Armenian Slang & Idioms

[Che_Ka]

I know that Armenians from different parts of the world use different dialects. But along with those dialects come idioms and slang. I've always been interested with this stuff (or, really - anything to do with Armenian language). So, tell me aaaallll about the words or sayings that you guys use in Armenian speech (and also their definitions ;) )

I'll start. :D

Ka - This is such a Beirutsi/Halebtsi thing! It's so versatile.

Ka, ha! -- Someone asks, "Isgabes meg jam devets doon hasnilt aysor?" and you would reply "ka, ha!" (meaning, "yeah man, for real!!").

Ha, ka... -- This changes meaning, it becomes more subdued. It means something like "yeah, man..." almost with a "who cares" attitude. Example: "Doon yertank?" "Ha, ka, yertank."

che, ka -- I looove this one. lol Kinda like "no man..." but with a hint of bewilderment or amazement.

ka -- Alone, it's used to mean something a little less than "wow." Example: "Ka, ays jasheru toon badrastetsir?"

haydeh -- I don't know whether this is Turkish or Greek or plain slang. It means "come on" (as in "hurry up"). Example, "Haydeh, kna agranert vrtsineh." It's also often shortened to just "deh." I think the original version is "ha de" and that it might come from another language.

babam -- My personal favorite. lol It means something like "dude" but with somewhat of a negative tone. "Babam, kani ankam bidi grgnem im usadzners. Mdig ureh!" :)

Of course if you ever hung out with me, you'd hear me say sentences like "ka, haydeh babam!" Sad but true..lol

What else?

There's "dzo," but I think lots of Armenians use it. And "aman" not to mean plate, but as an expression/exclamation like "oh my..." Apparently Barsgahays don't use it, and they think we're talking about plates. lol

Then there's a bunch of sayings I use, but those incorporate foreign words. I can think of "harmetsir tsketsir" or "genam" (meaning again; it's Turkish I think).

Anyway, I love this stuff. And I was hoping we can all share some of our personal/family slang/idioms/sayings. :)

[xBaron Dants]

gor...the classic, annoying, useless yet so "useful" gor...

"yalla" is often used by Halebtsis, Beirutsis..

Hayastantsis often use the Russian "davay".

That's all I can think of for now (4 am, pardon me).

[xBaron Dants]

Then there's the ever-annoying "yaw"..

"Dzo inch gnes gor yaaaaaaaw? Asang pan glla me?"


Ooh, which made me notice the "me" at the end. What's up with that?

[Che_Ka]

Yaaaooowww, how did I forget yaow?? (you gotta put the 'o' in there! lol) oohhh, and "yalla." Yalla babam. haha, gotta love it.

You're right. "Mu" is also used a lot!! "Bid' yertank, mu?" lol it makes no sense, but it sooo does. ;) Oh, I also use it a lot after "che." Like "che mu?" (meaning, "right?")

Ohh, do you use "ham"? Like, "ham g'oozes yertal, ham al hos g'oozes mnal." Sounds kinda Turkish, maybe.

Oh don't get me started on "gor." lol I'm quite a fan of it. =X

[CatWoman]

gor...the classic, annoying, useless yet so "useful" gor...

I always wondered if "gor" was like the arevmedahay version of hayastansi's "arraaa"... lol? They both use it at the same place like "inch genis gor... araa inches anoom..."

I never heard of those ka words, but they sound funny! ka, ka ha, ha ka, che ka, ka che(ok I made this one up)... :D but I can add one with ka: kaka.... means candy right? :p babam was the only one from the list that I knew, hate that word!!!
I can't think of any, but I'm sure there is more....

[xBaron Dants]

"ka che" can actually be used.

-dghoos pjishgin kov dari.
- Dr. Basmajiane?
- Kaaa che! Dr Datevianin kov..

[xBaron Dants]

Gor is actually related to the verb.

Inch gnes? Tas gnem gor.

In fact, you can just say "Tas gnem"...how it was added still remains a mystery....to me at least.

[Emil]

What about "eya?"

[Anonymouse]

I say "Ba vooooooonts" alot, and "eeeeeeeeyaaa".

[hyebruin]

barsgahyes--at least the cultured ones---understand 'aman' and know that you don't necessarily find it in the kitchen :rolleyes:

'babam' is a persian word, have no clue what it means but it conveys 'dude' or something like that! a totally useless expression...

my grandfather used to say 'haydeh' and he was barsgahye :) i think it's another variation of 'yallah' which is also used by barsgahyes but seems to be more popular with western armenians.

yahnee (barsgahyes) yan@m, yani (hayastantsis) is just a persian word meaning "urem@n" in armenian ... for example: " yani ch@hasgatsar? kani ankam asem?"

just though of another one! with barsgahyes the past tense of 'asel' in the first person is 'asam' (i have my own theory where that 'm' came from) :p ...and if you want to STRESSSS to someone that you DIDDDDD tell them something, somtimes the following is used: "asam@d"...that @d adds more emphasis! i can demonstrate for those of you who are barsgahye deprived :laugh: :laugh: however, i haven't used it since i was a kid, so don't laff when i say it :p

[Dave]

There's also the word ''ishteh''. It comes out a lot. There are a lot of ways to use it. You can use it as ''I agree'', and there's the other way that I don't know how to define in English...

Aboush e ishteh.
(He's like so stupid.)

The word ''Hamdullah'' (Park Asdoudzo) is used a lot by some of my relatives.

-Inchbes es?
-Hamdullah, toun inchbes es?...

The words tenekeh (gatsa), mobilia (furniture), banka (bank), etc come to mind...

Did anyone mention the word ''Beeeee''. I think this comes from Turkish and it's very similar to ''kaaa''

Ge paveh beeeeee
(Stop it already)

or

Hadé beeeee :o
(Come on already!)

Don't forget about some of the swear words. :laugh:

[Che_Ka]

Oh you guys remembered so many that I forgot!! :)

hyebruin: Uh oh!! When I met my one barsgahay friend (lol) back in the 7th grade, she thought I was talking about plates when I said "aman." So that's where my knowledge comes from. lol

Yallah is actually a contraction of "ya Allah" from Arabic (which is where Persian would get it from, I assume).

Y'aneh is also Arabic, meaning "like" or "so." There are so many variations on how to pronounce this! Even within the same family - it's interesting!

That Barsgahay "@d" is quite interesting!! lol Never heard of that before. :)

Dave: Hahaha @ tanaka!!! We actually use it more for like cheap metal. Or really bad xxxlery. lol I think it's Turkish.

I've been really annoyed lately because I've noticed how sooo many of our words are Turkish! My mom claims even "pooshman" is Turkish. :( (You know, like "pooshman yegha")

Good call on "beh" and "ishteh" though -- even if they are Turkish. lol

[Che_Ka]

Oh, and what does "eya" mean?

[Hayq]

the classic, "Ara!".

-hluh estegh ari, Ara, kam bernit ktam!

[hyebruin]

a good friend of mine calls jerks "yezi ts@nund" :laugh: :laugh: i love it!!!! hahahhahahhaaaaa...we say "shaan lagod" :p

[Che_Ka]

oohhh that's kinda close to "eshoo tsak" lol

[Che_Ka]

I thought of another one.

zar -- it means something like perhaps/i guess/it seems like it. Very useful!!

- Jamu 7-in bidi sgsi hantesu?
- Zar. (I guess.)

Or it can be used to literally replace the words "terevs" or "g'erevi."

- Zar (g'erevi) aysorva tast ches sorvadz.

[xBaron Dants]

I liken "zar" more to "havanapar".

[xBaron Dants]

"pooshman" is definitely turkish. Kepeze is another one..

Tanaka is used for "titegh"...the word that many use for "gatsa" which always cracks me up is "tenjere".

[Metsamor]

Yes xoski pahi tak karam xosam u duk naxadu jokek te vorn a slang.. yete xoski spyurkahayere pereputit klnen, togh asen u irants et sagh payere taza kbatsatrvi. Uremn sents!

Jargoni mej (manavand bazari vaxt) amenakarevore kravorakan seri arat kirarumn a u jigyarov xoslu hstak mitume (orinak- "Mernem srtit!", "Mernem glannerid", "Tagavor axper", yev ayln)

Kravorakan sere active kirarutyan tak a nra hamar vor hnaravorutyun a tali konkret andznanunnerits xusapel, vorovhetev chi dzum urishi anun tale.
Orinak (axchka bazari jamanak): "Ape, xi kez chi asve vor et axchike enger uni?" kam "Inke mer kurn a u xoski mer hamar likke zapadloya vor ira momentov alik varvi!"

[sleuth]

Yes xoski pahi tak karam xosam u duk naxadu jokek te vorn a slang.. yete xoski spyurkahayere pereputit klnen, togh asen u irants et sagh payere taza kbatsatrvi. Uremn sents!

Jargoni mej (manavand bazari vaxt) amenakarevore kravorakan seri arat kirarumn a u jigyarov xoslu hstak mitume (orinak- "Mernem srtit!", "Mernem glannerid", "Tagavor axper", yev ayln)

Kravorakan sere active kirarutyan tak a nra hamar vor hnaravorutyun a tali konkret andznanunnerits xusapel, vorovhetev chi dzum urishi anun tale.
Orinak (axchka bazari jamanak): "Ape, xi kez chi asve vor et axchike enger uni?" kam "Inke mer kurn a u xoski mer hamar likke zapadloya vor ira momentov alik varvi!"


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: ZAPADLOYAAAAAAA UFFF RUSERENI MAYIRKE lacacrecir ev hayereni nuynpes .

Cарказм, или Вы действительно говорите как крестьянин?haha

[sleuth]

Yes xoski pahi tak karam xosam u duk naxadu jokek te vorn a slang.. yete xoski spyurkahayere pereputit klnen, togh asen u irants et sagh payere taza kbatsatrvi. Uremn sents!

Jargoni mej (manavand bazari vaxt) amenakarevore kravorakan seri arat kirarumn a u jigyarov xoslu hstak mitume (orinak- "Mernem srtit!", "Mernem glannerid", "Tagavor axper", yev ayln)

Kravorakan sere active kirarutyan tak a nra hamar vor hnaravorutyun a tali konkret andznanunnerits xusapel, vorovhetev chi dzum urishi anun tale.
Orinak (axchka bazari jamanak): "Ape, xi kez chi asve vor et axchike enger uni?" kam "Inke mer kurn a u xoski mer hamar likke zapadloya vor ira momentov alik varvi!"

This post made my day!!! :laugh:

[Che_Ka]

Pear: omg yes, we use "tanjara" -- although in my efforts to re-Armenianize our household, I've started using "gatsa" instead. lol (along with heratsayn (telefon), heradesil (television), hedzig (biciclet), etc. My sisters hate me. lol)

:( about pooshman. I thought the root word was "poosh" and that it was somehow conjugated to pooshman. You know how the word "sharjoom" can become "sharjman" or "hartsoom" becomes "hartsman"? I thought there was some word, like pooshoom (lol), from which pooshman came from. But I was sadly mistaken.

Kepeze is a good one. lol

[Metsamor]

This post made my day!!! :laugh:

Your day or your night? If it's your day, then I hear your voice from the Caucasus! Say hi to Brusov's statue from me!

[sleuth]

Your day of your night? If it's your day, then I hear your voice from the Caucasus! Say hi to Brusov's statue from me!


My voice is from down under world and it's not Brusov, it's MGU.( Lomonosov) Slabo?? ;)

[Metsamor]

My voice is from down under world and it's not Brusov, it's MGU.( Lomonosov) Slabo?? ;)

Dasits paxel es? Yev heto inchi profile-id mej vochinch ches grum? Kez voch en a "Kuro jan" asem, voch en a "Axper jan"... Please, show some consideration!

[CatWoman]

barsgahyes--at least the cultured ones---understand 'aman' and know that you don't necessarily find it in the kitchen :rolleyes:

'babam' is a persian word, have no clue what it means but it conveys 'dude' or something like that! a totally useless expression...

my grandfather used to say 'haydeh' and he was barsgahye :) i think it's another variation of 'yallah' which is also used by barsgahyes but seems to be more popular with western armenians.

yahnee (barsgahyes) yan@m, yani (hayastantsis) is just a persian word meaning "urem@n" in armenian ... for example: " yani ch@hasgatsar? kani ankam asem?"

just though of another one! with barsgahyes the past tense of 'asel' in the first person is 'asam' (i have my own theory where that 'm' came from) :p ...and if you want to STRESSSS to someone that you DIDDDDD tell them something, somtimes the following is used: "asam@d"...that @d adds more emphasis! i can demonstrate for those of you who are barsgahye deprived :laugh: :laugh: however, i haven't used it since i was a kid, so don't laff when i say it :p


ahahahahah... how can you put more emphasis on 'asam', without making it 'asamed', lol... true, so funny! :laugh:

'babam' is not really a persian word, well it means "my father" in persian but that's definitely not the source, yanee aslaaan gab choonen irar :laugh: (nah I don't talk like that)

One thing I think only barsgahays say is "gelookh kashel" lol, like ertam mamis gelookh kashem, like to "give her a visit"! LOL... It must sound funny for non-baskgahays... "heres oozoom mamid gelookhe kashes?" :D

[EYYBABA23]

Babam is a Persian word which means my father, however when Barskahyes use it, it doesn't mean that at all "yanee aslaaan irar gab choonen" (I talk like that sometimes)..lol...Now we usually use it with Jan at the end like "babamjan" and it's just a slang used to start a sentence (usually) when you're explaining something.
"Babamjan, hima chem uzum durs etam" And please don't confuse it with Badmjan which is eggplant!

