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question by a non-armenian.

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  • #21
    If your interested in some views on the American Indian experience check these out:



    and (sorry couldn't find a clean link - was mixed with other stuff - so I just exttracted):

    Kill the Indian, Save the Man
    The Genocidal Impact of American Indian Residential Schools
    by Ward Churchill
    ISBN 0-87286-434-0
    Paperback, 142 pp
    $15.95
    $11.17

    The devastating results of a 100-year program to eradicate Native North American culture

    For five consecutive generations, from roughly 1880–1980, Native American children in the United States and Canada were forcibly taken from their families and relocated to residential schools. The stated goal of this government program was to “kill the Indian to save the man.” Half of the children did not survive the experience, and those who did were left permanently scarred. The resulting alcoholism, suicide, and the transmission of trauma to successive generations has led to a social disintegration with results that can only be described as genocidal.

    "The Indian residential schools in both the US and Canada... include[d] the forced exile of children and the prohibition of the use of a national language or religion.... Churchill presents a bleak yet utterly necessary history of a brutal system that was in effect until 1990." –Booklist

    “Painful and powerful, Kill the Indian, Save the Man provides the first comprehensive study of the effects of the residential schools into which American Indian children were forced by the U.S. and Canadian governments. With his usual painstaking accuracy and moving prose, Churchill exposes the genocidal nature of this important dimension of the assimilationist policies that continue to decimate Native North American communities. This book is essential reading for anyone concerned with the ravages of settler state colonialism or the effects of transgenerational trauma.” — Natsu Taylor Saito, Professor of Law, Georgia State University, and author of We Have Met the Enemy…American Exceptionalism and Subversion of the Rule of Law

    “The analysis and evidence deployed herein are both compelling and altogether consistent with what I’ve discovered in my own research and experience as a judge on a special tribunal assessing the effects of residential schooling on the Aboriginal peoples of Canada. I urge all people who oppose genocide—from whatever source, against whatever victims—to read this book.” — Jim Craven (Omahkohkiaayo-i’poyi), citizen of the Blackfoot Nation and Professor of Economics, Clark College

    Ward Churchill (Keetowah Cherokee) is the author of A Little Matter of Genocide, Struggle for the Land, and Indians R Us, among other books. He is currently a Professor of American Indian Studies at the University of Colorado, Boulder.

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    • #23
      Hey man just do a pow wow everything will be ok.

      Comment


      • #24
        I'd say a good part of the reason that Armenians hurt Turks more than Native Americans hate Europeans is simply the question of who to blame. The Armenians are a small nation that were ravaged fairly recently in a short span of time by another relatively small nation. Native Americans, on the other hand, have been either inadvertently (through disease) or systematically exterminated continuously for 500 years, by any and every group of people that came to the Americas. This isn't just a wartime genocide we're talking about, perpetrated within narrow borders. This is the near complete elimination of two continents worth of people by many generations of disparate interests. For the few who remain, what possible benefit can there be in hating every single person of non-native descent living in the Americas? There is no one nation that can be singled out and blamed (though personally, I do harbor a lot of resentment toward the Spanish - and Andrew Jackson, but he is only one man long dead).

        Another thing to consider is the rise of the Hispanic population. Most of the Americas is already predominately Hispanic (everything with the exception of Canada and most of the US). If trends continue, the US may very well follow shortly. Though the power structures and political systems will likely always be European, the population itself may very well become Mestizo, which at the very least is a hybrid culture, even if every vestige of Native culture itself is all but gone. While it is a quaint thought to preserve and revive this culture, what would be the point? Personally, I would rather not go back to the agricultural days of my ancestors, nor would I like to adopt their animistic naturalism. Modern housing, mass-produced food, and contemporary science and technology are positive things, as far as I'm concerned. The respect for nature, reverence of elders, and cooperative society are all nice cultural elements, but there is no reason that they can't simply be included into my own personal culture, and perhaps the broader American culture as a matter of general principle, rather than as a resurrection of specific rituals and myths.

        When it comes down to it, what exactly is the difference between a Native and a white man? I'm half Irish/German, and you know what? The Irish have been massacred a plenty by the English and are still being oppressed. The Germans perpetrated the most notorious genocide of the modern era. The tribe that my father is descended from even conspired with the US government to eliminate rival tribes. None of us are without guilt, historically speaking. Personally, I think it's better to move forward than to look back.

