Drugs and Treatments in todays capitalist markets

[Haykakan]

I just waisted more time reading some long winded posts in the religions and metaphysics thread so i decided to make a thread about stuff that actually does exist and matters to all.
In the present day capitalistic marketplace finding a cure for any ailment is strongly discouraged. Finding long term treatments that never fix the problem but temporarily control the syptoms are encouraged. I will use my present predicament as an example. As our bodies age we develope health problems which did not exist before. In my 30s i developed asthma and it became progressively worst. (I use asthma as a example but your can use whatever chronic condition you like in its place.) Modern medicine has a variety of puffers, inhalers... to offer us asthmatics but absolutely nothing that offers a cure. When you look around this fact is true for almost all health problems - lots of treatments but no cure. This scenario is not an accident, it is the direct result of medicine and prarmacuticals being privatized. As private enterprizes the pharmacuitical campanies have no desire to make a drug which if u take once or a couple of times will cure your ailment since they can only sell u one or two pilles and will no longer get any more revanue after that from that patient since now your cured. The way to do things under privatized medicine is to invent a treatment which will somewhat control the syptoms of you ailment but never actually cure it. Hell it would really rock for them if their medicine actually prevented your body from curing it to so they can sell you their treatment till you die (it would not surprise me in the least if this is already happening). Under the capitalist system there is no "search for a cure" but rather a search for temporary syptom alleviation which supplies pharmacuitical companies with lifetime customers who are dependent on their drugs to function. Now before you go and say "well sure it is easier to come up with a treatment then a cure and thats why things are the way they are.." i want you to consider the fact that hardly any private company is looking for a cure to any disease but hordes of them are looking to find treatments for its symptoms. Under such conditions cures will naturally hardly ever be found. This scenario is the natural result of medicine being privatized in a capitalistic system and one of the reasons why i am constantly bashing the capitalist system. If you are going to put the nations health in the hands of investors you will never have a healthy nation because the investors only make money if you are sick. Hell under the present rules and laws even if u come up with a cure on your own they will put you into a subcatagory called holistic medicine which guerantees no insurance will pay for this cure. Since many forum members here are young i do not expect everyone to appreciate the predicament us chronic disease sufferers are in but keep in mind you too will get old and will develope similar problems so this relates to everyone. By making this thread i hope to have you all share your thoughts and experiences regarding this matter.

[Eddo211]

Re: Drugs and Treatments in todays capitalist markets

This is very true.....in fact they give you more drugs (cabinet full) to take in order to help you overcome the side effects of the main drug that is perscribed for your condition that in all reality doesn't really help sometimes or even cure anything but make you life long dependant.
I know of many cases (in my family) where surgery was not necessery but it was performed anyway (they make you sign a paper stating that you cannot hold them responsible right before the operation).
Medical malpractice is the hardest to prove

[Siggie]

Re: Drugs and Treatments in todays capitalist markets

I just waisted more time reading some long winded posts in the religions and metaphysics thread so i decided to make a thread about stuff that actually does exist and matters to all.
In the present day capitalistic marketplace finding a cure for any ailment is strongly discouraged. Finding long term treatments that never fix the problem but temporarily control the syptoms are encouraged. I will use my present predicament as an example. As our bodies age we develope health problems which did not exist before. In my 30s i developed asthma and it became progressively worst. (I use asthma as a example but your can use whatever chronic condition you like in its place.) Modern medicine has a variety of puffers, inhalers... to offer us asthmatics but absolutely nothing that offers a cure. When you look around this fact is true for almost all health problems - lots of treatments but no cure. This scenario is not an accident, it is the direct result of medicine and prarmacuticals being privatized. As private enterprizes the pharmacuitical campanies have no desire to make a drug which if u take once or a couple of times will cure your ailment since they can only sell u one or two pilles and will no longer get any more revanue after that from that patient since now your cured. The way to do things under privatized medicine is to invent a treatment which will somewhat control the syptoms of you ailment but never actually cure it. Hell it would really rock for them if their medicine actually prevented your body from curing it to so they can sell you their treatment till you die (it would not surprise me in the least if this is already happening). Under the capitalist system there is no "search for a cure" but rather a search for temporary syptom alleviation which supplies pharmacuitical companies with lifetime customers who are dependent on their drugs to function. Now before you go and say "well sure it is easier to come up with a treatment then a cure and thats why things are the way they are.." i want you to consider the fact that hardly any private company is looking for a cure to any disease but hordes of them are looking to find treatments for its symptoms. Under such conditions cures will naturally hardly ever be found. This scenario is the natural result of medicine being privatized in a capitalistic system and one of the reasons why i am constantly bashing the capitalist system. If you are going to put the nations health in the hands of investors you will never have a healthy nation because the investors only make money if you are sick. Hell under the present rules and laws even if u come up with a cure on your own they will put you into a subcatagory called holistic medicine which guerantees no insurance will pay for this cure. Since many forum members here are young i do not expect everyone to appreciate the predicament us chronic disease sufferers are in but keep in mind you too will get old and will develope similar problems so this relates to everyone. By making this thread i hope to have you all share your thoughts and experiences regarding this matter.

A pretty cynical view for an advocate of rationality.

Consider this... they have more incentive to come up with a preventative medication because then everyone would take it and that would of course be always be a larger population than those who will be afflicted.