Oh, and CatWoman...I'm so sorry for using some of your words to add to your explanation. It just made it easier for me to explain the word babam, or babamjan for that matter.

[sad_eyes]

the classic, "Ara!".

-hluh estegh ari, Ara, kam bernit ktam!


Arxchi Ara! lol, yes, the classic ara. My favorite.

[nairi]

just though of another one! with barsgahyes the past tense of 'asel' in the first person is 'asam'

It's interesting how "asam" has turned into "asim" among some parskahays who have spent too much time outside of Iran. Like "zangim" and "gnatsim". Otherwise the -am ending is popular in other verbs too: aram, taram, siram, keram.

Also classic in parskahay dialect is the verb "to be" conjugated as:

Yes am
Du as
Na/Inqn a
Menq anq
Duq aq
Nranq/Iranq an

Instead of em, es, e, enq, eq, en.

So you get: Yani du stur as arel? (You mean you bought this?)

Btw, Armenians from Esfahan and surroundings also use ka, as an exclamation often. Ka? (Really?); "ka du hur as etkan khosum?".

[CatWoman]

It's interesting how "asam" has turned into "asim" among some parskahays who have spent too much time outside of Iran. Like "zangim" and "gnatsim". Otherwise the -am ending is popular in other verbs too: aram, taram, siram, keram.

Also classic in parskahay dialect is the verb "to be" conjugated as:

Yes am
Du as
Na/Inqn a
Menq anq
Duq aq
Nranq/Iranq an

Instead of em, es, e, enq, eq, en.

So you get: Yani du stur as arel? (You mean you bought this?)

Btw, Armenians from Esfahan and surroundings also use ka, as an exclamation often. Ka? (Really?); "ka du hur as etkan khosum?".

Sorry to disappoint you hun, but not all barskahays talk like that! OMG... I mean geughasik maybe... :D . I don't know ANYONE who says "stur" or "menq anq" or "dari/beri" lolllllll....And if you personally say "stur, endoor, etc" try to CORRECT YOURSELF :)

I was watching the civic auditorium new year's eve celebration on TV, and oh wow! Those people need to learn proper Armenian... I mean I couldn't stop laughing! Such a shame...

I hope I didn't sound mean... :o

[nairi]

I invite you to visit Peria :) Some even say "minq" instead of "menq".

[hyebruin]

[QUOTE=nairi]It's interesting how "asam" has turned into "asim" among some parskahays who have spent too much time outside of Iran. Like "zangim" and "gnatsim". Otherwise the -am ending is popular in other verbs too: aram, taram, siram, keram.

hmmm it's not exactly the past tense, i believe it's the subjunctive here..with zangim (zangei) and past tense---> zangam (zangetsi), gnatsim (gnatsi)... and i dont' think it's siram :rolleyes: it's siratsim/siretsim (siretsi) :p

the whole 'm' attachment is imo a kind of a barsgahye genetic mutation brought on by living very closely with persians... :laugh: :laugh: seriously!

it's because in farsi the past tense in the first person has the 'm' attachment at the end, so for whatever reason? (convenience/habit/assimilation) armenians applied some farsi grammar to armenian??---this is just my own personal theory, but it's not so far fetched if you examine both languages :cool:

[nairi]

I guess it depends on who you listen to. I've heard both variations in similar contexts used among some of my cousins who were born and raised outside of Iran. Mostly I think they misheard something somewhere because as far as I can hear, their parents don't speak like that. Nor do they live in Armenian communities. I think my cousins in America got it from arevmtahays (they went to a Western Armenian school). My cousins here got it from ?? mishearing??

I have heard cousins say: "Gnatsim khanut u es aram". I swear. As for zangel, my American cousins and their friends don't even use that word. They use kanchel instead, and add a -am in the end: kancham.

[CatWoman]

I invite you to visit Peria :) Some even say "minq" instead of "menq".

haha! You don't have to visit Peria to find peresis! LOL, I mean nothing against them, they're actually very family oriented and nice... but when it comes to the way they talk, it's okay for the elderly to talk like that, but the young generation.... NOOO!

[EYYBABA23]

I agree. I'm a barskahye and hate it when the 10% talk like that, but I also don't like it when barskahyes get generalized as one group and then everytime the Pereztiz have to be the NMUSH!(THIS IS ONLY ABOUT THE WAY THEY TALK, SO DON'T THINK I'M BASHING YOUR PEREZINESS IF YOU ARE ONE)lol....One tenth of Barskahyes might talk like that if not less. And I agree that you can't change the way the elders talk, but the youngsters should never talk like that althought it's like impossible when the parents do talk with UNA CHUNA!

[Che_Ka]

Nairi: Interesting that your American cousins use "ganchel" (kanchel) instead of "zankel" (zangel). No doubt something else they picked up from the Arevmdahays at school.

The two words are similar to the difference between the British and American versions.

I rang = Yes zanketsi (zangetsi)
I called = Yes ganchetsi (kanchetsi)

[nairi]

Yeah, they probably just translate literally from "call". Just like "televisioni vra" (on tv).

Ey baba, most of the time I find these differences in dialects more fascinating than anything. Have you ever asked yourself why people speak different dialects? And how they became that way? Why diss those dialects and people? They're able to communicate fine. What more is a language good for?

[CatWoman]

Ey baba, most of the time I find these differences in dialects more fascinating than anything. Have you ever asked yourself why people speak different dialects? And how they became that way? Why diss those dialects and people? They're able to communicate fine. What more is a language good for?

I don't think he was dissing the people, but the way they talk. So since they can communicate fine, no need to correct themselves even though the way they communicate is wrong and illiterate, to say the least? It's like saying, why use knife, fork, and spoon when you can just eat with your hands and fingers? The whole purpose is to consume food right? hahaha

[nairi]

Who says it's wrong and illiterate? What is wrong and what is illiterate? Care to define?

And indeed, why use knife and fork when they are simply commodoties for the Victorians? We can just as easily eat with our hands. Did you know that eating rice with one hand without letting one grain fall is much more challenging than eating without elbows on a table? Just wondering..

[CatWoman]

Who says it's wrong and illiterate? What is wrong and what is illiterate? Care to define?

Sure...
Tell me, how many Armenian books have you read in which they used:
una, instead of uni
chuna, instead of chuni
dara, instead of darav
bera, instead of berav
stur, instead of aystegh
endur, instead of ayndegh
inkneresoon, inkneredoon instead of menk, dook
and the list goes on and on and on... So there, that makes it wrong and illiterate. :laugh:

And indeed, why use knife and fork when they are simply commodoties for the Victorians? We can just as easily eat with our hands. Did you know that eating rice with one hand without letting one grain fall is much more challenging than eating without elbows on a table? Just wondering..


Ummm yeah okay, keep eating with your hands cause you're not a victorian... hahaha
What kind of a reasoning is that? :confused:

[Che_Ka]

I think what Nairi is getting at is that local dialects are a part of the overall Armenian culture. They give flavor, depth, and color to the language. And it's certainly interesting to unravel the sources for the differences in local dialects.

Of course, these dialects are wrong in the sense that they are not found in official Armenian textbooks, newspapers, dictionaries, etc. We should all know how to speak 'proper' Armenian, but knowing, understanding, and appreciating the dialects is important, too. That, too, is a part of our culture.

My mom can speak proper WA -- but she can just as easily switch to the Dikranagerd dialect. I love it. I've picked some of it up. It is a way for me to connect with my roots.

I share the same interest in dialects that Nairi seems to share. :)

[EYYBABA23]

I think what Nairi is getting at is that local dialects are a part of the overall Armenian culture. They give flavor, depth, and color to the language. And it's certainly interesting to unravel the sources for the differences in local dialects.

Of course, these dialects are wrong in the sense that they are not found in official Armenian textbooks, newspapers, dictionaries, etc. We should all know how to speak 'proper' Armenian, but knowing, understanding, and appreciating the dialects is important, too. That, too, is a part of our culture.

My mom can speak proper WA -- but she can just as easily switch to the Dikranagerd dialect. I love it. I've picked some of it up. It is a way for me to connect with my roots.

I share the same interest in dialects that Nairi seems to share. :)


The whole point I'm trying to make is that, the reason they talk like that is LACK of EDUCATION. I certainly don't speak Armenian the way it's written in the books, but also when I speak Armenian, no one laughs at me nor they say Gyughatsiya.

I'm not so sure about this, but we might be confusing dialect with accent also.

[nairi]

Che ka is getting the gist. Thanks :)

Cat, have you ever read Abovian or Raffi? Among others.
When were Armenian language textbooks introduced, by who, for who and why?

[nairi]

hmmm it's not exactly the past tense, i believe it's the subjunctive here..with zangim (zangei) and past tense---> zangam (zangetsi), gnatsim (gnatsi)... and i dont' think it's siram :rolleyes: it's siratsim/siretsim (siretsi) :p

Yes uzumim kez zangim hama zhamanak chunetsam :laugh:

[CatWoman]

Cat, have you ever read Abovian or Raffi? Among others.
When were Armenian language textbooks introduced, by who, for who and why?
No, I don't think I have... but I know I've read Hovhanes Toomanian and Baruyr Sevak if that helps . How is that related to our previous discussion though? And no, I don't know the date of the first published textbook either. I mean, if you insist on una, chuna, etc. being correct, then I don't wish to argue with you. You might wanna double check with an Armenian school teacher though. :D

I certainly don't speak Armenian the way it's written in the books, but also when I speak Armenian, no one laughs at me nor they say Gyughatsiya.
I think we do, I mean we might say 'estegh' instead of 'aystegh', but that's like saying gonna instead of going to. The way we speak isn't really different from books, those 'yani', 'masalan', etc aside... :rolleyes:

[nairi]

No, I don't think I have... but I know I've read Hovhanes Toomanian and Baruyr Sevak if that helps .

Tumanian wrote in his vernacular, i.e. dialect. Go further back and you'll find authors only writing in their vernacular. I guess I'm not sure what you mean by literate, but if literate means writing only in the Soviet standard of the 1950s to now, then you might as well consider Baronian, Tumanian, Raffi, and even Narek illiterate.

[CatWoman]

Tumanian wrote in his vernacular, i.e. dialect. Go further back and you'll find authors only writing in their vernacular. I guess I'm not sure what you mean by literate, but if literate means writing only in the Soviet standard of the 1950s to now, then you might as well consider Baronian, Tumanian, Raffi, and even Narek illiterate.

Yes, that's what I mean... 1950 to now, thats 55 years, not enough time to adapt? Did any of the writers you mentioned use una/chuna type of language? Cause there is a difference between Tumaninan around early 1900s writing in his vernacular and an Armenian young adult in year 2005 saying dari/beri/inkneresoon etc.

[Ari]

"the son of a donkey" or something like that when your parents say it to you its too good ahahhahaha

[Tres Bien]

I love the expression iyaaaaaaaaa....:)it sounds really cute

[nunechka]

hyebruin, that was SO! FUNNY! lol! lol! :laugh:

hayde is definitely armenian, but of ishte is definitely turkish... i dont care though...

i use ishte, yalla, and mashallah all the time...

and che_ka i love how you described the ka... "kaaaaaa inch es asoum?"

and if you have read armenian before you should know that the word "ham" for comaring things and for tasting things is defnitely armenian! "ham ays ban eh kuzem, hamel ayn bane" and "ham tesnem" or "shat hammov eh"

here is my addition:
the word "ashem" for looking at things
the word "ba" for starting a question "ba, yes inch utem?" "ba, menk ur gnank?"
the phrase "ha ba" for making sure of your statement or someone elses "ha ba, yes urish ban chasetsi"
the phrase "inch ka cheka" directly it means "what is and isnt" which means "whats going on"

and people, if something is persian, you can be sure that it is as much armenian too! yaaaooww! babam...

yalla... haydeh i got work to do...

[nunechka]

so what about the fact that armenians insult each other by using food...
- tandz (pear),
- or "tandzi potch" (a pears tail)
- khiyar (cucumber)
- damboul (plum)
- dtum (pumpkin)
- dtumi glukh (pumpkin head)
- chamich (raisin)
- fstkh (pistashio) this one is a nice word

more misc words (you can PM me if you dont understand what they mean)
- dmbo
- boot
- dodosh
- vay vay vay
- flan fstan
- esheg (mule)
- hokis
- ghourban elnem
- yavrik
- balas
- ktsi or skupoy (means cheap)
- dishovi (means really super cheap)

- mernem boyit
- merenm kyankit
- jaaaaan (body)
- jana (body)
- jigyar (liver)
- aziz jan (not sure what exactly it means, but its a good term)
- aziztseles (you are being lovey dovey)
- apres (you may live) how can we say that for something we are praising, what are we saying, "ohh that was good, you may live?" it sure seems like it

and what about how we will make any work into a tiny meaning, with putting an "ik" at the end.
- janik
- anoushik
- dtmik

or we will make any word to mean many things or other things, its kind of like improvising, by way of a language, such as:
- sovats movats (sovats means hungry)
- tsarav marav (tsarav means thirsty)
- tgha mgha (tgha means boy)
- latsel matsel (latsel means to cry)
- stits mtits (stits means fake)


i will come up with more later... :D

[Che_Ka]

Nunechka: The war begins. lol

I think "hayde" is not Armenian. I don't know what language it's from, but I still don't think it's Armenian. Turkish? Greek? My dad doesn't use it, so I don't think it's Arabic. (He grew up speaking only Arabic.)

