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Evolution is (essentially) fact - so get over it already

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  • #41
    You are most wrong to state that there is no evidence for evolution

    Stating such clearly indicates your bias and ignorance. Face it Rat - you are just Medevial - you willing choose ignorance over knowledge - and you wallow in this -- how sad/pityful - for someone who proports to be intelligent. You reject Science and the process of Scientific discovery as the primary basis for attaining knowledge. You are a primitive...a mere rodent it seems...unevolved as it were.

    And again (repost) - here is a clear summation of the body of evidence which strongly suggests (proves) the basic truth of Evolution (common descent). Evolution is good science and science is the best we have to go on to explain (our) reality.

    This article directly addresses the scientific evidences in favor of macroevolutionary theory and common descent. It is specifically intended for those who are scientifically minded but, for one reason or another, have come to believe that macroevolutionary theory explains little, makes few or no testable predictions, or is unfalsifiable.


    The Scientific Case for Common Descent

    Copyright © 1999-2004 by Douglas Theobald, Ph.D.

    Introduction

    Evolution, the overarching concept that unifies the biological sciences, in fact embraces a plurality of theories and hypotheses. In evolutionary debates one is apt to hear evolution roughly parceled between the terms "microevolution" and "macroevolution". Microevolution, or change beneath the species level, may be thought of as relatively small scale change in the functional and genetic constituencies of populations of organisms. That this occurs and has been observed is generally undisputed by critics of evolution. What is vigorously challenged, however, is macroevolution. Macroevolution is evolution on the "grand scale" resulting in the origin of higher taxa. In evolutionary theory it thus entails common ancestry, descent with modification, the genealogical relatedness of all life, transformation of species, and large scale functional and structural changes of populations through time, all above the species level (Freeman and Herron 2004; Futuyma 1998; Ridley 1993).

    Common descent is a general descriptive theory that concerns the genetic origins of living organisms (though not the ultimate origin of life). The theory specifically postulates that all of the earth's known biota are genealogically related, much in the same way that siblings or cousins are related to one another. Thus, macroevolutionary history and processes necessarily entail the transformation of one species into another and, consequently, the origin of higher taxa. Because it is so well supported scientifically, common descent is often called the "fact of evolution" by biologists. For these reasons, proponents of special creation are especially hostile to the macroevolutionary foundation of the biological sciences.

    This article directly addresses the scientific evidence in favor of common descent and macroevolution. This article is specifically intended for those who are scientifically minded but, for one reason or another, have come to believe that macroevolutionary theory explains little, makes few or no testable predictions, is unfalsifiable, or has not been scientifically demonstrated.

    (see specific links for eveidence that is present...)

    Conclusion:

    Regarding the evidence for Evolution:

    ...the evidence and the conclusion are independent of any specific gradualistic explanatory mechanisms for the origin and evolution of macroevolutionary adaptations. This is why scientists call universal common descent the "fact of evolution". As explained in the introduction, none of the predictions directly address how macroevolution has occurred; nevertheless, the validity of the macroevolutionary conclusion does not depend on whether Darwinism, Lamarckism (i.e. inheritance of acquired characaters), or something else is the true mechanism of adaptive evolutionary change. The macroevolutionary conclusion stands, regardless.

    This point has an interesting parallel in physics. Newton's theory of universal gravitation describes a phenomenon of matter, just as macroevolution describes a phenomenon of life. The theory of universal gravitation is also independent of the specific explanatory mechanism for gravity, and in fact Newton never gave a mechanism for gravity. Why does the force between two masses follow the inverse square law and not another law (perhaps an inverse cube law)? It took nearly 300 years before any plausible mechanisms for gravity were proposed (by quantum field theorists). None of these proposed mechanisms currently have any experimental support. Additionally, theories of gravity are strictly dependent upon the concept of mass, and there currently is no empirically supported mechanism for giving mass to matter. Charles Darwin is considered such a great scientific mind because, unlike Newton and Einstein who proposed only descriptive theories, Darwin proposed both a descriptive theory and a plausible mechanism. That mechanism is, of course, heritable variation with natural selection.
    Last edited by winoman; 03-03-2005, 11:42 AM. Reason: I added the intro part to better put the conclusion into context

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    • #42
      Remember there is a difference between micro and macro evolution. One is within species variation. The other is simply pompous claims.
      Achkerov kute.

      Comment


      • #43
        Originally posted by Anonymouse
        Remember there is a difference between micro and macro evolution. One is within species variation. The other is simply pompous claims.
        see my edit above

        and no its not - not at all - you ignorant fool....

