question by a non-armenian.

[winoman]

I've never had a problem admitting or an issue with the fact that I am a person of no faith. Neither am I a believer. And in fact I am (originally) from Missouri (perhaps the only Armenian ever from there eh?)....the "show me" state....

[ArmenianKid]

i have seen the website saying the armenians carryed out the genocide. which the is the dumbest thing i have ever seen. winoman i have a hard time beliveing that your a armenian, and if u are u have to be one of the most worst one i have ever heard of. by saying we should forget about the genocide and relize only armenians care about is about the most-turkish thing i have ever heard.we should never forget what happend to our ancestors, and never give up untill turkey admits to their crime agaisnt humanity. nazis were prosicuted for the holocasust i want to see the living members of the turkish death squads in court. or at the very least a damn apoligy from the turkish government. and theres a huge diffrence between us and the native americans. the armenians where a group of people, not many tribes waring with one another when this happend.my great grandfather lived threw this and is still alive now so i and hopefully all other armenians wont give up untill we get reconision from the turkish people and its government.

[anup_j_j]

I disagree. Armenians have made much noise throughout the years concernng the Genocide...its just that the 'audience" is for the most part uninterested. And do you really want evangeical neocons as your allies if even it was/is possible? Do Armenians really want to have to count on (the wims) of others any more? And its easy to say use Hollywood - make a movie etc - that will highlight our plight before the world - etc (but we see what a splash Ararat made...basically none...)..so what do you suggest?

winoman what i meant was ,a small group of people cannot takeon a large country unless u have strong freinds and to make freinds u need to make a broader approach,using different cards on different people but keeping the same end result in mind.
regarding ararat well i donno ,maybe a bad marketing strategy .

[winoman]

Anup/kid-

Don't get the wrong idea. I have personally campained hard for Genocide recognition/understanding (with Turks, Americans, Europeans, American and European Jews (specifically those involved with Holocaust awarness/education), American Indians, etc) in various maners and forums - internet and out in the real world. And I feel very comfortable in claiming that I've likely done more in this regard (and been more effective in my own small way) then most anyone here on this forum. (OK I haven't attended many commerative rallys or signed petitions or such....but I've certainly done my part in other[IMO more effective] ways).

Like for other Armenians the Genocide is an extremely personal and hurtful thing to/for me - difficult to describe the degree it has consumed me/my thoughts and feelings throughout my life - but I think most of you understand - most of us share these feelings I know - it is a very very personal thing that comes out of our collective and individual loss. Additionally though - I've always been someone who is concerned with social justice and the various lessons of history on a broader scale - and I think that through my experience as an Armenian - and one who has studied our history somewhat and the events and history of the Genocide (and much related 19th & 20th centurey history) in great detail - I believe that I understand much concerning these events (the Genocide and similar) - the forces (and circumstances) that allowed for such - and I also think that I understand much concerning the actions and motivations of those who on one hand promote and on the other discourage recognition and understanding of such historical events (and the former are not always pushing for truth either - but sometimes for perpetuation). Not sure if I've lost you there...but anyway - I'm not unfeeling nor do I at all fail to understand and appreciate the pain and frustration (on a great many levels)...at the same time I'm a realist (and perhaps being so this also makes me a cynic..dunnoh). Optimism is fine - and I am an optimist (generally) - but blind faith - well - I just don't go there. So I advise that you please take the time - if you really care about these things - to learn more then the surface platitudes and basic story (read and learn). Try to understand (as much as you are able and that can easily be understood concerning) what really happened and why - and how this type of thing (Genocide) could happen again (and seemingly does again and again in one form or another - and [in doing so] try to become [more] human - not just Armenian - have some sympathy and connection with the tragedies/misfortunes and inequities of others). And then also try to develop an awarness for the (poweful) forces in the world who don't and will never feel as you do and understand what motivates them - how they act and why things are as they are in the world a bit. And realise that life isn't fair - and justice often is elusive.

I would never advocate abandoning efforts for Genocide recogniztion and understanding - nor do I think that Turkey and Turks as a group should be allowed to whitewash what was done and entirely escape any sort of justice. But I won't hold my breath or believe it will work out for us (in the near term - though I do think that they will eventually get their due). And I will also not just buy into approaches that have been taken to achieve recognition when I think they are flawed and doomed to failure (possibly by design). Neither will I give into hate. And I think that many/most(?) Armenians get too caught up in hating Turks and blindly pushing the Genocide agenda to see and understand the people side of it. And Turks are (fundementally) just people like you and I. Do they deserve our derision? Is it predictable how they (or anyone might respond) in an environment of accusation (that goes contrary to what they/one has been conditioned to believe?) - I don't necessarily see others acting much better/more noble under such circumstances...though certainly fewer Turks then one might hope for have really shown real gumption and stepped up on this one - still more then you might imagine...

And I posed the question asking what would you suggest (to publisise the issue and perhaps force our cause). Well I have ideas certainly...but I'm fringe...unimportant...and frankly have other things to worry about. However I will say that without a level of commitment and willingness to sacrifice - at a much greater level then I have ever seen - I really don't think we have the ability to make other folks aware and get them (governments) to act...short of that - our cause is at best a few line footnote buried in the back pages once a year at best.

And please don't question my being Armenian again. Not that it ultimatly matters nor do I really care what you or others here think - but those who make statements of this sort are just raising a flag to their ignorance. I'd like to think well of you too.