Yalla is Arabic for "ya allah" (oh god). Mashalla is, I believe, Turkish, for something similar.

Ham is NOT Armenian, although it has been incorporated into BOTH dialects because of Western Armenians emigrating to Eastern Armenia. Ham is either Turkish or Arabic. The reason I'm adamant on this is because my family pronounces the "a" sound like you would pronounce "apple" -- and this sound is of course nonexistent in Armenian. I have a feeling Eastern Armenians have Armenianized its pronunciation. :) The word has no connection to the Armenian word "ham" (taste). We pronounce the 2 words differently.

And just for the record, khiar is Arabic. Boy is Turkish for tall/hasagavor. Ghourban is Turkish as well. I'm not sure what damboul is, but we use "salor" for plum. :)

[nunechka]

mashalla means god bless and yes it is turkish...

i thought of something else... i was driving and i was in a hurry (as usual, and i yelled out YALLA LAN!, and then again, i was tempted to yell and so this time it said "Yalla be"
so there are two words "lan" and "be"

i dont care where they are from...

che jaaaan! how you pronounce something doesnt matter when we are comparing letters that Mesrop Mashtots wrote... the A is an A in the words can, apple, audit, etc... that sound is not nonexistant... its an accent and if you've ever visited a villiage in armenia you know that from a 30 min drive the accent changes dramically and the same words are pronounces with not only different A sounds but, E, Y, I, U, O etc...

its the same thing... you seem to be in the mind set that everything must be spelled out... you are correct about the meanings... ghourban means matagh... and i just thought of another word we use, "maymoun" which is turkish, meaning monkey...

i know khiyan is turkish but the armenian version "varoung" isnt as insulting...

what about tsogol... this is the sour (ungrown) version of a tsiran... (i think) that is also use to insult people... you see this obsession with food, or mostly produce to insult people...

i have my first grade armenian book in front of me, and there it is the word on page 38 "HAM, HAV, HOUM, HIN, HATIK, HATOUK, HATAK, HAMEST, PAHEST, etc... the first word was HAM! lol! ohhh ya, ham is not an armenian word... the book is called "AYBBENARAN"

thank you, thank you!

[Baron Dants]

"Ham" also means taste. That could very well be the "ham" your book was referring to.

[nunechka]

yes i know that... hamn neshanakum e hamegh utelik hamel neshanakum e ays bane yev ayn bane...
- according to the armenain-english dictionary
the word "ham" means tast
the word "ham" second meaning is "both and"
the word "hamagortsel" means to collaborate...
the word "hamajoghov" means conference
the word "hamakerpel" means comply with
the word "hamachap" means symetrical

the word ham in all of these provides the comparable meaning, that people comply, there is comparison in the meaning of symetrical, etc... someone please help out here... its like no one has read armenian in this forum...

HAM is ARMENIAN

[sad_eyes]

HAM OV :) :rolleyes:

[Siamanto]

so what about the fact that armenians insult each other by using food...
- tandz (pear),
- or "tandzi potch" (a pears tail)
- khiyar (cucumber)
- damboul (plum)
- dtum (pumpkin)
- dtumi glukh (pumpkin head)
- chamich (raisin)
- fstkh (pistashio) this one is a nice word

more misc words (you can PM me if you dont understand what they mean)
- dmbo
- boot
- dodosh
- vay vay vay
- flan fstan
- esheg (mule)
- hokis
- ghourban elnem
- yavrik
- balas
- ktsi or skupoy (means cheap)
- dishovi (means really super cheap)

- mernem boyit
- merenm kyankit
- jaaaaan (body)
- jana (body)
- jigyar (liver)
- aziz jan (not sure what exactly it means, but its a good term)
- aziztseles (you are being lovey dovey)
- apres (you may live) how can we say that for something we are praising, what are we saying, "ohh that was good, you may live?" it sure seems like it

and what about how we will make any work into a tiny meaning, with putting an "ik" at the end.
- janik
- anoushik
- dtmik

or we will make any word to mean many things or other things, its kind of like improvising, by way of a language, such as:
- sovats movats (sovats means hungry)
- tsarav marav (tsarav means thirsty)
- tgha mgha (tgha means boy)
- latsel matsel (latsel means to cry)
- stits mtits (stits means fake)


i will come up with more later... :D

- flan fstan: I've heard "flan fstkhan."
- esh is "arse," not "mule."
- both skupoy and dishovi sound Russian??? They don't sound Armenian!!!




yes i know that... hamn neshanakum e hamegh utelik hamel neshanakum e ays bane yev ayn bane...
- according to the armenain-english dictionary
the word "ham" means tast
the word "ham" second meaning is "both and"
the word "hamagortsel" means to collaborate...
the word "hamajoghov" means conference
the word "hamakerpel" means comply with
the word "hamachap" means symetrical

the word ham in all of these provides the comparable meaning, that people comply, there is comparison in the meaning of symetrical, etc... someone please help out here... its like no one has read armenian in this forum...

HAM is ARMENIAN

"Ham" meaning taste is Armenian.
"Ham/Hem" meaning both is probably non-Armenian.
The prefix "hama" is the equivalent of the Latin "co/con"

Three different "words!"

[Anonymouse]

the classic, "Ara!".

-hluh estegh ari, Ara, kam bernit ktam!

or "Jogum es ape?" or "Ape, karogha chusogh es?" http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v96/Anonymouse/laugh.gif

[Siamanto]

Nairi: Interesting that your American cousins use "ganchel" (kanchel) instead of "zankel" (zangel). No doubt something else they picked up from the Arevmdahays at school.

The two words are similar to the difference between the British and American versions.


I thought that "to telephone" is "heratsaynel" in Western Armenian, not "gantchel"!!!

[Siamanto]

Gor is actually related to the verb.

Inch gnes? Tas gnem gor.

In fact, you can just say "Tas gnem"...how it was added still remains a mystery....to me at least.
I have met Armenians from Aleppo who used "eh" in lieu of "gor."
For instance, "tas gnem gor" would become "tas gnemeh."


I liken "zar" more to "havanapar".
I believe that "za[a]r" means "maybe," while "havanapar" means "probable/likely." ("havanagan")
Is "za[a]r" Armenian?

I find "havanapar" very euphonic and "noble!"

[Che_Ka]

I thought that "to telephone" is "heratsaynel" in Western Armenian, not "gantchel"!!!

In proper WA, yes.

But I meant in slang -- often we use "gantchel," which I was pointing out is the equivalent of American English slang "to call." And in EA, the slang form would be "zankel," which is the equivalent of the British English slang "to ring."

I think in both EA and WA, the proper verb would be "heratsaynel." That's the word I use when we have guests over. :)

[Che_Ka]

Zar is Turkish.

One of my favorites though! lol I've got my Amerigahay friends saying it. lol

[Che_Ka]

I have met Armenians from Aleppo who used "eh" in lieu of "gor."
For instance, "tas gnem gor" would become "tas gnemeh."



Hmmm, my entire kertasdan is from Haleb, and I've never heard that! I'll have to ask around.

I still think "gor" is not as *bad* as Armenian teachers make it out to be. lol Sure, you can work around not having "gor," but it makes the language work a whole lot better when you can use it, hence its invention (adoption?) and the fact that it's remained in use.

[Che_Ka]

-

"Ham" meaning taste is Armenian.
"Ham/Hem" meaning both is probably non-Armenian.
The prefix "hama" is the equivalent of the Latin "co/con"

Three different "words!"

Thank you.

Nunechka: I really don't wanna start an argument, but I really resent your insulting insinuation that I have not "read Armenian." Please reconsider your choice of words next time.

[nunechka]

are people in this forum not reading before commenting? the DICTIONARY for ARMENIAN-ENGLISH, my books in ARMENIAN! have the word "HAM" written with 2 meanings... 1st meaning taste, the second meaning, both and...

siamnto you even quote me and you dont read what i wrote?

[Che_Ka]

You're not the only one with a dictionary.

I have 3, and none of them give a defintion of "ham" beyond the taste/flavor definition.

[nunechka]

did you go to school in armenia che_ka?

do you have your books from then?

do you have dictionaries that not only translate from armenian to english but also from armenian to russian and french?

the word does exist... it is as simple as that... menk ayd bare oktagortsum enk ham ays neshanakutsiounov hamel ayn neshanakutiounov...

[Che_Ka]

No, I did not go to school in Armenia. I completed 14 years of Armenian schooling in Los Angeles. Never in those 14 years, in any of my Armenian textbooks, did I encounter the word "ham" to mean anything besides taste.

Yes, I have an Armenian-English dictionary. I also have an Armenian thesaurus. And a regular Armenian dictionary. None of them include under "ham" a defintion other than taste.

Perhaps this is simply a difference between the Eastern and Western Armenian authorities and intellegentsia. My textbooks and dictionaries are all Western, and I think yours are Eastern. Maybe it's not considered an Armenian word for WA, but it has been incorporated into EA dictionaries and is now considered an Armenian word in EA.

I've never heard any of my Armenian tachers use the word. They were always careful not to use foreign words (especially Turkish!!) and not to use "gor." In fact, I remember my elementary Armenian teacher would use "yev" instead of "ham." For instance, "yev khntsor bidi oodem, yev (al) narinch bidi oodem."

Maybe this is the cause of the confusion here.

[nunechka]

apperantly the western armenian teachers here teach incorrect things... for example: i found the poem "Yes Im Anoush Hayastani" in a western armenian book for teaching to students like you, and guess what, the good old "western" armenian teachers decided that Mr. Yeghishe Charenz wrote incorrectly, his own poem, and proceeded to CHANGE his writing, starting at the second verse... (not as popular to most as the first verse)...

here is how Mr. Charenz wrote it (second verse, first line)
"Siroum em mer yerkinke mouk, jrere jinj, liche louse" meaning "I love our dark sky, waters calm, lit lakes"

here is what was taught at your school (second verse, first line)
"Siroum em yes yerkinke mouk, jrere jinj, liche louse" meaning "I love the dark sky, ..."

and its not in just those lines, it is all over the freaggin poem... verse 2 line 3 (Mr. Charenz wrote "anhyourenkal" and the western armenian teachers of los angeles decided that mr. charenz was incorrect and changed it to "en hyourenkal" notice that its not only 'en' and not 'an' but it is seperated... SHAME on you Mr. Charenz, may you turn in your grave because the great western armenian teachers knew better how to write your own poem, then you did...
- ooops found more: verse 2 line 4 - According to Mr. Charenz (as he decided to write the poem he wanted to say and in fact did say "Hnamya" meaning OLD! but of course the very very berry intelligent and oooooo soooooo correct western armenian teachers decided NO! Mr. Charenz SHAME on you! how could you write something so incorrectly, and decided to change it to "hnameay" (go and pronounce that one for a change)...

ohh my GOD the more i read the poem, (which i love dearly with all my heart) the more i get angry! how dare they change our history! how dare they change what a proclaimed, famouse, EDUCATED! BELOVED! POET! WRITER! wrote... ? hmm? how dare they!

Is that what they teach you?

wow! what else have they decided isnt correct? hmmmm... in armenia when we were taught literature, the writing was not changed, if it was an Armenian poet/writer from what is known as western armenia (where I am from), they kept it the way that person wrote it... and if it was written by a poet/writer from eastern armenia (where i went to school), they kept it the way it was written also... I visited the place where Mesrob Mashtots wrote out the letters, and guess what, he had an accent too... we keep THAT (his writings) the way he wrote them...

look... i have wonderful western armenian speaking friends... they teach me words like "yalla" "ishalla" "ka" "be" "babam" "ishte" etc... and i teach them words like "parazit" "lakot" "eeeyaaaa" "skoupoy" "dishovi" "davay" etc... and when they say words in arabic, turkish, etc... i dont care, and i dont jump on them, like you have just prounced on me... i think that because, like that song says "Taparakan Hay enk menk", and we have many words in our daily dialect that we have integrated from so many other languages... we are people who dont speak just one language, on a minimum, armenians speak 2 (that is MINIMUM)... soooo, i love saying "yalla be" and "davay davay"... i think that it comes with the territory... that would be the "taparakan" part...

this is what my experience has been... i meet a new person (beruitsi), they say so softy "parev" i say "barev", and they look at me funny... but notice i dont care what their accent is... because i've heard soooo many other accents in armenia that this particular one is just another accent to me... but to THEM! its like i said something totally and completely alien... and so many times they wouldnt understand me (and of course they went to armenian school here)... but how could they not understand me? i understood them PERFECTLY! ALL THE TIME...

i never cared about any particular word, the missing sounds, etc... but beirutsis do... every one of them has attacked me for saying "KAPIK" in stead of "GABIG"... but when they said it, i understand what it means and hey thats all i need for the conversation... but not them... they were bewildered, etc... all of them and now you...

i have also noticed major cultural differences but i am only going to point out one... armenians from armenia dont find it necessary to overclaim their armenianness... but armenians from beruit do... not the persian armenians, JUST the beruitsi armenians... and that may also be attributed to the "taparakan" problem...

yalla be, ka inch g'khosis! g'baveh!
or
de lav, inch es eskan khosoum, herika!

i love them both, but i know for a fact that HAM! is a word and it has two meanings... just like the word "ser" and "ser" - "love" and "the skin off the top of milk, etc.."

:p

[Che_Ka]

First: You never even responded to the conciliatory idea I put forth in my last post.

Now…

How dare you make such an inflammatory post like that! Amot kezi. AMOT!

I don’t even know where to begin.

I am not a “Beirutsi Armenian.” I do not have any relatives from Beirut. My family is from Syria. I prefer using the umbrella term “Arevmdahay.”