        Comment


        • #44
          more (so very much more - only the tip of the iceberg)

          Science is a self-correcting system that provides humans with powerful descriptions that allow us to understand and predict how the natural world works.

          excerpts:

          Evolution is supported by evidence. There are several thousand peer-reviewed scientific journals where the evidence is presented in article after article. Natural history museums house large collections of fossils that document the history of life. Geologists and astronomers have a massive amount of observational evidence of the long-term change in physical systems: stars, galaxies, planets, interstellar dust, asteroids, etc. Biologists observe and document the patterns of the evolution of life: for example, the fossil record, DNA, and the observation of evolution in action such as the adaptive evolution of antibiotic-resistant strains of bacteria that now pose a serious threat to human health. Selective breeding in agriculture generated our crops and domestic animals over thousands of years; agriculture is evolution in action.

          Dismissing evolution as "only a theory" is, at the simplest level, a misunderstanding of the meaning of "theory" in science.

          Science is a way of knowing, but not the only way of knowing. There are things that science does not address. For example, music, art, emotion, and religious beliefs are all outside the domain of what science can address. I find it unfortunate that the controversy over the theory of evolution continues as science offers all humans a way to know about the natural world and how it works

          Comment


          • #45
            Rat Science

            Universe is a hoax: Stars don't exist

            Mar 2, 11:51 pm

            Newsgroups: talk.origins
            From: [email protected] (Intensity) - Find messages by this author
            Date: 2 Mar 2005 23:51:27 -0800
            Local: Wed, Mar 2 2005 11:51 pm
            Subject: Universe is a hoax: Stars don't exist
            Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse

            Greetings all!


            When I look at our world today I can simply not believe the extent of
            the spread of false knowledge. I am here to open your eyes, if you're
            willing to see.


            Evolution is fake of course. But I'll discuss that later. First, our
            view of the universe.


            You probably think that we are on a sphere, that another sphere -
            called 'moon' - is spinning around us and that we in turn are going
            around another one named 'sun'. Furthermore, the entire universe
            consists of stars, clusters of stars, clusters of clusters etc. There
            are also 'black holes' and other weird things.


            I must say that it is a great joke. The one to first think this up had
            an incredibly sense of humour.
            Think about it: Some huge piece of rock is spinning around the earth
            all the time...Hello! It would fall right on us if there was a piece
            of rock up there.


            Now there's more plain common sense to it:


            The teachers and books tell us that stars, like our sun, are on fire.
            They also tell us however that there is no oxygen in the universe, but
            H and He! How can anything burn without oxygen? Duh! Just light a
            candle and put a glas over it. Once the oxygen is gone, the flame
            stops burning! Then why would our sun burn? There is no oxygen
            remember!


            Besides, we all know the moon landing was fake
            (http://www.apfn.org/apfn/moon.htm)


            Just think about it. Our common view of the universe is totally
            absurd. If the Earth would be a sphere we'd fall of it! If a piece of
            rock was above us it would fall right on us! If stars are burning,
            then they múst have oxygen thus can't be in our view of a vacuum
            universe!

            Comment


            • #46
              Originally posted by Anonymouse
              The fossil record doesn't show evolution. The fossil record shows one species appearing and disappearing.
              Are you familiar with David Hume's argument against causation? He argues that we never observe causation. All we can observe is that one event follows another - temporal succession, exactly what see in the fossil record. As such, we have no objective reason to believe that one event ever causes another. I wonder if you buy that, because it's exactly the same argument you use to debunk the fossil record.

              Comment


              • #47
                Originally posted by loseyourname
                Are you familiar with David Hume's argument against causation? He argues that we never observe causation. All we can observe is that one event follows another - temporal succession, exactly what see in the fossil record. As such, we have no objective reason to believe that one event ever causes another. I wonder if you buy that, because it's exactly the same argument you use to debunk the fossil record.
                Well, I never familiarized myself with that part of Hume's argument, but it is interesting. I have touched on Hume's economics thought but not this particular one. Either way, it seems to make sense and I would say it would apply here if that is the brunt of the argument.
                Achkerov kute.

                Comment


                • #48
                  Originally posted by winoman
                  see my edit above

                  and no its not - not at all - you ignorant fool....
                  Poor little winoman. He is so insecure with his belief in evolution he has to compensate for it by trying to name call thinking that it elevates his position. Essentially he made a thread about it because of what I said in other threads regarding evolution being a belief. He couldn't have that. Infuriated that someone dare questions scientific dogma, and threatening the matrix of his thought he makes a thread to reinforce his beliefs about evolution being holy writ. As such it includes posting endless articles and links and name calling, not much of a discussion. And now he calls me an ignorant fool. There you have it ladies and gentleman by that phrase alone he has proven the fact of evolution.
                  Achkerov kute.

