Is There Life Elsewhere in the Universe? Is There a God?

[rabinovich]

No - I think things are really getting crazy - with conservative (and crazy/nasty) attitudes - potential limits on personal freedoms and regarding conformity.

For a while now I've noticed that our traditionally accepted "decades" are in fact the wrong unit of measure. I do see a 10 year grouped pattern in human events - but for the longest time now - going back - I would argue that paradigm shifts have occured on the fives. Thus culturally I think we are entering a new (and potentially frightening) era - the 2005-2014 era...as 1995-2004, 1985-1994, 1975-1984, 1965-1974, 1955-1964, 1945-1954, 1935-1944...and so on and so forth could be considered as blocks of similar time - culturally - just look at popular music over time - to me (a student of such) it follows the pattern...and the World Wars, civil rights movement and such - all seem to fall within these divisional eras of paradigm shift. Sure it ain't scientific perhaps - but its what I've obsered. SO I think we are on the cusp here - and yeah - I think its getting worse. Its not just Nov 4 2004 - a day which shall live in infamy - its more then this....

Very interesting...
Please tell me what was Nov 4 2004, don't make me look it up now

[rabinovich]

No - I think things are really getting crazy - with conservative (and crazy/nasty) attitudes - potential limits on personal freedoms and regarding conformity.

Well I don't think the human masses have ever gone far from Stone Age belief system and attitudes - in any society. It's very rare individuals who are responsible for progress of thoughts and ideas, the majority always remains inert to such stuff. Again, only an observation (possibly a little too pessimistic, but still valid)...

[winoman]

Well I don't think the human masses have ever gone far from Stone Age belief system and attitudes - in any society. It's very rare individuals who are responsible for progress of thoughts and ideas, the majority always remains inert to such stuff. Again, only an observation (possibly a little too pessimistic, but still valid)...

Perhaps true...still - there are shifting currents and the one we are in is dark and cold...

I was refering to election day....Nov 4...

I'm bad to the bone.

And ArmoBarbi - aparently you are!

[rabinovich]

I was refering to election day....Nov 4...

Oh yes have you seen those "we are sorry" sites that appeared after the elections?

Personally I think this whole election thing was a show, as always really. They make people feel like they decide something. In reality, TV can make people elect any particular candidate - be it even a rhino. BTW, I heard a real rhino (as seen in zoos) was elected once in Brazil, as well as apes and other zoological candidates

[winoman]

Not familiar with the we are sorry sites or such. And I just think its difficult to overestimate the intelligence of the American people. Whats funny is that most folks who voted for Bush are ones who will clearly feel the negative effects of his policies. And here I am - one who benefits quite a bit (tax cuts save me thousands...) (OK short term and very specific benefit - just maybe I have a longer term perspective eh?) - and I think that we are clearly on the wrong course...oh well - the irony of it all. Both elections were the Democrats to loose IMO (and of course media had a role - but its people - and political people who manage the media...etc)....but how does this have anythign to do with Life elsewhere in the Universe and weather Mt Olympus is/was ever real or just made up - etc?

[rabinovich]

Yes agreed - we are entering some very scary times...

Here's your quote - the ultimate source of all the recent flood

[rabinovich]

but how does this have anythign to do with Life elsewhere in the Universe and weather Mt Olympus is/was ever real or just made up - etc?

Life elsewhere in Universe - define "life" please. If you define it as some structures that show enough complexity - then definitely yes, maybe in forms completely unimaginable to us. There's some grey area as to what consider life and what not. Even some computer simulations are quite similar to real primitive organisms from behavioristic perspective, so from some point of view either both must be considered life or both shouldn't.

Does God exist - as much as Invisible Pink Unicorn does. They are husband and wife.