Why do we overclaim our Armenianness? WHY DO WE OVERCLAIM OUR ARMENIANNESS?! Um, hello?! Every single “Beirutsi Armenian” is a descendant of a Genocide survivor. And unlike Genocide descendants who were part of the Nerkaght Movement, none of the “Beirutsi Armenians” ever moved back somewhere that is called Armenia. They never again lived somewhere where the daily language was Armenian. EVERY DAY they have had to deal with assimilation. EVERY DAY they have had to live amongst odars. But, oh, inch meghk kordzer enk menk chankernis tapelov menk mer azkuh, mer lezoon, mer mshagoutyuh bahelou. Amot kezi.

My best friend is Hayastantsi. I learn her dialect, she’s learned mine (she went to school with me). Get off your high horse.

As for Western Armenians being bewildered by the Eastern Armenian dialect. Let me put this in another perspective for you. I am the perfect example of this. The only dialect I ever heard until I was, maybe 16 or 17, was the standard Western Armenian dialect. Any Hayastantsis or Barsgahays at school spoke Western Armenian. We have no relatives in either Armenia or Iran. I had never heard Eastern Armenian – ever. I think the first time I had to converse with someone who spoke EA was when my best friend’s mom invited me to my friend’s sweet 16 party. I had no idea what she was talking about.

Now, switch to Eastern Armenians in Armenia. A significant portion, perhaps the majority, of Armenians from Armenia have some kind of connection to Western Armenia. Either their parents were born in Syria or Lebanon, or their grandparents were from some city in Western Armenia. As my friend can attest to, in many Hayastantsi families, there is a familiarity with the Western dialect because it exists within the family. My friend’s grandparents were from Lebanon and Syria, and she still has relatives in Iraq. She hears Western Armenian at family functions, etc growing up.

The overwhelming majority of Western Armenians have little to no connection to the Eastern dialect.

Also, in Armenia, you are bombarded with so many LIVING (gentani) regional dialects. In the Western Armenian world, all the regional dialects are dead, and all you have is a single standard dialect. We’re not used to hearing Armenian in any form besides the standard form that every Western Armenian speaks. Armenians in Armenia are used to hearing so many different dialects, INCLUDING WESTERN DIALECTS.

THESE ARE THE REASONS WHY IT IS SO DIFFICULT FOR ‘US’ TO UNDERSTAND ‘YOU’ YET MUCH EASIER FOR ‘YOU’ TO UNDERSTAND ‘US.’

I don’t condone or understand making fun of Eastern Armenian. However, I’ve never experienced any WA speaker make fun of EA. In my experience, it’s been the other way around.

Now onto your point about Western Armenian teachers and textbooks. You inspired me to dig up my high school Armenian textbooks. I found them.

Printed in 1994 by Hamazkayin is either my 10th or 11th grade Armenian literature textbook. The cover is missing, so I can’t give you a title. Lo and behold, why this textbook includes Yeghishe Charents’ “Kovk Hayasdani” – and, gasp, it doesn’t include the changes that you speak of.

Let’s see: page 209 of this book. Looky there. Verse 2, line 1: “mer yerginkuh.” Verse 2, line 3: “anhuirungal.” Perhaps this version you have had typographical errors. Or someone simply typed it down from memory, and had remembered it wrong. I see no reason that Western Armenian teachers would change them. It’s not like it makes the poem any more accessible to Western students. Oh, but of course not. Western Armenian teachers are stupid, and they just want to ruin Eastern Armenian. That’s the only explanation.

And as for Verse 2, line 4 – Apparently your exquisite education in Armenia forgot to mention that in original orthography (spelling), “hnamya” is not spelled like that, but as “hnameay.” Since Western Armenians have kept the original spelling, they spell it “hnameay.”

Furthermore, you think we didn’t read Eastern Armenian? My other textbook I found is called “Arti Hay Kraganootyoon.” Part One is “Arti Arevmdahay Kraganootyoon” and Part 2 is “Arti Arevelahay Kraganootyoon.” We covered both. The dialects were not negotiated. The entire Part saves the original Eastern dialect. The only thing that was changed was the spelling. It is all in original spelling. It gets rid of the Soviet spelling. Oh, and you know what? In the 11th grade, I performed a one-man play in Eastern Armenian. And my script was a photocopy of one from Yerevan; it used Soviet spelling.

Our Armenian teachers were, and continue to be, experts in the language. How dare you question their intelligence. Instead of appreciating the fact that they have dedicated their lives to teaching our precious language to a new Diaspora generation, you post such vile words. I can’t say it enough: amot kezi.

Now go educate yourself.

[Baron Dants]

Nunechka, you have attitude problems. Particulalry the way you have to write "western Armenian" with quotations marks around "western". Very condescending, rude, and just plain annoying.

I've also learned and recited "mer yerginke", "anhurengal" and "hnamya". The only problem with Western Armenian is the way the differences in pronounciation between "b,p,bp", "k,g,gk", "t,d,td" have been blurred.

Speaking of the word "ser", one is written with a "yech" (the skin of the milk), and the other with an "e" (love). Hayastantsis write them both the same way because of the Soviet spelling that was put in place in the 1920s.

[nunechka]

you see, the difference between EA and WA understanding each other is that the reason why EA understand all those dialects is NOT because some of us have heard the WA accent in our homes, (i havent)... its simply because we learn armenian in its complete and entierty... we can distinguish between "pourt" and "bourt" (meaning wool) while the first time i said that to me WA friend, she said WHAT? the HELL IS THAT? and then i said its WOOL, and then she said ohhhh you mean pourt... lol! i was like OK! lol ... whatever... i have experienced this type of thing on a daily basis until i just quit trying to explain to my WA friends what i am talking about... they would ALL say that i talk too fast... lol!

anywho, i didnt mean to put quotes for western armenian in a mean or condicending way... it was for emphasis... sorry about that...

anywho 2, i have heard of MORE cases of poems and stories being changed to suite the poor WA speaking student... but NEVER did they change any WA poets writings for us in armenia...

and NOOOOOO! Mr. Yeghishe Charentz wrote "hnamya" JUST LIKE THAT!... he was from YEREVAN (he wasnt born there, he was born in Iran, went to Van to fight, then went to moscow, and then eventually went to YEREVAN - where he did hisliterary work)... :laugh:

i am sure he feels terrible looking down on the western armenian (grammer & spelling) and thinks to himself, in heaven, that he spelled certain words incorrectly (forgetting the fact that he studied LITERATURE)... LOL !

i am not attacking you about being a victim of the genocide (MY FAMILY and of course I, we are also victims of the GENOCIDE)... have you read my posts on the "commemoration of the genocide" and how i feel about this tragic event... i am the #1 supporter of Armenan RIGHTS! i have been directly attacked by a turkish man... you made me seem like i was saying that you overclaim your armenianness also ment that i was saying that i dont care about the armenian genocide...

i care very deeply, and if you have seen pictures of the day of commemoration of armenia - you see that thousands of people, respectfully walk up that road bring flowers, and some people cry and cry... you making an assumption that you care more about it is just WRONG!... we love our land our water and our air... it is different there... maybe you should go there one day...

[Baron Dants]

Nunechka, none of the Western Armenians here (basically Che Ka and I) are saying that Eastern Armenian is incorrect. I don't know why you keep mentioning that. By the way, I picked up an Armenian song book printed in Beirut today, and guess how those three words in Charents's poem were spelled..

I still stand by my feeling that the new Eastern Armenian spelling was a mistake, and was only put in place for political motives, and with no regard to the impact it would have on the Armenian language. The fact that our brightest linguist, Hrachya Ajarian, was so steadfastedly opposed to it (to the point where he removed the "yan" from his last name, in order to not spell it with a "hi") is the best indication of it.



As for who is "more Armenian" or who acts "more Armenian", the whole idea of holding such an argument is so full of crap that I won't even join in. The same blood is running through every single one of us, and not only on April 24. :)

[Che_Ka]

I have been to Armenia, and I’m going again this year. Thanks.

In fact, it was my visit to Armenia that inspired me to become such a nationalist, to try to become an expert on our language, to speak only Armenian in the home, and even to go to church.

My reasoning about Western Armenians and their “overclaiming” wasn’t that we overclaim our Armenianness just because we were victims of the Genocide. I am well aware that many, many Genocide survivors moved to Armenia. My point was that we were victims of Genocide AND ON TOP OF THAT, we have constantly lived on foreign soil. Absence makes the heart grow fonder, no? It’s been 3 generations now that my family has lived in the Spuirk. Hayastantsis don’t yet understand what it means to live in the Spuirk, and why it is that Western Armenians are oh-so vocal and proud to be Armenian. Perhaps you’re the lucky ones.

I don’t think you understood my point on the spelling. Charents wrote “hnamya” like that because that is how it is spelled in Armenia. Just like the President’s name is spelled Kocharyan in Armenia, but Kocharian in the Western Armenian world. It’s a matter of orthography rules. The overwhelming majority of Western Armenians (hell, all Armenians) accept that the Soviet spelling rules are wrong. I support changing Soviet spelling back to the original spelling, so I really don’t care how Yeghishe Charents spelled “hnamya.” There’s only one way to spell it. And that is “hnameay.” All Western Armenian newspapers, when re-printing news articles from Armenia, will change all the spelling according to the original rules. And I support this. It’s not a matter of undermining the integrity of the original work. It’s a matter of respecting the integrity of our original orthography.

And perhaps you’re right. Perhaps Diasporan Armenians don’t have the full ability to learn all aspects of the Armenian language. IS THAT THEIR FAULT? I’d like to see the next Hayastantsi generation in LA – in 20 or 30 years – and I’d like to see just how proficient they will be in Armenian, let alone understanding Western Armenian. In Armenia, the daily language is Armenian. Of course your grasp of Armenian (of any variety) is going to be better. Then, learning about Western Armenian isn’t such an arduous task. For a Western Armenian, his first language will always be the host country’s language. He must master that, then master Western Armenian. The only time he can use Western Armenian is in the home. He is not exposed to it on TV, in the mainstream press, on billboards, etc. It becomes much more difficult to get a 100% grasp on the language. If this is the case, is it really so horrible that “Mi Gatil Meghr” becomes “Gatil Mu Meghr”? Is it really so horrible to make these changes so that little Armenian boys and girls will be able to fully understand the story? Because I’ll tell you – at that age, reading Eastern Armenian would have been quite a task for me. But I will assure you this: In the older grades, there is very little, if any, Western Armenian translations of Eastern Armenian work. As I said, we read literature in both dialects.

Once again, I don’t believe that Hayastantsis fully appreciate yet the difficult task of preserving culture and language in the Diaspora. Instead of appreciating what Western Armenians have accomplished and established on foreign land, in terms of preservation of culture and language – you say it’s not good enough.

[Objectivist]

anderes al guzes, esh aga? :D Just kidding.

[Siamanto]

Funny Armenian expressions involving "body parts."


1- "Atchk@ dzag eh" - greedy, unsatiable
2- "Kiten inger eh" - looks excatly like i.e. someone looks exactly like his/her father/mother!
3- "Agantch mi gakher" - don't pay attention.
4- "Atchk@s mdar" - something like "you just impressed me," "now, I have a good opinion of you!" Can anybody suggest a better translation? Thanks.
(Also "atchkes yelar," the opposite.)

To be continued.....

[Che_Ka]

The ubiquitous "Atchkt louys." (Literally: "light has shone upon your eye" -- is that right, shone? lol.) In practical terms, you tell it to someone when you've heard good news about them. I just used it the other day when my friend became an aunt. :)

[magdalinka]

nunechka, you made my day (or night) with your list of phrases. the problem is, that smtimes WA dont undertand EA because of the differences in barbar.

here, i got some funny ones:

"eres mi arni"- means dont buy a face.lol.(btw who can translate it?)

"dzer es arnum?"- are you buying a hand?(you are lying)

"ara sa es ova?"-meaning who is this?( and who the heck are you?)

or "karoga gites te es hoviv em?"- do you think i am a shepherd?(you think i am retarded?)
as you see armos have some issues with different parts of the body. lol

[Che_Ka]

Magdalinka: Interesting. We use "yeres mi dar" (don't give face) -- meaning, don't pay attention. Looks like you guys might use the opposite (don't take face) to mean the same thing?

[Siamanto]

The ubiquitous "Atchkt louys." (Literally: "light has shone upon your eye" -- is that right, shone? lol.) In practical terms, you tell it to someone when you've heard good news about them. I just used it the other day when my friend became an aunt. :)
How did I forget that? Thanks! It does not mean "congratulations," but it can be used in many circumstances where "congratulations" can be used!


nunechka, you made my day (or night) with your list of phrases. the problem is, that smtimes WA dont undertand EA because of the differences in barbar.

here, i got some funny ones:

"eres mi arni"- means dont buy a face.lol.(btw who can translate it?)

"dzer es arnum?"- are you buying a hand?(you are lying)

nunechka??? Yet another person questioning/confusing my gender!!! I see a pattern here! :)

"Yeres dal" and "yeres arnel" are both used in WA.

I've never heard: "Tserk arnel." Thanks!


Some new ones:
"Agantch@ khosi" - when talking about someone who is not present??? dead???
"Atchg@s g@ baghi" - hard to translate: when someone have on his/her mind of another person and considers it as a sign that the person will - of course, it's not even may - show up.

"Tserk@ yergar eh" - person who steals?

[Che_Ka]

Wow, I've never heard "yeres arnel" at all. Learn something new every day. Baron Siamanto, does it have the same meaning as "yeres dal"?