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        • #25
          Originally posted by CatWoman
          WHAT? That's a joke right? Whta's the same? I wouldn't even put them in the same category. As far as Native Americans go, they've lost mainly lands not people, definitely not 1.5 million!
          Are you kidding me? Two of the largest medieval civilizations on the planet - the Incas and Aztecs - were completely wiped out by the Spanish. It's true that when the first wave of English colonists arrived on the eastern seaboard of North America, they infected the local population with exotic diseases to the point where when the next wave came, there was essentially no Native population left and the land was empty enough to build the United States on. You seem to be forgetting, however, the remaining 37 states. The entire continent west of the Appalachians was still populated mostly by Natives (aside from California and Texas, where the Spanish Franciscans had long since done their deed). What exactly is it that you think happened to a continent's worth of people? Don't even try to tell me that all Native America lost was its land. At least the Armenian people have a diaspora; they had the option to leave for a better place when they were being forced away or slaughtered. Why is it exactly that you think Armenians had that option? Because the land that they (read: you) moved to was emptied of its native population over the span of several centuries to clear the way for you.

          Think about it this way. If there was a still a large Native population being persecuted in the United States, and many of them fled to Turkey to live on lands stolen from the Armenian people, how would you feel about it?

          Comment


          • #26
            Originally posted by loseyourname
            I think it's better to move forward than to look back.
            That’s my point throughout this entire thread. Unlike blacks or Natives, our case never ended. It’s been 90 years and we’re still struggling for genocide recognition! The people responsible for the massacres have also blocked their border and put economic pressure on our country. Not to mention all those annoying stories they come up with on how Armenians were the ones killing turks, there is this website called 'turkish genocide by Armenians' haha. Is it possible to move forward? Obviously not, because everything's happening in the present and nothing is settled from the past.

            Originally posted by loseyourname
            At least the Armenian people have a diaspora; they had the option to leave for a better place when they were being forced away or slaughtered. Why is it exactly that you think Armenians had that option? Because the land that they (read: you) moved to was emptied of its native population over the span of several centuries to clear the way for you.

            What’s up with all the nonsense? Armenians had the option to leave for America during the genocide because America had been emptied of Natives and had room for Armenians? First of, Armenians didn’t have the option to leave for a better place, it’s not like they were told “hey buddy, either leave or we’ll starve you to death”, some of them escaped. A big difference between ‘the option to leave’ and ‘escape’. As the matter of fact, when marching to the Syrian Desert, they didn’t even know they were marching to their deaths. Yeah Armenians had the option to leave, but 1.5 million of them decided to stay! And how you connect that to Natives Americans’ slaughter is just ridiculous. Maybe you were too sleepy to make that post.

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            • #27
              Originally posted by CatWoman
              What’s up with all the nonsense? Armenians had the option to leave for America during the genocide because America had been emptied of Natives and had room for Armenians? First of, Armenians didn’t have the option to leave for a better place, it’s not like they were told “hey buddy, either leave or we’ll starve you to death”, some of them escaped. A big difference between ‘the option to leave’ and ‘escape’. As the matter of fact, when marching to the Syrian Desert, they didn’t even know they were marching to their deaths. Yeah Armenians had the option to leave, but 1.5 million of them decided to stay! And how you connect that to Natives Americans’ slaughter is just ridiculous. Maybe you were too sleepy to make that post.
              I wasn't trying to connect the events, but rather give you some perspective. By "option to leave," I mean that you could leave, that you had somewhere to leave to. Your options were better than fight and die, or don't fight and die. I just don't want you to get some kind of victim complex. Half the people in this country are here because their ancestors were either being killed, persecuted, or were starving to death. And guess what they did when they got here? They killed, persecuted, and starved people to death - if they got here in time. If they got here later, they simply reaped the fruits of genocide.

              Comment


              • #28
                Originally posted by anup_j_j

                hyebruin: no iam not a punjabi ,iam a syrian christian from kerala .
                thats cool ...one of my friends is from kerala (smart people in kerala )..hehehe ..welcome to the forum

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                • #29
                  Originally posted by Inna
                  thats cool ...one of my friends is from kerala (smart people in kerala )..hehehe ..welcome to the forum
                  hi inna ,so u know kerala tats nice.

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                  • #30
                    i think armenians are not doing justice to themselves by not giving enough publicity abt armenian genocide.here in india idon think anyone knows abt it.ithink thats the case in most of the countries.
                    armenians have to learn from the jews ,
                    they have earned somuch sympathy after ww2 that people wont talk against them for the fear of being called antisemitist.
                    armenian should know that they have to get support from around the world not just armenians.world support can help a lot ,once everyone else recogonise the genocide turkey will have to recogonise .
                    genocide recognition can help solve political prob with azerbaijan.and maybe even resettling armenians into turkish lands and giving it to armenians.
                    turkey is dying to get into EU so this is the best chance to pressurise them.

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