                  Comment


                  • #49
                    Rat in a trap

                    Yes Rat - squirm away all you want but the fact of the matter is you lose the argument - pure and simple. But I will say that you are right about something here (at least in part). I began this thread because of your recent statement in another thread disparaging evolution. Your ussual crap. And I felt the record needed to be set straight - both on evolution and your ignorance. And its long overdue that your put in your place (down in the sewer as it were...). And I think I have aptly demonstrated both hypothisis - that Evolution is considered by scientists as good science and that it is good Science - it meets all criteria for such - and that any issues with such need to be addressed within the realm of science - not because of some nebulous and unsubstantiated (purely because you wish to beleive it to not be true) critique on your part that can't stand up to anything (like most of your arguments when put to the test). Additionally I think I have exposed you quite well and I will continue to do so when I feel its worth the effort. Also I started this in a new thread as I think it warrented it and I didn't want to hijak the other thread where you initially made your outrageous claim.

                    Comment


                    • #50
                      Originally posted by winoman
                      Yes Rat - squirm away all you want but the fact of the matter is you lose the argument - pure and simple. But I will say that you are right about something here (at least in part). I began this thread because of your recent statement in another thread disparaging evolution. Your ussual crap. And I felt the record needed to be set straight - both on evolution and your ignorance. And its long overdue that your put in your place (down in the sewer as it were...). And I think I have aptly demonstrated both hypothisis - that Evolution is considered by scientists as good science and that it is good Science - it meets all criteria for such - and that any issues with such need to be addressed within the realm of science - not because of some nebulous and unsubstantiated (purely because you wish to beleive it to not be true) critique on your part that can't stand up to anything (like most of your arguments when put to the test). Additionally I think I have exposed you quite well and I will continue to do so when I feel its worth the effort. Also I started this in a new thread as I think it warrented it and I didn't want to hijak the other thread where you initially made your outrageous claim.

                      Poor little winoman, he thinks he has won the argument. It will be self-evident to the readers as far as what argument is more reasonable.

                      Let's recap on this. You claim evolution is fact, even though it is a theory. "Being good science" is not enough to redeem it from the realm of theorizing. Apparently you do not know what the word "theory" means. It is a guess, an assumption, a conjecture, a belief that can guide behavior. Theorietical science changes (i.e. from Newtonian physics to modern physics). Evolution goes beyond that and tries to create a model of descent. Doing so it relies on flimsy evidence and whatever it does rely is bent to accomodate that theory. It explains everything and explains nothing. As such it is beyond science and the scientific method because it involves making things elastic and pliable, in essence bending the scientific method to hold fast to an immutable theory. It is no different than when Darwinists fabricated the missing links in Dawin's time such as gemmules, bathybius and eozoon. It is no different than modern times when fabricated evidence such as Piltdown Man, or Nebraska Man were passed off as evidence. Because gradualism could not be substantiated with evidence, or the lack of evidence, Gould decided to get creative and came up with Punctuated Equilibria to make up for the missing links and gradualism. Al of a sudden change is drastic and sudden. How convenient for the priests of Darwinism. As far as addressing evolution in the realm of science, how else do you think I've been addressing it, or anyone else who critiques evolution for that matter. Moreover, to address it within the realm of science evolution itself must be science. Since it is pseudoscience, it matters not how to address it, as the lack of evidence speaks for itself. But for evolutionists, lack of evidence is evidence itself. Irreproducibility is reproducibility. Being untestable is testable. That which was never observed is observed. We reach a strange paradigm in which things mean other than what they are. That is the brunt of Darwinis.

                      Trying to show scientists and their quotes of how evolution is good science is also misleading as there are many scientists who do not believe in evolution and why were they not quoted? So here we have it. Life evolved from the primeval big bang (sheer conjecture, the existence of the bang is inferred from the theory). Evolution occurred, as distinct from change accounting for all characteristics of life (mere assertion). Natural selection being the driving force (unestablished). It is clear evolution serves the purpose of religion, namely to explain human origin and destiny. One religion was replaced with another. In doing so it remains a belief. I'm sorry Winston, apparently fundamentalism and dogma have taken hold of you.
                      Achkerov kute.

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