Atchk Baghil -- I love this! We use it when you kind of space out and your eyes keep staring at one spot. It means either the phone is going to ring or someone will ring the doorbell. :) Atchkt bagher eh! Nayir hima meg@ toor@ bidi zarneh!

[LadySilver]

nunechka??? Yet another person questioning/confusing my gender!!! I see a pattern here! :)


Lol sweety I don't think Magdalinka meant to call you nunechka. Go to page 5 and well there is a user with the name Nunechka unless I'm blind =P

[One-Way]

nunechka??? Yet another person questioning/confusing my gender!!! I see a pattern here! :)

Let it be remembered, I was the first. ;)

[Siamanto]

Wow, I've never heard "yeres arnel" at all. Learn something new every day. Baron Siamanto, does it have the same meaning as "yeres dal"?

Baron Che_Ka, :)
Yeres arnoghin, yeres dvogh bedk eh!

No! They don't mean the same thing! "Yeres dal" is to indulge, "yeres arnel" is to become spoiled.

[Che_Ka]

Jesus, law school must really be getting the best of me. Of course I know what "yeres arnel" means. :( lol

Shad yeres g'arnegor adiga. Yeres chdas aylevs! :)

[Siamanto]

nunechka??? Yet another person questioning/confusing my gender!!! I see a pattern here! :)

Lol sweety I don't think Magdalinka meant to call you nunechka. Go to page 5 and well there is a user with the name Nunechka unless I'm blind =P



You're not blind and you may be right.! But, based on the content of the post, the ambiguity raised some doubts in me! Of course, not about my gender! :)
I was joking! Thank you for the support! :p

[Siamanto]

nunechka??? Yet another person questioning/confusing my gender!!! I see a pattern here! :)

Let it be remembered, I was the first. ;)


I will have to disappoint you. In fact you were either number 4 or 5! Sorry! You can't be the leader in everything! :)

[nunechka]

diar dants it is sooo obvious that you didnt read my post (or the posts that i was responding to) if you think that i think i am more armenian then you, you are crazy, i never said that... again, you didnt read my previous posts or the posts i was responding to...

[nunechka]

che_ka you say your reasoning about "over claiming" wasn’t what you actually said in your last post? ok...

and YA you bet we moved to Armenia... such as MY FAMILY! I am from MUSA LER! on my dads side and SEBASTIA on my moms side... no documents are available about the types of ways my dads side of the family suffered, but on my moms side, well let me tell you how I feel... my great-grandmother (moms side) had 6 children, the turks, in the most insane ways possible right in front of the parents killed the children (burning, poking out eyes, shooting, beating, etc...) and yes very vivid memories were told... then after a while my great-grandmother and great-grandfather settled somewhere, thinking it was safe and had 3 more and again, they did the same thing... and she even was burned in one eye because they put a sword in the fire then burned her eye out... somehow she got away and so this time they were separated and found each other in Yerevan (by fate) and had 3 more children... my grandmother and her brother and sister... (very nice isn’t it...) you and the western Armenians ARE NOT the ONLY ones... and yes that is your claim in your post... read it again, I was very insulted...

Talk about foreign soil... Armenia was a SOVIET STATE! we were all forced to learn Russian in school and then Armenian... we were forced to watch what the soviet government wanted us to watch... we were forced to use their transportation, our government was run by so-called Armenians (who were actually more soviet Russian then Armenian), educators were exiled or silenced, etc... we were forced to do our Armenian rituals and traditions in private... did you know that in Armenia when I was a child people were not allowed to christen their children at church, YOU COULD BE TAKEN TO JAIL! if you did that... (I am 24 now, so it wasn’t that long ago) and you know what, we did it at home, in private... and other such wonderful things... imagine you didn’t feel comfortable in your own home... YA! that’s better isn’t it?

and you know what else, there is no political effect on our language that is just a stupid lie... we shut our mouths when it was a soviet state, and now that we are independent MORE books were opened, and more things have been discovered about our language, and it is being taught in Armenia and at the schools here in the US (that teach eastern Armenian), they adopted Armenian as the national language of Armenia when we declared intemperance... so stop telling this lie to yourself... as a matter of fact it is MUCH! more logical that the western Armenians living in Arab countries had to do MUCH MUCH MUCH more assimilation then Armenians in Armenia... so me thinks, its the other way around...

the spelling issue: che_ka And as for Verse 2, line 4 – Apparently your exquisite education in Armenia forgot to mention that in original orthography (spelling), “hnamya” is not spelled like that, but as “hnameay.” Since Western Armenians have kept the original spelling, they spell it “hnameay.”

isn’t that you? yes you did say that it was spelled incorrectly... and no NOT all Armenians follow the grammar that the western Armenians follow... the Armenians from IRAN! spell it like we do...

next item: in fact it is undermining the integrity of the writer... the fact that we don’t change Shakespeare to fit the American way or the English way is the same thing... you DONT CHANGE SOMETHING LIKE THAT! the fact that it is reprinted (with corrections) is ridicules and I AM Offended and so are the people who wrote it and the Armenian people... when I met an Armenian person I NEVER asked where they are from, the first time I met a berutsi they asked ME! and then just like you, attempted to stigmatize me, as if I lack something that they have soooo much of...

I don’t care if you lived in Australia... your accent is one thing and changing Mesrob Mashtots writing is another... I am so offended by this "translation" thing, it is making me sick... we don’t translate anything to eastern Armenian from western Armenian, and as a matter of fact it is the western Armenians that created this divide...

we don’t change the bible to fit western Armenian (and NOOOOO it is not in western Armenian, and it is as distant from it as it is to eastern Armenian) we don’t change it to fit eastern Armenian either... we keep the integrity of the TIME! Location! PEOPLE who wrote it, ALIVE, we make sure that everyone knows that this writer wrote this way because they are from this time, place, etc…. and since we respect them! and their writing, we will NEVER touch in any way, not even a comma, from its original state... that’s how we read Armenian in Armenia... We read Grigor Zohrab the way the man wrote his work... we read Hovhannes Toumanyan the way he wrote his work... etc…

this is insane... you are ok with diminishing the original state of original work for the sake of the ego of the western Armenian speaking people? why not then change everything back to the way the BIBLE was written? why aren’t we speaking Shakespearian? why not go back to the way the Urartians spoke (I don’t know HOW we could do that) but, (according to you) to uphold the "correct" spelling of the REAL Armenian people’s language, shouldn’t we then change all the writing in Armenian to fit the Urartian writing? (again I don’t know how we could actually do that)... but you see how crazy this is?

the western Armenian writing isn’t the original orthography (the turks burned ALL THE BOOKS in western armenia) some people took whatever they could, however to think that it is somehow more original then eastern Armenian is insane... the people in eastern Armenia spoke the way they did before the genocide and they continue to do so after the genocide... the teachers in western Armenia were all killed and the teachers in eastern Armenia weren’t... the same books that existed in western Armenia also existed in eastern Armenia... most of the books in western Armenia were burned, and none of the (same exact) books in eastern Armenia were burned... we still have them and we use them now...

I have NEVER said it is anyone’s fault that they didn’t learn something... I HAVE ONLY SAID that it is insane to change something from its original form to teach in western Armenian schools in LA... or anywhere else for that matter... your accusation is offensive... I NEVER said that... I am never going to say that... and don’t put me in a position to even look like or seem like, or sort of this or that, that I am saying something as stupid as that... SO, if maybe you didn’t exactly have all the correct and full Armenian text books, and you didn’t end up learning something in its most full and correct way, don’t tell the entire country of Armenia that they spell something wrong or they have adopted the incorrect Armenian as their national language... or they say some letter in correctly...

ok let the next generation of hayastantsi people live here for 20 to 30 years... and then what? are they going to come up with their one "correct" spellings? or "correct" pronunciations of letters from their memories of how it was, and then tell the entire country of Armenia that they are wrong for writing something in the news paper the wrong way? well if they do then they are obviously wrong... because in 20 or 30 years from now, Armenia will exist and they will still have Armenian as the national language, they will have been teaching this Armenian in schools, etc... and some guy from LA who has memories of speaking Armenian or has 1 or 2 pages of Armenian text isn’t going to be correct, the country of Armenia is going to be correct...

I don’t understand your mi katil meghr analogy...

what about the children in Armenia, who, from a very young age have learned the letter in a certain way all of a sudden have to change it when they read western Armenian literature? I guess they just do it, teachers don’t spoon feed them... WE JUST DO IT! we read the words the way the people wrote them! we understand them, and if we don’t, we learn very quickly since our grade depends on it...

what’s not good enough? we come here and belong to the same clubs that you do, and if there isn’t one, we make more... if there isn’t a homentmen in a city where 2 Armenians have migrated to, DAMN IT! we call up the club and establish one there too... we love that... and we do it... the problem isn’t that you have a better appreciation... lol! that’s even funny to say... the problem is that the eastern Armenians are satisfied and respect western Armenian (don’t change even a comma in a sentence, they preserve it for the sake of integrity and respect of the writers, etc...) while the western Armenians DONT!

EVERY single western Armenian I have know, and now you through this shenanigan, thinks that it is ok to change literature, thinks eastern Armenian (the language of the country of Armenia) is wrong... it has misspellings... lol! or it isn’t full or complete... or whatever the problem is (why any news has to be translated BAFFELS ME)... that’s the problem... the idea that there is this enormous amount utter disrespect and disregard for the language of that region which has been spoken for as long as it has existed...

that’s my problem... and that is the real issue here... you wrote words like "babam" or "ka"... those are not real Armenian words... but I didn’t say anything but "HEY that’s funny... i know i use those too, i learned them from my berutsi friends... " and when i said something that somehow wasn’t exactly taught at your western Armenian school in Los Angeles, California... OHHHH! no I was wrong... you said "that word sounds Russian... that other word is turkish... blah blah blah... and so we had to go into this entire week long conversation... you see how I WASNT the one that decided to start this up? lol! it was the western Armenian speaking person again... yup! again...

because ka is Armenian… yes… right? I didn’t think so either…

[Che_Ka]

I'd encourage you to please go back and re-read my last post. Most of what you just said were attempting to refute points that I never even made. I'm very confused as to how you could so greatly misinterpret what I wrote. I'm gonna go back and read my last post before I make any substantive comments on your post.

[Che_Ka]

I never stated, nor did I imply, that Western Armenians (WAs for short) “overclaim” their identity SOLELY because they are Genocide survivors. I said that was one reason, but that a second reason (which amplifies the effect of the first) is that WAs never returned to Armenia. They never returned to somewhere where everybody was Armenian, where everybody spoke Armenian, etc. Therefore, they have felt this need to “overclaim” their identity – to make sure everyone around them knows that they are Armenian. It’s the fact that they suffered this genocide (which many Hayastantsis also suffered) – but, in addition, they never returned to a majority-Armenian environment. Got it? I’m not stupid or ignorant. I know that a large percentage of Hayastantsis are from Western Armenia. I know that they suffered the same things we suffered. But, the difference becomes those who stayed outside Armenia, and those who went to Armenia. The psychological effect of living in an all-Armenian environment means that you’re not going to feel the need to overlclaim your identity – why? Because, duh, everyone else is Armenian. I thought I made that clear in my original post, which I will repost.

<< Why do we overclaim our Armenianness? WHY DO WE OVERCLAIM OUR ARMENIANNESS?! Um, hello?! Every single “Beirutsi Armenian” is a descendant of a Genocide survivor. And unlike Genocide descendants who were part of the Nerkaght Movement, none of the “Beirutsi Armenians” ever moved back somewhere that is called Armenia. They never again lived somewhere where the daily language was Armenian. EVERY DAY they have had to deal with assimilation. EVERY DAY they have had to live amongst odars. But, oh, inch meghk kordzer enk menk chankernis tapelov menk mer azkuh, mer lezoon, mer mshagoutyuh bahelou. Amot kezi.>>

If that wasn’t clear, I tried to make myself clearer the second time around:

<< My reasoning about Western Armenians and their “overclaiming” wasn’t that we overclaim our Armenianness just because we were victims of the Genocide. I am well aware that many, many Genocide survivors moved to Armenia. My point was that we were victims of Genocide AND ON TOP OF THAT, we have constantly lived on foreign soil. Absence makes the heart grow fonder, no? It’s been 3 generations now that my family has lived in the Spuirk. Hayastantsis don’t yet understand what it means to live in the Spuirk, and why it is that Western Armenians are oh-so vocal and proud to be Armenian. Perhaps you’re the lucky ones.>>

To make this perfectly clear. There are 2 reasons that WAs overclaim their identity. 1) Genocide survivors. 2) Never returned to Armenian environment. Many Hayastantsis also fall under #1. NO HAYASTANTSI falls under #2. Do you see my point now?

Great, moving on.

You claim living in Soviet Armenia was like living in a foreign state. I don’t buy it. The daily language on the streets has always been Armenian. Did you speak Russian at any time other than when you were required to for school? Did you generally speak Russian with the clerk at the store? I’ll bet not. Because everybody knew Armenian. Furthermore, just the fact that everybody is Armenian is enough to make a world of difference. When everyone around you is Armenian, there is no need to overclaim your identity.

Spelling Issue.

You said: << isn’t that you? yes you did say that it was spelled incorrectly... and no NOT all Armenians follow the grammar that the western Armenians follow... the Armenians from IRAN! spell it like we do...>>

I don’t even know where to begin here. I don’t know what you’re trying to say in the first 2 sentences. I said “hnamya” is spelled incorrectly according to the original orthography.

