Pro: Agnosticism / Con: Atheism

[anileve]

You view agnosticism and atheism as conflicting, I do not.

How is that Anon?

[dusken]

... please read again more carefully this time.

No.

[dusken]

Arvestaked's Entertaining Website du Jour...

http://www.apatheticagnostic.com/

[Anonymouse]

How is that Anon?

From the perspective of morality, I should clarify.

[dusken]

I hope I am not bastardizing the words...

Anyone who considers himself infallible cannot be right even when right. By that I mean that, an arrogant fool is in no position to dispense wisdom.

When two uncertainties meet, a near-certainty may emerge. As for certainties: Let's leave them into the hands of skinheads, men of faith, mullahs, imams, and jihadists….

[winoman]

I hope I am not bastardizing the words...

good words - both most excellent - I agree wholeheartedly...well said...

[winoman]

Yes, you are being immature, and my point was that both atheism and agnosticism imply relativism, and furthermore, produce a breakdown in morality, because morality is hopelessly tied to religion, not atheism or agnosticism, since the latter two make up morality as they go along.

I love this - from about the most relativistic poster i have ever seen on this forum (I've been lurking for quite sometime BTW).

So Anon - Is it or is it not moral/permissable or what have you to engage in pre-marital sex? Don't you believe in the holiness of matrimony? Or do you have a seperate standard for what you do versus what you preach?

Who are you to make this judgement? Are you not selectively accepting and or rejecting moral commandments which are very clearly laid out in the Bible?

Same goes for the sabbath? Can you honestly say that you keep the sabbath holy, don't take gods name in vain? Don't covet what others have etc etc etc....not to mention all the good things that jesus exorts you to do...are you so (moraly) pure - so sure of what is right and what is wrong - that you can pass judgement upon others?

And one cannot prove that morality is an outgrowth of religion - in fact I would argue pretty much the opposite - that morality preceeds religion and perhaps becomes a cornerstone for it - but that it exists and has existed independently of it - preceeding speech and communication (and the ability to transmit religion) as we know it.

[dusken]

As lovely as all of this is, people are losing site of the fact that this thread is about Agnosticism versus Atheism: a clash that is independant of morality. There is a Utilitarianism/Morality thread. The never-ending, cyclic discussion of morality should take place there.

[winoman]

OK - sorry - just responding to a post I saw in this thread.

While I (proudly) call myself an atheist - (and can back it up)...in fact I ultimatly would be catagorized agnostic - only in that I admit that I do not know. But I have yet to come across any (religous) explanations that I deem credible nor do I think that the theistic path will ever lead to the truth or answers (even if we were capable of comprehending such).

[dusken]

OK - sorry - just responding to a post I saw in this thread.

While I (proudly) call myself an atheist - (and can back it up)...in fact I ultimatly would be catagorized agnostic - only in that I admit that I do not know. But I have yet to come across any (religous) explanations that I deem credible nor do I think that the theistic path will ever lead to the truth or answers (even if we were capable of comprehending such).

The idea is that atheism, by its very nature, makes the same mistake that theism does. Saying, "But I have yet to come across any (religous) explanations that I deem credible" ignores the fact that the "paths" are infinite and in saying, "nor do I think that the theistic path will ever lead to the truth or answers" you over looked the fact that your thought is speculative and that does not lead to answers or truth either. I have also stated that "God" or "gods" and, in turn, a given theistic outlook cannot be defined enough to be a part in a discussion of origins and that things can only be discussed with language that can be agreed upon.

I believe atheism is an emotional/carnal reaction to religion.