[rabinovich]

Not familiar with the we are sorry sites or such. And I just think its difficult to overestimate the intelligence of the American people. Whats funny is that most folks who voted for Bush are ones who will clearly feel the negative effects of his policies. And here I am - one who benefits quite a bit (tax cuts save me thousands...) (OK short term and very specific benefit - just maybe I have a longer term perspective eh?) - and I think that we are clearly on the wrong course...oh well - the irony of it all. Both elections were the Democrats to loose IMO (and of course media had a role - but its people - and political people who manage the media...etc)....but how does this have anythign to do with Life elsewhere in the Universe and weather Mt Olympus is/was ever real or just made up - etc?

So once I have answered those silly questions about Life and God, let's get back to American troubles

You know from what you said I remembered this Armenian radio joke of soviet times:
Q: What will the results be of the next elections?
A: Nobody can tell. Yesterday somebody stole the exact results of the next elections from the office of the Central Committee of the USSR.



So you're saying Media had a role, and I'm saying that Media had the most important role, that's pretty much all our disagreement if I understand you correctly. Anyway, if not media, there would be other ways to control people's opinion. This kind of trickery is better seen in Eastern Europe and post-Soviet countries, where politicians are less hypocritical and more explicitly demonstrate their filthy methods Or maybe they are less scared of public, who knows...

And back to ET life subject, here's another good one:
Q: Is there life on other planets?
A: On other planets there is also no life.

[winoman]

OK then - life as we do not know it... yeah - all of the above...

funny jokes

Media doe snot exist independently - doe snot control/report etc independently. Outright falsity and fraud would be discovered (as it is not uniform either) - thus media has an intermediate role - and certainly has much power to influence and to direct - but in itself it is not the do all and end all - stories are written about actual people, entities and events - thus not all is fiction and the maleability is only by degree not in toto....

[Anonymouse]

I don't think its possible for science to disprove Santa Clause either. Luckily for him though - belief in him does not preclude belief in other dieties - so all religions can't be right can they? No they can't. And it seems simple enough to see that more are incorect then correct - obvious it seems....so instead of casting ones lot (and all the belief. observations, restrictions and other baggage that it entails) - when in fact it is much more likely then not untrue (I mean how do we assign a probability of one particualr religious belief having more chance of being true then any other eh?) - so better to just save yourself the hassle (and be less the fool) and choose to remain utterly skeptical - disbelieving as it were - or at least accepting that any proposition concerning diety and such (lacking proof) is equally as valid (or absurd) as any other (particularly when each and every one has been invented by man and man seems to have a track record of inadequacy and (at least) incompleteness concerning his/her ideas and I'll easily and very confidently cast my lot in the belief against category - besides so are all of you - belief against all the other beliefs besides ones own - so lets just accept that we are all wrong eh?

The issue here is not particular religious beliefs or who believes who is right, that argument was addressed by C.S. Lewis, however, not the point here. The issue here is that it all comes down to belief. The issue is not which God is correct, but rather the notion of a God or diety. You are confusing two things again, the limitations of science and physical world, with something that cannot be negated because it is not part of this physical world (example being which God cannot be proven or disproven by using methods used to prove and disprove things in the physical world).

You state "lacking proof" but forget that this is a criteria for the physical world. Evidence by its very nature is something physical and part of science. Thus one cannot use this as a rubric to negate God or something that does not necessarily yield to evidence, which is physical in nature. Science cannot explain things that are beyond the physical realm of the senses because the senses are limited. A blind man employing the scientific method of a rock will only get a limited understanding of that rock, as opposed to someone who has all his senses studying the same rock employing the same scientific method. The root of science is knowledge based on the scientific method. In order to employ the scientific method one must make use of the senses in order to have knowledge of this world. Science therefore is only confined to the matrix of the world we know as the 3rd dimension. Science has not explained all phenomena (i.e. God, visions, paranormal, etc.) nor is it correct to assert that in the future science will explain things that it cannot explain now because there are phenomenon we cannot know or ever explain. Therefore science cannot explain all things. Beliefs or phenomena that are associated with not being explained by science therefore are not negated because they do not meet scientific criteria. The idea that a belief is absurd because it cannot be validated by science is itself an assumption on the range of absurdity, and we don't call that science, it's called scientism.