfortable with that?

[Sip]

It's interesting but recently I realized that majority of people are fixated on keeping the terms pure, it really doesn't matter whether there is a broader meaning.

Whether there is a broader meaning or not, it must be established explicitly rather than relying on implicit assumptions about our definitions. Otherwise, there will be nothing but chaos as nothing will mean anything specific anymore and everything will be subject to personal interpretation.

[Anonymouse]

Whether there is a broader meaning or not, it must be established explicitly rather than relying on implicit assumptions about our definitions. Otherwise, there will be nothing but chaos as nothing will mean anything specific anymore and everything will be subject to personal interpretation.

I tend to agree. Nicely said, btw.

[Crimson Glow]

Dusken, your initial post and explaination of agnosticism is the very reason I love "The Matrix" so much (Yes, I'm bringing it up again, people....SHUT UP!). Whether the Warchowski brothers meant it this way or not, to me it is a metaphor for breaking away from the rules, labeling, defining, etc, wheather literal law, or refering to human behavior...a metaphor for the philosophy that anything is possible if you realize that all of the above are part of a program that has imprisoned every human mind since birth. And the system was established for the very reason anileve alluded to: People fear not having answers. They want to always be in the know. They set up social customs and structures, morals, values, norms, education systems, make scientific progress, and so on all for the sake of covering up the fact that we don't know jack about what we are, or why we are here. For everything that can't be defined or answered, there is god and religion. All the inexplicable are "acts of god".

I'm not going to get into the marriage thing again, but this whole people struggling to come up with concrete answers to live by is why lives and relationships are a meaningless mess right now. Everyone has to pick a mold or character to fit into, and progress down the checklist of things that follow the flow of "the truths". People's lives revolve around acting, but there's only so long anyone can put up an act. This constant dance around the outside shadows of one's true self is what leaves people's lives in disarray. The mass confusion in not understanding why "the answers" aren't working...it destroys your being and relationships. If you can't figure yourself out, how are you going to figure out what you want out of life, let alone another person? Just look at what people "want" or "need". How many of those things are actually personal desires as opposed to things that you feel others would expect of you, or envy you for? We're so busy pretending we've got life all figured out better than the next person, that the gap from what we become, and what we could have been continues to grow (yes, that's the Bob Frissell philosophy).

Oh! Foods here! More on this after some tasty Arby's roast beef sammiches!!!

[dusken]

You view agnosticism and atheism as conflicting, I do not. That was merely the point. Are you uncomfortable with that?

I am not uncomfortable with anything but I do not agree. It is perfectly obvious to me that they are not the same. But again, if you do not have an opinion regarding one opposing the other, which you just expressed that you do not, then stop posting in here. I made this thread with the intention of a format that would be an atheist versus an agnostic. Also, I made it feeling it would not get that response.

[Anonymouse]

Dusken, your initial post and explaination of agnosticism is the very reason I love "The Matrix" so much (Yes, I'm bringing it up again, people....SHUT UP!). Whether the Warchowski brothers meant it this way or not, to me it is a metaphor for breaking away from the rules, labeling, defining, etc, wheather literal law, or refering to human behavior...a metaphor for the philosophy that anything is possible if you realize that all of the above are part of a program that has imprisoned every human mind since birth. And the system was established for the very reason anileve alluded to: People fear not having answers. They want to always be in the know. They set up social customs and structures, morals, values, norms, education systems, make scientific progress, and so on all for the sake of covering up the fact that we don't know jack about what we are, or why we are here. For everything that can't be defined or answered, there is god and religion. All the inexplicable are "acts of god".

I'm not going to get into the marriage thing again, but this whole people struggling to come up with concrete answers to live by is why lives and relationships are a meaningless mess right now. Everyone has to pick a mold or character to fit into, and progress down the checklist of things that follow the flow of "the truths". People's lives revolve around acting, but there's only so long anyone can put up an act. This constant dance around the outside shadows of one's true self is what leaves people's lives in disarray. The mass confusion in not understanding why "the answers" aren't working...it destroys your being and relationships. If you can't figure yourself out, how are you going to figure out what you want out of life, let alone another person? Just look at what people "want" or "need". How many of those things are actually personal desires as opposed to things that you feel others would expect of you, or envy you for? We're so busy pretending we've got life all figured out better than the next person, that the gap from what we become, and what we could have been continues to grow (yes, that's the Bob Frissell philosophy).

Oh! Foods here! More on this after some tasty Arby's roast beef sammiches!!!

Such a pessimistic outlook. The Matrix philosophy has many cool things which I agree with, but many things which are wrong as well. It makes the same epistemological errors which Marx made, that people aren't thinking supposedly, the way they should be thinking, and that society has them in a prism.