Dawkins says Pope is 'stupid'

[Siggie]

Re: Dawkins says Pope is 'stupid'

On emotion? Don't insult me Dre. I asked valid questions pertaining to the validity of the claims made and implied. If you don't have the answers then say that, but don't insult me by saying that I am reacting on emotion and that that somehow excuses you from having to answer me.

You cited an article from a CATHOLIC newsletter. Cite some research; something peer-reviewed preferably as media articles about research often go beyond what the original researchers reported or they just flat out misinterpret. I did read that article and it doesn't answer the questions I asked.

What remains is that nothing there suggests condoms are making it worse in Africa. They are at most, not helping.

The research they cite about advertising doesn't apply in these areas because they're not watching TV ads for condoms portraying them as "sexy."

If the problem is cultural, then they can try to change culture and to educate them about the risks of their sexual practices, but the answer is not as simple as getting rid of condoms.

The cause of the AIDS epidemic there is complicated and the solution is likely going to have to be as well.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Dawkins says Pope is 'stupid'

Oh, so now the information is deemed bias because the source is CATHOLIC. Perhaps studies funded by Church and Dwight Co. would be less bias.

[Siggie]

Re: Dawkins says Pope is 'stupid'

Are you saying people can't be biased or that Catholics aren't biased? I didn't say Catholic media can report things incorrectly, I said media. However I did indeed imply that that source has motivation to defend the Pope.

Regardless of that I answered you as if it weren't a Catholic source or media source at all. You're still not going to reply with anything substantive?

[Federate]

Re: Dawkins says Pope is 'stupid'

The motivating factor behind the Pope's comments is obviously his disdain of sex for pleasure.

However, putting that aside for now, what does the Pope really mean... does he mean condoms are encouraging more sex therefore more diseases or is he claiming that condoms actually do not protect against diseases?

[KanadaHye]

Re: Dawkins says Pope is 'stupid'

BTW, Church and Dwight Co. is the company that markets Trojan's.

So did the Pope make this statement because of the statistics that was presented to him? The problem in Africa is immensely overwhelming.

1) The Pope only said it isn't the answer. He didn't say that people shouldn't use them.

2) Condoms have been around for more then 1000 years (probably even longer). STD's haven't gone away yet, what makes you think AIDS ever will? Condoms may have some effect but they are not the entire answer.

3) Ethics need to be taught first. Handing out protection to 22 million African's who are already HIV positive and/or have AIDS just gives them the green light to spread it further by giving their partners a false sense of security.

4) Nothing is perfect but we can't deny the ethical ways either. Polygamy is the norm in some African societies. You can imagine how quick a virus can spread under those social conditions.

5) There are more probably more Catholic missionaries in Africa than any other. They are on the front lines and seeing it first hand. GO there and see for yourself then judge.

[Valerian2]

Re: Dawkins says Pope is 'stupid'

You all may have heard last week that the Pope said condoms would increase the spread of AIDS in Africa...
Dawkins responded to this by calling him either "stupid, ignorant, or dim."

CLick for Telegraph article

Yes that was stupid.

[Eddo211]

Re: Dawkins says Pope is 'stupid'

Pope Stirs AIDS Controversy With Opposition to Condoms

Catholic Church's opposition to the use of condoms to fight AIDS. His comments have drawn criticism from many health organizations, AIDS activists and even some Catholics.

Embarking on a trip to Africa, where 22 million people are suffering from HIV, the infection which causes AIDs, Pope Benedict strongly denounced the use of condoms to stop the spread of the disease. He said you cannot overcome AIDS by just distributing condoms, instead that will increase it.

He urged leaders to focus on teaching religious values such as abstinence and fidelity. He said we need to talk about God, about the fundamental Christian values that are important for a strong Christian life.
These comments have drawn criticism from AIDS/HIV activists around the world, such as Rebecca Hodes, with Treatment Action Campaign, a South Africa based HIV/AIDS advocacy group.

"Our reaction is one of anger and sadness, because we know working in Africa for over 10 years in treating and preventing HIV, from the Treatment Action Campaign's perspective, that condoms are one of the very few evidence-based means of preventing HIV," she said.
There is dissent about condom use even within the Roman Catholic Church.

"Catholic workers in developing countries do give out condoms, Catholic nuns and priests do it quietly and in fear of their jobs, and bishops have spoken out. Bishop Kevin Dowling in Rustenburg, South Africa works with the poorest of the poor in the shanty towns. He has said that using condoms is not about preventing the transmission of life, it is about preventing the transmission of death," said Jon O'Brien, president of a group called Catholics For Choice.

The Catholic Church has long held the view that sexual abstinence and marital fidelity, not condoms, are the best ways to prevent the spread of the disease.

http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-03-18-voa58.cfm

[Pedro Xaramillo]

Re: Dawkins says Pope is 'stupid'

Yep, our own archibishop here was kicked because he told people to use protected (the honourable Desmond Tutu)

[Stark Evade]

Re: Dawkins says Pope is 'stupid'

Dawkins is also stupid.

No. No, he's not.

[hipeter924]

Re: Dawkins says Pope is 'stupid'

Dawkins has a very sour view of religion. I don't agree with the way he discusses religion...it can be very cruel at times. But he does have a point...I prefered the last pope.