Honey, please do your research. Armenians in Iran use original orthography. Was Iran part of the Soviet Union? No. So then, Iranian Armenians spell like Western Armenians.

Grammar and spelling are two different issues. I don’t know why you brought grammar in, or where it fits in…

Look, in my opinion, Barsgahays have the best of both worlds. They have the original pronunciation of the letters (which WA lacks), and they keep the original spelling (which Hayastantsis lack).

As for grammar. I view EA (Iran/Armenia) and WA as equal. Neither is better than the other. They are dialects that have been derived from the original krapar.

The orthography rules that we have upheld in Western Armenian are the most “authentic” that we know of. Go look at all the documents in the Madenataran. They’re all spelled in original spelling, the one that Western Armenians use. I know, I checked when I was there. I don’t understand why I should accept changes in spelling that were made by Soviets to have our language resemble Latin/Cyrillic languages? Doesn’t make sense to me.

And, you seem to claim that in Armenia, you keep the spelling the way it was written. WRONG. Do you know how many Western Armenian poems I’ve memorized from books published in Yerevan, that were written with Soviet spelling. I even have an essay written by Hagop Baronian called “Shraylootyoon” that is in Western Armenian, but written with Soviet spelling. I’m quite sure Mr. Baronian did not use Soviet spelling.

It goes both ways.

Translations Issue.

I’m not familiar with how you read the Bible in Armenia. In Aramaic? Hebrew? I don’t know. It was translated from its original language into Krapar. From then, it has been recently translated into Ashkharapar so the people could understand it. I’ve read the Bible in WA. I’m not sure there’s anything wrong with that. I don’t know if you’re implying that you read the Bible in Krapar? That’s great if you did.

But maybe you were referring to the spelling issue. I know that the Armenian Church in Armenia refuses to use Soviet spelling, so all Bibles are printed in original spelling (“Western Armenian spelling”) – is this what you’re talking about? Honestly, I don’t know. Either way, Bibles are now being printed in Eastern Armenian with Soviet spelling. I read a story on it a few months ago.

I don’t know what to do with this, and where it fits in….<< the western Armenian writing isn’t the original orthography (the turks burned ALL THE BOOKS in western armenia) some people took whatever they could, however to think that it is somehow more original then eastern Armenian is insane... the people in eastern Armenia spoke the way they did before the genocide and they continue to do so after the genocide... the teachers in western Armenia were all killed and the teachers in eastern Armenia weren’t... the same books that existed in western Armenia also existed in eastern Armenia... most of the books in western Armenia were burned, and none of the (same exact) books in eastern Armenia were burned... we still have them and we use them now...>>

On to translations from EA to WA. Apparently you have decided to believe that a significant portion of Eastern Armenians works are routinely translated into Western Armenian. This is not true. ONCE AGAIN, WE READ AND LEARNED STORIES, POEMS, BOOKS IN EASTERN ARMENIAN. My goodness. Would you like me to mail my textbooks to you?

My point about it not being “our” fault that we don’t have a 100% grasp on the language…I think you completely misunderstood. By living in the Diaspora and being bombarded with other languages and assimilation in general, learning Armenian as you would learn it in Armenia is impossible. It may be possible for the WAs in Syria/Lebanon, where they are not subject to the intense pressures to assimilate, but it’s impossible here in the US. It has nothing to do with the quality of our textbooks or teachers. Let’s assume Armenians educated in Armenia have a 100% grasp of the language. Let’s assume Armenians (all kinds!!!!) in USA have a 70% grasp of the language. Tell me, for which group is it going to be easier to learn the other dialect? Exactly my point. So in the elementary years, WA children in the USA are given translated works because it’s more difficult for them to understand EA than it is for EA children in Armenia to understand WA. This was my point.

This deterioration of the grasp of the language affects Armenians born in the US, whether they are WA or EA. That was another point I had made.

When did I ever say I was forcing Armenians in Armenia to change anything? The only problem I have is with the spelling system. I won’t accept it. I’m sure linguists in Armenia today want the original spelling reinstated. But it costs lots of money to do that. Maybe it will happen someday, who knows. Why does the Church still use original spelling? I’m not saying the Soviet spelling is wrong – I think it was a mistake. I will not accept such a mistake as the correct way to spell. It would be one thing if original spelling was unmanageable and it had to be changed. But it is alive and well, and that is a testament that it is manageable.

To reiterate, I don’t have any problems with EA! I don’t think it’s incomplete, or wrong, or anything else. It is an equal counterpart to WA. My only issue is with the spelling. When I said news stories are translated – I meant the spelling was changed to original spelling. But the dialect remains as is. It is still in Eastern Armenian. We do respect the integrity of the work, which is why it remains in EA.

I would love it if all Armenian schools taught both dialects, like Chamlian does. I WOULD LOVE IT! Because there were students in my class who had to study in WA when their mother tongue was EA. That sucks. And this is one of the reasons why I said Hayastantsis don’t seem to appreciate what it means to be living in the Diaspora. Why haven’t they pushed to have EA taught in all Armenian schools? Or have it taught in more public schools? Something! Maybe they don’t feel that it is so important. Maybe they feel that learning WA in school is sufficient. Perhaps. But that is a difference b/w WA and EA. For me, personally, this language that my mother has passed down to me, is worth a thousand treasures, like Silva Gaboudigian says. It is my lifeline. It is the reason my family has been able to remain Armenian for 90 years now. That is why WAs are so protective and proud of their language/dialect.

And lastly, you think you’ve been stigmatized? You don’t think I’ve been made fun of in Hollywood (behind my back!) for using “gor” and so forth? You don’t think I went to Armenia and a couple of times I was told to speak English rather than WA, either because they couldn’t understand my WA or who knows why. It goes both ways.

[dstyle]

Obviously you've never been to beirut, or haleb, or else you would know if people spoke armenian on the streets, or they lived in a mostly armenian surrounding and what not.

[Che_Ka]

Oh Lord. I've been to Aleppo 3 times; Beirut once. Thank you very much.

Do Armenians in Aleppo get to speak Armenian with the Arab store clerk at the clothing store? Or the Arab students at Aleppo College? Or the Arab worker at the government office? Or the Arab worker at the airport? Or their Arab co-workers?

Of course Armenians in Aleppo and Beirut speak Armenian amongst themselves, in the home and in public. Just like in the US. But that is NOT THE SAME as Armenian being the state language -- where every single person in society speaks Armenian. Where every single person in society IS ARMENIAN.

[Baron Dants]

diar dants it is sooo obvious that you didnt read my post (or the posts that i was responding to) if you think that i think i am more armenian then you, you are crazy, i never said that... again, you didnt read my previous posts or the posts i was responding to...

No no...I know you didn't say that. I was agreeing with you that the whole debate on that topic is useless.

[magdalinka]

Magdalinka: Interesting. We use "yeres mi dar" (don't give face) -- meaning, don't pay attention. Looks like you guys might use the opposite (don't take face) to mean the same thing?
well, "eres arnel " means to be too pushy or spoiled.lol

[magdalinka]

You're not blind and you may be right.! But, based on the content of the post, the ambiguity raised some doubts in me! Of course, not about my gender! :)
I was joking! Thank you for the support! :p
i like everybody's posts except for the verrry long and boring ones no metter who they belong to so i might mean you as well. :laugh:

OK people we speak differently but it doesnt mean that somebody is better. its time to just stop arguing about this question and insulting each other. ;)

[Siamanto]

i like everybody's posts except for the verrry long and boring ones no metter who they belong to so i might mean you as well. :laugh:


Are you telling that - as in kinder garden - the "shadakhos" ones should be punished? Please, keep in mind that a Web forum is the only place where a "shadakhos" is rewarded...with a star or...! :)

You just proved that all New Yorkers are mean, not only the Manhattan dwellers that you were complaining about! :p

PS. How many words would be acceptable to you? How high can you count? :)

[Crimson Glow]

*tries to think of one*

ummmm.....

what about "achket chela!" That one used to scare me. Like....why is my eye gonna fall out???

[Siamanto]

*tries to think of one*

ummmm.....

what about "achket chela!" That one used to scare me. Like....why is my eye gonna fall out???

Yes. "Achke yellel" is the opposite "achk mdnal."
In fact, if translated literally, all of them are weird and funny! :)
One wonders what they had in mind? :) I like them! :)

[spiral]

gluxes gnats...

ham@ hanir

nerveri degh -- this really doesn't make sense if you think about it, given the context in which it is usually said.

[nunechka]

#1 armenians from Iran --> in the schools established all over Los Angeles, OF THOSE THAT ARE by ARMENIANS fron IRAN! they teach the EXACT type of armenian that is taught in ARMENIA!... again! one more time! THEY TEACH THE EXACT TYPE OF ARMENIAN THAT IS TAUGHT IN ARMENIA! how do I know that? because when we were looking for a school for my little brother and my parents didnt want him to learn incorrect grammer they looked around and FOUND OUT that the schools by the Iranian Armenians were teaching the EXACT armenian that was taught in ARMENIA! HAH! lol!... so anywho, if in fact the orthography of the Iranian Armenians is correct, then BY GOLLY the orthography in Armenia is the correct one also... and so it is then a fact taht the "authenticity" of the western armenian is actually INAUTHENTIC... because the Iranian armenians (from my own personal family Experiance) teach the exact SAME armenian that is taugh in armenia currently and 10 and 20 years ago... ok? ok...

you know what makes me really angry... its your misconception and total disrespect for Armenians and Armenia... you keep refering to us as if we are from another planet... the soviet spelling... lol! that is pathetic! there is no such thing! do you understand that? THERE IS NO SUCH THING as a soviet spelling or soviet grammer or soviet anything else... we are ARMENIANS! we have spoken THIS type of ARMENIAN in that region of ARMENIA! for as long or longer then the western armenians have spoken it their way!... i am so sick of this BS about "soviet spelling and grammer" GET IT THRU your thick armenian skull... there is no such thing!... that is the WA teachers way of justifying what they have taugh you...

FACT: armenians in EREBUNI! have spoken with this dialect and have taught EASTERN ARMENIAN! for as long as it has been alive... there was no soviet at that time... and the people living there were teaching the same thing as they are teaching now...

again! you have got to be kidding me... you think that the bible is written in WA? are you that ignorant? THE BIBLE IS WRITTEN IN GRAPAR! that is not WA and it is much closer to EA then it is to WA! when it comes to spelling and when it comes to pronounciations it is closer to WA then to EA... THE BIBLE IN ARMENIAN is NOT! NOT NOT NOT! in WA... do you understand basic english? can you read my words? google it! GRAPAR! is the way in whcih the bible is written! not WA or EA...

you are truly pushiing my buttons here... look my dear, you can think or feel anythign you want... there is not one single linguist that wants to change anything to fit any village dialect into the literature of armenia... AND! the reason why, not as many schools in LA or in the US, teach EA is because NOT AS MANY EA live in certain areas... and not as many of them are as rich to be able to do so... and we are very happy that the Iranian Armenians teach it like we do, and so we send our childern to their schools...

the WA spelling is not more originial as EA... they have BOTH been around as long as the other... if you think that WA grammer is correct or original, then you must also believe that EA is as correct and as orignial! considering that it has been around in its current form as long as the other...

again! one more time! for all of those simple minded people... there is no such thing as SOVIET GRAMMER OR SOVIET SPELLING!... that is insane...

if infact, if you believe there is soviet spelling/grammer, then you must also believe that there is arabic spelling/grammer in the WA language...

i certainly do not believe that there is arabic spelling or grammer, and as it follows i do not beleive that there is soviet spelling and grammer...


and oyu know what else che-ka... this is the reason why many EA dont feel welcome in those wonderful established WA clubs... because you push us away as if we have done something horrible by speaking ARMENIAN, the way it is intended to be... the way it has been spoken in that region for as long as that region has been in armenian hands... for as long as mesrob mashtots has written the letters, for as long as the teachers have taugh it thereafter...

this is why i decided i didnt want to belong to this forum, and so on, and so forth... it is the ignorance, the stigmatization, the utter disrespect for our language... the incredible denial of facts, the truth, and again the profound refusal to accept the truth.

[Che_Ka]

Whereas a few days ago I thought you might be misinterpreting my words, I am now convinced you are simply not reading my posts.

If you think there is no such thing as Soviet spelling, then you are truly ignorant. Go pick up a simple encyclopedia, and it will give you all the information you need about this. You don't even have to go that far. Type in "Eastern Armenian, orthography" at Yahoo, and the first thing that pops up is this:

<<Today, Armenian has two official versions, Eastern and Western, along with many dialects. There are also two versions of spelling rules in Armenian, classical and Soviet. The classical orthography was developed in the 5th century, the Soviet orthography was developed in 1922 by Soviet rulers and is a conversion of the classical. Generally, Western Armenian uses classical orthography, and Eastern uses Soviet; the one exception being Eastern Armenian speakers in Iran, who use the classical orthography. >> http://www.wordnet.com/languages/armenian.html

If that's not enough, I have read Iranian-Armenian works online. They were written with classical orthography.

I can't even believe I'm still arguing about this.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT "DIALECT" AND "ORTHOGRAPHY" ARE DIFFERENT?!?!?!

I appreciate the Eastern Armenian dialect. I do not appreciate the orthography used by Eastern Armenians in Armenia.

I hope you understand the difference now, although I don't think you do.

DIALECT = I say "Yes g'oozem." You say "Yes oozoum em." EXCELLENT! I LOVE BOTH!

