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question by a non-armenian.

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  • #31
    Originally posted by anup_j_j
    turkey is dying to get into EU so this is the best chance to pressurise them.
    France has already put that ultimatum before Turkey as part of the conditions to getting their vote. The problem is a political and foreign relations one. Isreal and America are on Turkey's side. As such, that makes for tough foreign foes to contend with for the rest of the world. Therefore, even IF other nations know about the truth, and want to recognize it, they'll hold back on account of the realation repercussions such a move would cost.

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    • #32
      anup/crimson glow - you are both incredibly naive (but I forgive you...).

      No one (pretty much) outside of Armenians really cares about the Genocide - nor will they ever care really - its in the PAST and under the radar...and the past is over man - I really don't have the space (or patience) to elaborate on this but I hope you can figure out the multitude of reasons why this is so (in nearly everyones eyes).

      And France...well...yeah - don't fool yourself that they really care (outside of a very few bleeding heart types [ie very manipulatable by anyone who decides to pull at the heartstrings of the moment...]) - if the Armenian Genocide gets any real play at all (in Europe) - it will only be for political leverage - to keep the Turks out because they don't want them due to the fact that they are Muslim and poor and breed quickly (and France already percieves that it has a problem with various North Africans and such in this regard).

      Both of your talk makes me think of Armenians of the Ottoman Empire who always became heartened and optomistic by the promisses of outsiders...

      Sometimes I think that the only way Turks will ever recognize that a Genocide of Armenians occured - perpetuated by them - is if to recognize such would prevent their own annihilation - nothing less then this would be worth it in their eyes. And as for the rest of the world - well - our resident rodent's idol said it best eh? - "Who after all remembers the extermination of the Armenians?" - they pretty much don't and never will - we aren't the Jews - we don't own LA (Hollywood) or Washington DC (Capitol Hill) - we have no oil or other precious commodity (perhaps we might stumble accross the one ring - I don't know - and even if they ever find the Arc on Ararat the Turks would own it - and would claim it as their own!) - oh and ASALA is no more (and Egoyan is no Spielburg - for better or worse...) - so how else will we get publicity - etc etc etc etc - keep dreaming...(oh yeah - don't forget to attend the rally on the 24th!)

      Comment

      • #33
        Originally posted by winoman
        anup/crimson glow - you are both incredibly naive (but I forgive you...).

        No one (pretty much) outside of Armenians really cares about the Genocide - nor will they ever care really - its in the PAST and under the radar...and the past is over man -
        Well, with an ARMENIAN having an attitude like that towards the cause, I can't blame others for not caring...

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        • #34
          Originally posted by CatWoman
          Well, with an ARMENIAN having an attitude like that towards the cause, I can't blame others for not caring...
          Well let me just say I've done plenty...but I'm no fool either...

          Comment

          • #35
            Ummm...what the hell exactly about my post sounded optimistic? I'm well aware that bringing up the genocide is just a pawn move by Europe in the political chess game being held over denying acceptance to Turky. I didn't say there were nations knocking down the door, trying to get our cause recognized. I said IF any nation knows the truth, and IF they wanted to officially recognize it, they couldn't anyways due to political reasons. This was in response to anup saying we don't do enough. I was basically saying it doesn't matter how much we do, due to the current circumstances. That sounds pretty far from optimistic to me.

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            • #36
              OK Crimson - understood - it just seemed to me that you were holding out some great hope for France to do us right...and maybe they will - if by doing so happens to further their own ends...and that would be great I guess (though ultimatly I'd like to see Turkey in the EU - ultimatly - but that is another discussion I think)...and of course I want to see the Genocide more (officially and unofficially) recognized and acccepted. Like all of us my family suffered and Turkey continues to prolong it as far as I'm concerned...but I can't see counting on anyone but ourselves to one day force Turkey to do such - under threat of some incredible pain....

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              • #37
                Originally posted by anup_j_j
                correct me if iam wrong .i have heard the armenians are the same as the turks racially, it was only bcus of there religion they were persecuted(the genocide).



                by the way, iam from india.
                hello to ual armenian frnds

                honest mastake. but some armenians will get pissed at you if you compare them with turks.

                Comment

                • #38
                  Originally posted by winoman
                  anup/crimson glow - you are both incredibly naive (but I forgive you...).

                  No one (pretty much) outside of Armenians really cares about the Genocide - nor will they ever care really - its in the PAST and under the radar...and the past is over man - I really don't have the space (or patience) to elaborate on this but I hope you can figure out the multitude of reasons why this is so (in nearly everyones eyes).

                  And France...well...yeah - don't fool yourself that they really care (outside of a very few bleeding heart types [ie very manipulatable by anyone who decides to pull at the heartstrings of the moment...]) - if the Armenian Genocide gets any real play at all (in Europe) - it will only be for political leverage - to keep the Turks out because they don't want them due to the fact that they are Muslim and poor and breed quickly (and France already percieves that it has a problem with various North Africans and such in this regard).

                  Both of your talk makes me think of Armenians of the Ottoman Empire who always became heartened and optomistic by the promisses of outsiders...

                  Sometimes I think that the only way Turks will ever recognize that a Genocide of Armenians occured - perpetuated by them - is if to recognize such would prevent their own annihilation - nothing less then this would be worth it in their eyes. And as for the rest of the world - well - our resident rodent's idol said it best eh? - "Who after all remembers the extermination of the Armenians?" - they pretty much don't and never will - we aren't the Jews - we don't own LA (Hollywood) or Washington DC (Capitol Hill) - we have no oil or other precious commodity (perhaps we might stumble accross the one ring - I don't know - and even if they ever find the Arc on Ararat the Turks would own it - and would claim it as their own!) - oh and ASALA is no more (and Egoyan is no Spielburg - for better or worse...) - so how else will we get publicity - etc etc etc etc - keep dreaming...(oh yeah - don't forget to attend the rally on the 24th!)
                  a country's foreign policy is to a large extent defined by public opinion.to create public opinion you have to give awareness .and the armenians have not given enough awareness abt its case.use the net.use different forums,use email chains.and market the case to as many people as possible.
                  u r right the armanian case is an old one(100 yrs)and the past is past.but it is not a closed case ,every case needs a closure ,and i guess its the duty of every armenian to fight for it.

                  eventhough the genocide is around 100 yrs old.the armenian republic is just, 12 yrs i guess.and there is still the usettled question of karbakh.so it would be good if karbakh and the genocide is clubed and then do the bargaining.

                  jews maybe having hollywood but armenians can use them as both have gone through the same experience.use there memmorial days to project ur case.

                  also the evangelists among the neocons can be good allies,armenians slaughtered for being christians are therefore christian martyrs this idea should be projected .

                  all depends on how u sell this case.

                  Comment

                  • #39
                    I disagree. Armenians have made much noise throughout the years concernng the Genocide...its just that the 'audience" is for the most part uninterested. And do you really want evangeical neocons as your allies if even it was/is possible? Do Armenians really want to have to count on (the wims) of others any more? And its easy to say use Hollywood - make a movie etc - that will highlight our plight before the world - etc (but we see what a splash Ararat made...basically none...)..so what do you suggest?

                    Comment

                    • #40
                      Wino, have a little faith man, it seems like we've got German Christian Democratic Union and Christian Social Union on our side as well, which is killing Turkey!
                      EXPATICA

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