Theories of Love

[dusken]

Originally posted by loseyourname Then you couldn't agree with me more. I am separated being in love from the act of loving something or someone. One need not be in love in order to love.

That is all lovely poetry but it is also not explanatory in anyway and seems to hold no weight in this discussion.

It seems that you have left your original post vague enough that we have this confusion. The vagueness is apparent in your words "the act of loving". By "loving" you can me the act of showing love or the feeling of love. A person acts to show love, but the love is involuntary. It will be easier to think about it in the form of a dependency.

[dusken]

Keep in mind that I made that last post without reading edited version of your last post.

[loseyourname]

Then let me clarify further. This isn't easy.

The act of love is any act done out of love. You can completely hate someone and still act out of love toward that person. It might mean taking in a former enemy that needs your help. In the case of romantic love, which is what this forum is directed toward, after all, it is every action that you take toward a romantic interest out of love. You might have strong feelings for a person, feelings that you associate with being in love, but that does not mean everything you do will be loving, or that your feelings will always be consistent. There will be things you do that greatly hurt the person, and those actions are not done out of love. There will also be times that you have strong negative feelings for the person, but these feelings do not preclude you from acting in a loving manner, continuing to foster the growth of both individual and couple.

Love is too important to be left to the whims of human emotion.

[dusken]

Having said that, what is your question? Whether rubbing your loved one's back is voluntary or involuntary?

[loseyourname]

Originally posted by dusken Having said that, what is your question? Whether rubbing your loved one's back is voluntary or involuntary?

I don't think you're taking this very seriously. This isn't about the rubbing of backs. This is about fostering human altruism and learning to get along with one another and working together toward a common end, regardless of what direction your fickle emotions attempt to pull you in. In the case of romantic involvement, it is about making a committment to a person that you know you can have a future with; it is about doing whatever it takes to keep that future alive and to keep that person at their best. It is not about following one's heart, because one's heart will lead you only in circles. It is about keeping your cool and sure, enjoying the euphoria, but determining whether or not there is anything deeper to it. If there is, then it becomes about making the necessary effort and exercising the necessary willpower to keep the symbiosis alive and well even when feelings falter, in fact, especially when feelings falter. It is only in the hardest of times that you will find out how much you really love someone. When love is not easy, and it is not natural, will you love anyway?

[dusken]

Originally posted by loseyourname I don't think you're taking this very seriously. This isn't about the rubbing of backs. This is about fostering human altruism and learning to get along with one another and working together toward a common end, regardless of what direction your fickle emotions attempt to pull you in. In the case of romantic involvement, it is about making a committment to a person that you know you can have a future with; it is about doing whatever it takes to keep that future alive and to keep that person at their best. It is not about following one's heart, because one's heart will lead you only in circles. It is about keeping your cool and sure, enjoying the euphoria, but determining whether or not there is anything deeper to it. If there is, then it becomes about making the necessary effort and exercising the necessary willpower to keep the symbiosis alive and well even when feelings falter, in fact, especially when feelings falter. It is only in the hardest of times that you will find out how much you really love someone. When love is not easy, and it is not natural, will you love anyway?

Put those fists down because I am taking this seriously. And, yes, it is about rubbing backs. When it comes down to it "...becomes about making the necessary effort and exercising the necessary willpower to keep the symbiosis alive and well even when feelings falter..." is referring to many individual acts akin to backrubs... maybe ones that you normally would not want to give. The decisions being made require the same approach to the relationship. You said it yourself: "This is about fostering human altruism." So again, I do not understand what you are asking with regards to voluntary and involuntary action. I am sure that after this discourse, most will agree that falling in love and harboring the feeling of it are all involuntary and taking those steps to ensure that the health of the relationship is maintained are decisions made out of respect.

[dusken]

Originally posted by dusken I am sure that after this discourse, most will agree that falling in love and harboring the feeling of it are all involuntary and taking those steps to ensure that the health of the relationship is maintained are decisions made out of respect.

And if they do not agree, then it is not a discussion of love but whether free will and altruism exist in general.

[loseyourname]

All right, I'm confused now. Where did you disagree with me?

[spiral]

Originally posted by loseyourname I don't think you're taking this very seriously. This isn't about the rubbing of backs. This is about fostering human altruism and learning to get along with one another and working together toward a common end, regardless of what direction your fickle emotions attempt to pull you in. In the case of romantic involvement, it is about making a committment to a person that you know you can have a future with; it is about doing whatever it takes to keep that future alive and to keep that person at their best. It is not about following one's heart, because one's heart will lead you only in circles. It is about keeping your cool and sure, enjoying the euphoria, but determining whether or not there is anything deeper to it. If there is, then it becomes about making the necessary effort and exercising the necessary willpower to keep the symbiosis alive and well even when feelings falter, in fact, especially when feelings falter. It is only in the hardest of times that you will find out how much you really love someone. When love is not easy, and it is not natural, will you love anyway?

You mention that love is about fostering human altruism, and then you say that it’s about having will power to keep the symbiosis alive. Symbiosis is a relationship where to beings benefit off of one another- which would mean that it is a selfish relationship.

[dusken]

Originally posted by spiral You mention that love is about fostering human altruism, and then you say that it’s about having will power to keep the symbiosis alive. Symbiosis is a relationship where to beings benefit off of one another- which would mean that it is a selfish relationship.

This is actually what I was referring to when I posted: "And if they do not agree, then it is not a discussion of love but whether free will and altruism exist in general."

We can argue until death that love and even altruism are all selfish. That is completely irrelevent because it is all relative.