PRONUNCIATION = I say "parev." You say "barev." EXCELLENT! I LOVE BOTH!

ORTHOGRAPHY = I write "Kocharian." You write "Kocharyan." I write "siun" [se-ini-huin-noo] (meaning, column), you write "syoon" [se-hi-vo-huin-noo]. NO! I WILL NOT ACCEPT THE WAY YOU WRITE.

I very highly doubt that Iranian Armenians are now teaching Eastern Armenian with Soviet spelling. Obviously they're teaching Eastern Armenian, but certainly not with Soviet spelling. And if they are, it is only to attract the Armenians from Armenia.

As for the rest of your post, I don't think it's worth a response, but I'll give a ferw points.

* Here's why I don't think you read my post. I CLEARLY STATED IN MY POST THAT THE BIBLE WAS WRITTEN IN KRAPAR (GRABAR). Please re-read it.

* You insinuated that Western Armenian is a "village dialect." I just wanted to point that out to illustrate the disrespect you apparently view the dialect with. Have you no shame?
Today's Western Armenian is based upon the dialect of Bolis. You know Bolis? You know, Istanbul. That place that has 10 million people? That city that was the capital of the Ottoman Empire? My, I'd never think the Ottoman Empire would have its capital in a village.

* <<the WA spelling is not more originial as EA... they have BOTH been around as long as the other... >>
<<for all of those simple minded people... there is no such thing as SOVIET GRAMMER OR SOVIET SPELLING!... that is insane... >>

Statements like those is the reason why I think you have not done your research. You really shouldn't be posting with such authority if you think that those statements are correct. "Simple-minded people"? Nice one.

* <<this is why i decided i didnt want to belong to this forum, and so on, and so forth... it is the ignorance, the stigmatization, the utter disrespect for our language... the incredible denial of facts, the truth, and again the profound refusal to accept the truth.>>

Every single one of those characteristics describes you, based on these last few posts.

Look, you seem to be a proud Armenian. And I like that. But please, learn some more about our language and related issues before you start name-calling, eh?

[nunechka]

actually it looks to me that you dont read anythign that i write...

apearntly between the two of us, you have a much more stuborn head, and so you can pass on whatever you think about something that does not exist but rather feeds the fire for people such as yourself...

if you keep repeating something more often you will start to believe it, and the more you beleive it the more you will want to make sure it doesnt slip away in the noise, then you and others similar to you will need to write it down, put it on the internet and call it information...

when EA came to the US en mass starting after 1977, we didnt know that there was so much hate agaist us by the WA... and then when my family got hear, i was searching for armenian schools, and we stumbled upon one of the ridiculas websites that said that we speak soviet armenian, we were so offended... my mother was like, translate everyhting that says... and so i did, and man my family was so angry... we told others and no one understood where these people are getting their information, and so the conclusion was as simple as your agrument with me... you are justifying something that has been taugt to you, and you want that to be true no matter what... and so you will destroy our percious armenian just to satisfy your ego... you will call our precious armenian names, and say things like what you have said in your posts... "it isnt original, it doesnt have the correct spelling, etc..." just so you can justify your means and ends...

we dont care about how you say or do anything, thats why when armenians had just enough money to put together their own schools in the US, they did, and in the mean while we taugt armenian to children at home...

this conversation is as worthless as the differences in orthography or dialect...

go head! b!tch and moan about your g'oozem or my uzuom em... but know this, that EVERY THING THAT YOU ARE TAUGHT in school, is also taught in schools in armenia! ALONG with the rest...

let me simplify it for you...
WA - teaches WA orthography, spelling, grammer, pronounciations, etc...
EA - teaches BOTH WA and EA orthography, spelling, grammer, pronounciations, etc...

THAT IS WHY we understand you, but you dont understand us... that is why we have learned FULL ARMENIAN, and you havent... you can accept or discard what ever you please, but if you dont understand my armenian, or i speak too fast for you, or what ever your brain cant catch up to, because my armenian is advanced, and it not only includes WA and EA but it also includes GRAPAR! then i am sorry but, armenian schools that teach EA programs, have a curiculam that addresses and teaches ALL of it, COMPLETELY and we dont discard WA pronounciations... we teach them too... unlike WA schools...

you are not reading my posts... but thats ok... thats the differences between EA and WA speaking people... one of them accepts both and the other is pushy and ignorant, and so they dont care to understand what we are talking about...

[nunechka]

i wish you the same as you wished me on your last line about learning more about our literature/language...

[Che_Ka]

After thinking to myself "huh??" and "you're kidding me!" about a dozen times each while reading through your post, I've decided to give it up.

It seems you are unable to appreciate, much less refute, the points and arguments that I have put forth. You haven't critically read a word I've posted. All that matters is what you think is right; and no matter what information or perspective I may offer, it will not matter, as it is immediately filtered through your brain. The ignorant misconceptions, stereotypes, and animosities that you hold seem to disallow you from so much as considering that perhaps there is another way to look at things.

I wish you success in all of your endeavors. Hopefully we can each do our independent part to ensure the longevity of the Armenian nation, language, culture, and identity.

[Siamanto]

gluxes gnats...

"Kloukh@s knats!" How did I miss that one! :)





ham@ hanir


As for "ham," I've heard
- "ham@ yertal"
- "ham@ hanel"
- "ham@ pakhav" :) (I saw one running away on four legs! :) )

Interestingly, I've never heard "ham@ kal." Strange!




nerveri degh -- this really doesn't make sense if you think about it, given the context in which it is usually said.

What does it mean? Thanks!

[magdalinka]

Are you telling that - as in kinder garden - the "shadakhos" ones should be punished? Please, keep in mind that a Web forum is the only place where a "shadakhos" is rewarded...with a star or...! :)

You just proved that all New Yorkers are mean, not only the Manhattan dwellers that you were complaining about! :p

PS. How many words would be acceptable to you? How high can you count? :)
Why everybody thinks New Yorkers are mean? We are not, we are very polite and friendly.:crying:

Simantro dzhan, you can write as mush as your hands will let you, but that would not guarantee you that people will read it :naughty:

[magdalinka]

did anyone think that TSAVT TANEM is literally "i will take away your pain".(the meaning is really deep).

[Che_Ka]

Magdalinka: I wasn't used to hearing "tsavt danem" -- so when I first started hearing it, I thought it was such a nice saying! :)

It's kind of similar to "hokis yeller" -- your mom says it so often, that you don't realize it's quite a nice saying. :)

[nunechka]

amazing you just repeated what i told you to do che-ka... it seems to me that you need to take some of your own advice...

and for the record... i believe i gave up this argument WAY before you (well maybe not WAY before) but on my last post BEFORE your white flag raising, i had already given up...

idealistically i had given up A LONG time ago... it was probably in 11th grade... :)

[nunechka]

doesnt hokis yeller mean (my spirit is coming out?) yeller means coming out right? and hokis is the ghost or spirit right? so then tsavt tanem and hokis yeller are completely different things...

tsavet tanem means i will take your pain away and it is used in an emotional and effoctional way by and to people who love each other, and hokis yeller i guess means something different but used in the same way, just like hokis, or jana, or sirelis, or whatever else that is for loving one another? right?...

if hokis yeller means the samething as tsavet tanem then all other effectional words like anoush jan, sirelis, or hokis, or jana, mean the same thing... ??? but i dont think they mean the same thing...

[nunechka]

here are more slangs:

tsitsikt utem
toushikt utem
vorikt utem

[Che_Ka]

The analogy I was making was that they are both sayings that have deep emotional meanings -- yet they are used so often that you don't realize the deep meaning. Trouble reading again?

[nunechka]

yes, because i am reading a post by someone who has trouble making sense

[nunechka]

here is something funny: armenians tend to insult people by calling them animal names... i know other do it, but we have special meanings, and we are much more creative...

hav (chicken), it has a meaning that is different, when we call a person hav it means we call saying they are stupid
kov (cow) insult of course
yez (i think it means jackarse)

and this reminds me of "yezdi" it is a racist thing, but its funny when i hear armenians on the street saying that about someone... lol

[nunechka]

here is a real idiom: (meaning of an idiom is a saying or phrase in a language that is said in a certain way without a literary rule applying, such that it must be said that way and there is no rule that say why)...

- kunes tanum eh (my sleep is taking me away, i.e. i am sleepy, rather the english meaning is saying I am a certain thing, which is sleep)
i think the armenian is much more true... dont you actually feel that the sleep is taking you, and you wanna go, it is sooo very anoush... :D

what about the word for lover "yar" which spelled differently (che-ka) means ayr (which is fire) and this means you are my fire (you are my love, i.e. you are what i worship, if we can remember armenians were "Gragapasht"

another idiom
- anoti em (i am without air)
- sovats em (i am starving)
- ungousht em (i am without full (from eating you get full) but the word gousht doesnt mean full it is the perfect word for saying the that particular state of being (not hungry, full, satsfied, etc...)

- sirtes letsvel eh (my heart has filled) it means you are sad and your are going to cry, so you are essencially saying that your heart has filled with tears... how fitting yes?...

[Siamanto]

Why everybody thinks New Yorkers are mean? We are not, we are very polite and friendly.:crying:

magdalinka,
I totally agree! They 're probably jealous of New Yorkers! :) Let their venom poison their own life! :evil:



Simantro dzhan, you can write as mush as your hands will let you, but that would not guarantee you that people will read it :naughty:
I thought that we had to! :confused:
I always read all posts twice. I'm glad you opened my eyes, I owe you so much! :)
I'm glad to learn that I don't have to read your posts anymore! :p

PS. I'm so flattered that you read my posts! :)

[nunechka]

another one:

"mughamov" means (with grace)

"kamats kamats" (it literally means "slowly, slowly" which has the meaning of "we are doing ok" i.e. "we are going about our life in a normal way"

"yolla enk gnum" [broken down - yolla is a word in turkish meaning "road", the rest is in armenian which means "we are going"] so it means "we are going on the road" but the real meaning is "there is nothing interesting going on"

[Anonymouse]

Habrgel es?

[nunechka]

here is more proof that the word HAM does exist in Armenian AND! it has two meanings...

the group Zulal (the ladies from Boston) in their rendition of Zinch oo Zinch Dam, the last 2 lines say " Ham ara, ham havnets......... ham hani dzamgal goven" meaning "I both liked it and took it...... and I'll finaly fetch the barrette from the sea"

coma coma yeeh! zinch oo zinch dam loghvortin... la la la la! :p

:wave:

i love armenian!

eat your hearts out che-ka and the likes, who really dont understand armenian, and the rich literature that we have... :D

[nunechka]

what does habgrel mean? i have heard that many times... but i laugh everytime i hear, it doesnt sound armenian...

[Baron Dants]

eat your hearts out che-ka and the likes, who really dont understand armenian, and the rich literature that we have... :D


You must by far be one of the most obnoxious posters I have ever encountered. Congratulations!




That is still not sufficient proof by the way, but whatever...

[Che_Ka]

I'm very happy that you love Armenian. Nevertheless, you proved nothing. Well, except that you indeed are the most obnoxious person I hope never to meet.

You don't suppose that rural, pre-Genocide Armenian folk songs included...*gasp*...Turkish words, do you?!

BTW, I proudly own the Zulal CD and I noticed the "ham" months ago.

[Baron Dants]

It's like Tumanian using "hongur hongur" in his text for Anush.

[Che_Ka]

Silly Baron. Armenian literature and music is devoid of foreign influence. Every word in Armenian literature and music MUST be Armenian. Besides, didn't you know "hongur" means "where is my eyebrow?" Armenian?! Apparently, you don't know Armenian at all.

[Baron Dants]

Silly Baron. Armenian literature and music is devoid of foreign influence. Every word in Armenian literature and music MUST be Armenian. Besides, didn't you know "hongur" means "where is my eyebrow?" in Armenian?! Apparently, you don't know Armenian at all.


:crying:

But...but..........I THOUUUUUUUUUGHT I DIIIIIIIIIIIIID!!!!

:crying:




:laugh:

[nunechka]

LOL! i am so happy to be on your super list diar dants...
and you too che-ka... i hope i never meet people as ignorant and as ridiculas as you...

ham kech haskanum mer mayreni lezun, ham el chek uzum suvorel... dzez tsankanum em miayn mi ban, vor yerb vor azdvats ir yereseh yet dartsni depi dzez vor anaknkal ch'linek ays norutsyunnerits"

and you are so special for owning that CD... surprise i do too... lol! no i dont think that rural armenian songs have turkish words... actually MOST likely it is those who had the opportunity to go out side of the country and into the cities where they would have to learn another language... there is an old "arrat" (i.e. saying) about a man who never learned another language and one day another man somehow got into this village and he was from europe, so he wanted to get help from these armenian rural, villagers, and he spoke so many language, (except armenian) and the villager couldnt understand any of the languages... and so the lost man gave up and left, then the wife came out of the house and said "Yes vor kez asumey, goneh mi lezu sovori, mi or petk k'ga, indz ch'lesetsir" and the husband replyed "etkan lezu inke giter, iran petk eghav?" lol! and this is said as a reminder about how the rural Armenians didnt know any other lanuage accept armenian, it was those city folks who spoke other languages...

and unlike you (diar and che-ka) i dont have such a list for armenians... i love them all...

[Che_Ka]

Baron Pear: Oh that's alright. I bet you went to a "western" Armenian school. If so, I'm not surprised by your ignorance.

