Is There Life Elsewhere in the Universe? Is There a God?

[Siamanto]

Siggie,
I completely I agree with your following statement:

People lets remember to choose our words in a way that will effectively communicate the point and minimize insulting other people.

But, I don't think that the following is a good example

For example-- An alternative to "Do you even have the slightest idea what an axiom is?!" would be... "My understanding of what an axiom is is..."

I sincerely - and with no negative connotations - meant that he/she has no understanding of what an axiom is. His/Her post obviously indicates it: it simply contradicts the definition of an axiom. Widely - and "universally" - accepted definitions are not opinions: only definitions.

Regards,
Siamanto.

winoman,
I'll reply to your post later, have no time now!

[ArmoBarbi]

If you are not insecure then you would understand that to not believe is a form of belief, not throw a fit instead my tea drinking non believer.

Understanding is based on (in)security now? You make such absurd connections for the sake of having the last word sometimes I love it.

I did not throw a fit in any post or any combination there of. I simply like to have the last word - as do you my chai latte drinking believer.

[Anonymouse]

Understanding is based on (in)security now? You make such absurd connections for the sake of having the last word sometimes I love it.

I did not throw a fit in any post or any combination there of. I simply like to have the last word - as do you my chai latte drinking believer.

See? Even you use a laffing smiley. If I had been you in this situation I would have whined saying "Waaah you are using a laffing smiley to degrade us waaaaah ".

As far as understanding, in this instance is based on insecurity, for if you understood what I was saying - namely that to not believe is itself a belief - you wouldn't need to respond with insecurities with excuses such as "I want to have the last word" or refer to my smiley use as "degrading us". In any event, you have not challenged the proposition that God can or cannot be proven logically, thus indirectly admitting that you hold a belief regarding the non-existence of God or Gods.

[ArmoBarbi]

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah

I agree that the existance of a diety cannot be proven or disproven, I was under the impression that I had made this clear earlier in the thread. This has NOTHING to do with my more recent comments as they are responses to your more recent posts. I have no need to excuse any of my opinions or BELIEFS.

[Anonymouse]

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah

How cute, she is annoyed.

I agree that the existance of a diety cannot be proven or disproven, I was under the impression that I had made this clear earlier in the thread. This has NOTHING to do with my more recent comments as they are responses to your more recent posts. I have no need to excuse any of my opinions or BELIEFS.

Precisely! You said BELEFS. That you do not believe in God is a belief. As God hasn't been proven scientifically, he hasn't been disproven either. Either way it's a faith supposition.

[ArmoBarbi]

I did not say it wasn't a belief. I said that it doesn't constitute Atheism being a religion. I suppose we can explore and argue the concepts of belief, religion, and faith at this point. It seems to be the cause of the dissagreement.

To hold a belief is not the same as acting on faith and does not constitute subscribing to a religion. I hope you finally understand where I stand. Now we can discuss it.

You like playing with the dictionary. Give us a nice definition of each (especially faith).

[Anonymouse]

I did not say it wasn't a belief. I said that it doesn't constitute Atheism being a religion. I suppose we can explore and argue the concepts of belief, religion, and faith at this point. It seems to be the cause of the dissagreement.

To hold a belief is not the same as acting on faith and does not constitute subscribing to a religion. I hope you finally understand where I stand. Now we can discuss it.

You like playing with the dictionary. Give us a nice definition of each (especially faith).

To hold a belief is exactly acting on faith, for what else is it to hold a belief? Now pay attention young lady.

Main Entry: 1faith
Pronunciation: 'fAth
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural faiths /'fAths, sometimes 'fA[th]z/
Etymology: Middle English feith, from Old French feid, foi, from Latin fides; akin to Latin fidere to trust -- more at BIDE
1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : LOYALTY b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs

Main Entry: re·li·gion
Pronunciation: ri-'li-j&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back -- more at RELY
1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : CONSCIENTIOUSNESS
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

[winoman]