The reality is that we're still learning a lot in medicine. In 50 years, we'll look back and wonder "what the hell were we thinking?!", just as we do now when we look back at the lobotomies of the 50s and the awarding of the Nobel prize to Moniz for inventing the procedure.
We should expect realistic improvement as we strive for a more complete understanding of the body, the environment, the universe, etc

[Haykakan]

Re: Drugs and Treatments in todays capitalist markets

"We should expect realistic improvement as we strive for a more complete understanding of the body, the environment, the universe, etc "

The problem is that all the striving is funded by investment capitol thus the nature of the research is directed by investors. Investors are not going to "Strive" for what is good for humanity, they only strive for what is good for their pocketbooks. When deciding what can be a realistic improvement one should examine the giant leaps we have seen in technology and how they so miserably fail to translate into medical advances anywhere near the same level or even 100 times less then that level. Investors will make a phone that you can surf the net with and enjoy the latest free porn anywhere at anytime but they will not make a cure for any disease because it is not as profitable as selling a tiney piece of plastic for hundreds of dollars then charging insane service fees... Now i have been called an optimist before and this is the first time anyone called me cynical but i will deny both as an accurate description of myself and replace them with the word realist for reality has always been what i try to expose in the sea of spinns, half truths and collored commentaries we find ourselves in today.
"they have more incentive to come up with a preventative medication because then everyone would take it and that would of course be always be a larger population than those who will be afflicted"
This is not true. The entire population will be effected by ailments thus the pharamas profit from everyone already plus they make way more profits by selling you a drug which you know you cant do without on a daily bases rather then trying to convince people to take preventative measures which are way less profitable.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Drugs and Treatments in todays capitalist markets

A pretty cynical view for an advocate of rationality.

Consider this... they have more incentive to come up with a preventative medication because then everyone would take it and that would of course be always be a larger population than those who will be afflicted.

The reality is that we're still learning a lot in medicine. In 50 years, we'll look back and wonder "what the hell were we thinking?!", just as we do now when we look back at the lobotomies of the 50s and the awarding of the Nobel prize to Moniz for inventing the procedure.
We should expect realistic improvement as we strive for a more complete understanding of the body, the environment, the universe, etc

The flaw in your logic is that Capitalism is designed to take money from those who have money. Underneath the system lies a social safety net which takes care of those who fall out of the middle class. So a cure would mean an end to a lifetime of treatment and they would have to be administered to those that have nothing to give in return. A lot of doctors who practice in not so well to do areas of cities make their money from the welfare recipients who constantly come in for treatments for their ailments. This money is paid for by the middle class. A cure would sort of put a wrench in the system so to speak. That's not to say that a cure exists and it's being kept from the public (which is a possibility) but that there is no motivation to find a cure.

In response to lobotomies, the government found that television was just as effective in taming and calming the masses... therefore there was no need to remove the frontal lobe

[myragnarok]

Re: Drugs and Treatments in todays capitalist markets

There is also incentive to get $$$ for stuff like cure for cancer, and say we still haven't found the cure for it when they might have... you get the point

[Haykakan]

Re: Drugs and Treatments in todays capitalist markets

There is also incentive to get $$$ for stuff like cure for cancer, and say we still haven't found the cure for it when they might have... you get the point

Hell i didnt even think about that one but you are right and i bet it already happened to. I know a nice lady who is dying from leukimia now and all they have to offer her is one chemo treatment after another. How can it be that with the rate of advancement in science and technology that they havent invented better treatment for this disease in over 60 some years. This is one xxxxed up world we live in i tell ya. Have you seen the stuff the republicans want to get rid of in next years budget? Well lets just say if you get sick and your not a millionair i hope you can find a cure in Israel in the form of a patriot missle cause that is where our money will be.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Drugs and Treatments in todays capitalist markets

I know this sounds cruel but in reality, the "good people" who run marathons and fund raisers for "cure for cancer" are just giving money to an organization that's created to steal money legally. Why don't they petition for "causes of cancer" awareness and "prevention"?. I hate when they petition me at work asking for money because their kid is doing this or doing that. Then it makes you feel guilty for not donating but you can't explain to them why you don't want to donate so you have to make some other excuse. People shouldn't be conditioned to beg for money. The school systems are the worse for this practice.

[myragnarok]

Re: Drugs and Treatments in todays capitalist markets

Then there is the insurance companies that don't give you the money in the states when you really need it, they always have some sort of excuse. In Canada on the other hand it's mostly free but until the treatment reaches you, or it's your turn in the lineup you might be gone. Of course depending on the disease and the situation. At least the rich don't have an edge , same lineup for everyone, at least I hope so.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Drugs and Treatments in todays capitalist markets

Yeah, but the sales tax here is now 13% so the government gets money from that plus now they deduct 300, 600, 900 , 1200 bucks a year from your income depending on which tax bracket you fall into. Basically they tax everyone so much that it's a more even playing field. It's still better than the U.S. in terms of health care costs. Not sure if it's the same in all of the states, but if you work for a company in Michigan., not only do they deduct for healthcare but the car insurance companies even grab more if your health insurance doesn't cover accidents due to auto collisions. I don't blame people for insurance fraud but all insurance companies do is pass the buck onto their customers so suing insurance companies just raises everybody's premiums. Corporate mafia.