Yes - I do have a great deal of "faith" in the truth of the claim of no god/gods as we humans have ever defined/believed in such. And in this case "faith" means "strong conviction" - I equally have faith that Santa Clause does not live at the North Pole with buches of elves making toys (hope I haven't burst your bubble on that "belief" mousey)....I also have great "faith" (even "belief") that when I turn the key to my car it will start. Of course I base this on certain observations and experience - not on a conviction based on intangible nothings - or just because the manual said so (it was likely printed in Tiawan for craps sake - can I really trust [have faith in...] that?) - etc etc - but because I can percieve the results of having done so before. Much like basing non-belief on logical observation and conclusions - specifically concerning biblical errancy, and generally considering the human centric (lacking facts or ability) perspective of diety belief that again has no basis for any conception of truth - its just a wild (and by definition - IMO) wrong guess...likewise I would not have "faith" or "belief" that if I smashed a jelly dounut on my dashboard that my car would fly into the air. I don't feel the need - nor would I think it is an accurate description to characterize either "belief" (turn key = car starts; smash jelly donut onto dash = no effect on ability of car to fly) as a religion or anythign to do with such. Likewise - my not believeing in various outrageous and lacking connection to physical reality propositions that speculate supreme beings or dieties etc cannot be characterized as religion (I mean who to I tithe too? Why would I sacrifice a lamb [or your firstborn etc] to such? If I burn inscence its because I like the smell [or for its aphrodesiac qualities ] - so what is my religion - the religon of practicallity? How is this the same as some other atheist who has a "belief" that inscense rots teeth - or whatever....????) Religion is something that I feel is unworthy to waste my time over (except as to continually have to explain it to those who lack understanding and seem to be of the opinion that folks can't be without one...well sorry - some of us our truly free! ) So - once again - don't waste our time with futile and irrelevant exercises in semantics.

[Anonymouse]

Yes - I do have a great deal of "faith" in the truth of the claim of no god/gods as we humans have ever defined/believed in such. And in this case "faith" means "strong conviction" - I equally have faith that Santa Clause does not live at the North Pole with buches of elves making toys (hope I haven't burst your bubble on that "belief" mousey)....I also have great "faith" (even "belief") that when I turn the key to my car it will start. Of course I base this on certain observations and experience - not on a conviction based on intangible nothings - or just because the manual said so (it was likely printed in Tiawan for craps sake - can I really trust [have faith in...] that?) - etc etc - but because I can percieve the results of having done so before. Much like basing non-belief on logical observation and conclusions - specifically concerning biblical errancy, and generally considering the human centric (lacking facts or ability) perspective of diety belief that again has no basis for any conception of truth - its just a wild (and by definition - IMO) wrong guess...likewise I would not have "faith" or "belief" that if I smashed a jelly dounut on my dashboard that my car would fly into the air. I don't feel the need - nor would I think it is an accurate description to characterize either "belief" (turn key = car starts; smash jelly donut onto dash = no effect on ability of car to fly) as a religion or anythign to do with such. Likewise - my not believeing in various outrageous and lacking connection to physical reality propositions that speculate supreme beings or dieties etc cannot be characterized as religion (I mean who to I tithe too? Why would I sacrifice a lamb [or your firstborn etc] to such? If I burn inscence its because I like the smell [or for its aphrodesiac qualities ] - so what is my religion - the religon of practicallity? How is this the same as some other atheist who has a "belief" that inscense rots teeth - or whatever....????) Religion is something that I feel is unworthy to waste my time over (except as to continually have to explain it to those who lack understanding and seem to be of the opinion that folks can't be without one...well sorry - some of us our truly free! ) So - once again - don't waste our time with futile and irrelevant exercises in semantics.

So let's see what we can muster from that post of yours.

1)Your lack of belief is itself a belief
2)Even though you claim otherwise, according to the definition, whether you like it or not, your position can be identified as a religion, the "religion of practicality" as you call it.

[winoman]

So let's see what we can muster from that post of yours.

1)Your lack of belief is itself a belief
2)Even though you claim otherwise, according to the definition, whether you like it or not, your position can be identified as a religion, the "religion of practicality" as you call it.

Yes I bow down to the ritual of everyday chores, I worship at the alter of paying bills and eating 3 meals a day. I'm so pious etc