[nunechka]

great, i am glad that you have all this turkish influence all over western armenian, but we dont here on the eartern side

[nunechka]

this is why there is a divide... because of idiots like you...

keep pushing us armenians away, - divide we fall...

and we will never have armenia united, we have morons like you in our culture... dont get me wrong there are plenty of them in all cultures, we just happen to be blessed with the shadakhos and uber moronic type, the armenian type is much more leathel...

[Che_Ka]

che merci. anagngali chem kar. thanks for your concern. see ya later.

[Che_Ka]

great, i am glad that you have all this turkish influence all over western armenian, but we dont here on the eartern side

please please please, tell me you're being sarcastic.

(btw, talk about creating divisions, eh?)

[nunechka]

i can smell the utter disrespect and ignorance toward a culture and its literature from two people who dont even know the word "ham" has two meanings...

this is what happens all the time... see che-ka... i told you its the WA that divide us armenians into two pieces... not EA... we dont care... just like Aram Asatryan said "hayes do, hay em yes, vakh ko tsave tanem yes"... but then we all realized that we are not dealing with NORMAL armenians here, they are ... ohhh ohhhh "western" armenians"... ohhhh i'm sorry i didnt know it was so super to be from western armenian, it is SO MUCH BETTER then EA, we are from a bad virus ridden armenian type, thanks for showing us the way, we all should bown down to WA...

and all this time i thought we were all just armenian, and everyone starting with the entire country of armenia, to Yeghishe Charents, to Hovannes Toumanian, to Sevak to Aram Asatryan, to my family, to me, we were all wrong and Che-ka and diar dants were right... their education in armenian school in los angeles, was primo... screw you toumanian, you didnt get an education in armenian school in los angeles, you dont know armenian very well, or as well as che-ka and diar do...

OHHH WE ARE ALL VERY SORRY...

oh and dont forget Sayat Nova too! he was WAY OFF! i mean if he only had the insight on our language as you two do... thats too bad... i am sorry, 500 years later he would still apollogize to you two, after all you are literary scholars, and you would spit on a man like toumanian, and sayat nova and heck the entire country of armenia! all of the residents of Erebuni!... we all had it wrong, che-ka and diar have it correct...

someone give them a prize please... they have proven once in for all that WA want to see a divided armenian population... they will fight armenians tooth and nail, to kill their dreams of uniting... thanks che-ka and diar...

one of the things i really love about you two is how you think toumanian didnt speak armenian as well as you do... lol! i love that one...

and yes keep crying, it is shame... shat amot dzezi
but i am not surprised at this... this type of attitude is in 60 to 70 percent of WA people...

[nunechka]

i know lets talk about who created division...

read back to my first post... and then your response... you are the expert and we are all illiterate...

[Baron Dants]

You can't possibly be serious. Please, please tell me you're not serious. Nobody said anything about Western Armenian being BETTER! START ACTING LIKE A NORMAL HUMAN BEING, AND REPLY TO WHAT WAS ACTUALLY SAID, NOT WHAT YOU WANT TO PROJECT UPON US!

And I didn't say anything about a list. I just said you're obnoxious.

And if you're saying that there were no foreign words used by villagers, you're also not the brightest apple of the bunch.

Speaking of Aram Asatryan, ever heard the song "Sharjir Sharjir"?


Anyways, I'm off to dance the Kochari at an international dance festival. Wish me luck! :D

(www.garnidance.com)

[Che_Ka]

Honestly, I think you have issues with reading critically and making logical conclusions from what others have said. Oh, and of course, you lack the ability to separate reason from emotion.

I'm sure I am just as amazed as the rest of the readers that, in that last post, you have rehashed the same ideas and arguments -- ideas and arguments that are supposed to counter things that I have said or implied or even thought. Except, I never said or implied or thought any of those things.

You keep going round and round in circles. Consider my advice, and good luck.

I love Armenian!

[Che_Ka]

Dants: LOL!! Good luck! Ngarneruh gu sbasenk.

[Crimson Glow]

I'm sure I am just as amazed as the rest of the readers that, in that last post, you have rehashed the same ideas and arguments -- ideas and arguments that are supposed to counter things that I have said or implied or even thought. Except, I never said or implied or thought any of those things.

Yes......quite a FEW members on AC Forums have that issue....

*scratches chin, and walks away*

[nunechka]

i wish you the same che-ka and diar...

the song sharjir isnt aram asatryan's someone else wrote that song... i dont know who, but he does a good rendition...

[Baron Dants]

It's a direct translation of a turkish song.

[Baron Dants]

Oh, and our dancing was kick a$$. There were Bulgarian, Russian, Spanish and Québécois dancers, but I can humbly say that we were the best of em all.

On their way out of the hall, many of the members of the troop who weren't dancing, but had come to watch overheard the members of the audience saying things like "oh, the Armenians were clearly the best" and "Who knew Armenian dances were so entertaining" and so on.

:D

[Che_Ka]

Hargav! :)

Bravo dghas. Mishd partsr bahe Ho-Hi-Ta...no wait, hay anoonuh. hee hee. :)

(haydni e vor oogheghs choor gu gdrigor?? vaghuh ardoo had mun al knootyoon oonim. :( that'll be 2 down, 3 to go.)

[Baron Dants]

Mi khentatsner indzi ha...ho hi ta, mo hi ta, yevayln.

Lavakuyn maghtankners yegogh knootyoonneroot hamar. Yes al knootyoon oonenaloo em ays shapat havanapar, payts deghyag chem. :(

[Che_Ka]

Kidtsa te shad bidi havneir im ayt "slip of the tongue"-in. lol ;)

Shad shnorhagal em koo azniv maghtankneroot hamar. Nmanabes im maghtankners g'ooghargem tebi Canada. Payts deghiag ches mu? Ham knootyoon bidi das, ham al deghiag ches...anhavadali pan... *big grin*

[Baron Dants]

Ge neres, esadz-t polorovin chi hasgtsa vorovhedev vorosh par me kordzadzetsir vor hsdagoren hayeren cher.

Inch vor e...dzoor nsdink, shidag khosink..as CEGEP esvadz-en aytkan tsantsratsank vor al shad chem mdahokvadz knootyoon mnootyoonneroo masin. Miayn ays mi kani shapatn al togh antsni vor verchabes hamalsaran hasnim, ou verch!

Yes vazem tebi angoghin.

Kisher pari!

[nunechka]

is it possible for people to have their personal conversations through the great and wonderful PM system that is established here? ohh probably not considering the people who are talking are the bosses of all that is armenian... and that includes the armenianclub forum...

i thought this was an Armenian Slang and Idiom thread? do I have that wrong? did i read it incorrectly? let me see........ umm... nope... i read it correctly, and my memory had not failed me... please take your personal kiss arses to the PM route, this thread is for Armenian slangs and idoms (not idiots)...

[nunechka]

bari gisher yev louise bari...

Haaaazzziv prtsank...

[Thai-Samurai]

here's the latest hip slang from Armenia,

call anyone you see "hopar" and then force them to drink shots of vodka. A good way to make friends.

[Baron Dants]

is it possible for people to have their personal conversations through the great and wonderful PM system that is established here? ohh probably not considering the people who are talking are the bosses of all that is armenian... and that includes the armenianclub forum...

i thought this was an Armenian Slang and Idiom thread? do I have that wrong? did i read it incorrectly? let me see........ umm... nope... i read it correctly, and my memory had not failed me... please take your personal kiss arses to the PM route, this thread is for Armenian slangs and idoms (not idiots)...

If you look at those conversations, most of them have Armenian slangs and weird sayings in them, making them very related to the topic at hand.

You sure are very arrogant for someone who has absolutely nothing to offer.

[winoman]

b nice u 2

[Baron Dants]

Fine, I'll ignore her from now on. Sorry. :(

Eh Che Ka, nakhajashi hamar inch gerar aysor?




Vorosh mege hima jnnelen bidi bayti. :laugh:

[nunechka]

who is the arrogant one... you are pathetic... anamot, anshnork, anhamest, baroyakanits otar yev zrveats...

you are ignorant... there is no hope for you, asdvats ir yerese dartsrel e yeznits... you poor thing... just dont get your drool all over the key board...

[Baron Dants]

Anhamest and anshnork you say? Coming from the person who qualified Arevmdahayeren as a village dialec, and who still, for God knows what deranged reason, claims that we called Arevelahayeren inferior?

I'll just let the burden of proof speak for itself.

Moooooooooving on to saner grounds...

"Anush ella" is another cute saying. Literally translated, it would be "let it be sweet". :)

[Crimson Glow]

Yes! Just ignore it all, and....

DANCE, Dants, DANCE!!! (sorry.... couldn't resist)

Man....there was one my dad used to use whenever we'd get a call from my grandparents (his side).

Mendz maires "Inch bes ek?"
Hayres "Bombayi bes"

....wtf??? :confused:

[Che_Ka]

Crimson: OMG "Bombayi Bes"!!!!! :) My cousins in Haleb use that all the time.

Pear: Walla ays ardva nakhajashs shad barz er. Meg moz mun er yeghadz cheghadzuh. Isg toon? Hajis deghegatsoor zis ampoghch orva untatskin koo geradzneroot masin. *hreshdagi jbid*

OMG you know you'll have me laughing on the floor everytime you use "jnnil" hahaha Jinen vsdah em bayter mnatser e arten.

heyyy I just thought of another word you probably know and use! "halbat" -- meaning "of course." gu kordadzek took? trkeren e terevs.

[Baron Dants]

looooooool, halbat menk miayn gadagi hamar ge kordzadzenk. Khoshis goo ka. Meymn al Heraldeh. Mer paregam Bolsahay endaninkere dzaghreloo hamar hajeli parer en. :) Anshooshd, it's all in good fun.

Yes ays ardoo miayn mi kani bskuyt gera (funny word, lol). Pan me glleloo khatrin perans tri.

[Crimson Glow]

Crimson: OMG "Bombayi Bes"!!!!! :) My cousins in Haleb use that all the time.

Pear: Walla ays ardva nakhajashs shad barz er. Meg moz mun er yeghadz cheghadzuh. Isg toon? Hajis deghegatsoor zis ampoghch orva untatskin koo geradzneroot masin. *hreshdagi jbid*

OMG you know you'll have me laughing on the floor everytime you use "jnnil" hahaha Jinen vsdah em bayter mnatser e arten.

heyyy I just thought of another word you probably know and use! "halbat" -- meaning "of course." gu kordadzek took? trkeren e terevs.

Ok, my Armenian is probably pretty horrible, but here goes....

Votch, as pare chem lsats. Menk "of course-in" hamar "hargav" gsank.

"Pande gnats?"
"Hargav! Inch ouzoum es? Martin spanets!"

.....Ok, that was a graphic example, but you get the idea....

Vochar "jnnil" lsadzem. Chem gider inch asele ais pare. :confused:

Hope that made sense. My dad's not Halebtsi, so that's why I never understood where the hell he got that damn phrase from.

[nunechka]

and all the words i posted were not good, or funny? or maybe they didnt fit in your little head... i see there is always something wrong with arevelahayeren slangs and idioms, but the word like bombayi bes, which i have heard and i love it and i think its really funny, nonetheless i didnt hear an out cry of the armenian police (che-ka and diar) about that word, well actually any other word that they didnt already know, but which is not in armenian...

apperantly we (people from armenia), our slangs, idioms, sayings, pros, etc... are not correct, and there was a need for che-ka to argue with me about it for days... and when it comes to words that you say that are obviously not armenian, well thats ok, because you said it, so it doesnt matter...

i didnt make up the fact that you did in fact call Arevelahayeren inferior... you said that it is incorrect and that the this is the reason why your precious ignorant brain wont accept it... you did say it... and then you attempted to back off by saying, i didnt really say that, if you couldnt tell i was being sarcastic, or "i actually ment something else"... i didnt pull it out of thin air like the grammer of WA, I READ IT IN YOUR POST... you specifically said, "EA is in fact not real armenian, that rather it is soviet armenian" which implied means, it is BS, i am not from another planet, as it may seem that way to people who havent been told the truth to their face (che-ka and diar), and i read your posts and thats exactly what i have gotten from you (specifically che-ka and not diar), diar you started to insult me right off the bat, i guess you are protecting your friend che-ka... thats fine...

jnnil - now where is the armenian police? che-ka, calling che-ka... where are you? arent you going to come and tell this person that what they are saying is not armenian, and therefore doesnt belong to this thread like you did for me? ohhh wait a minute, it is WA... oh it may be arabic and we all know that THAT is armenian... or maybe it isnt, and che-ka just happens to be especially hostile to EAs... nevermind che-ka, it is safe to say words in persian, turkish, and arabic, (as long as they are not coming from EA) BUT what i have learned from you is that saying words in EA, well thats just not acceptable, it is soviet armenian, and thats not good...

got it... thanks capitan!

according to che-ka armenians in armenia do not speak armenian, rather they speak soviet armenian, and if thats the case then i should go tell my parents off for moving back to armenia and having me there, SHAME on them... now if i can just get some information about how i can covert myself to a WA, and become a true real armenian, i'd really appreciate it... you have really OPENED my eyes, and now i see the correct path... WOW!

[CatWoman]

is it possible for people to have their personal conversations through the great and wonderful PM system that is established here?

NO... I like the way they talk... too cute to be on pm! :D
I'm actually getting good at it, now I understand every single word they say! I found out today, my dad's second cousins are Arevmedahay... all the siblings are from Beirut! Interesting... (wait don't bash me, I know you guys are from Haleb lol)

PS I sense a "thread closed" coming... :p

[nunechka]

i wanted to compile all the posts that che-ka made that were inflamtory and i realized that there was a common thread - if you will - about your posts mr or ms... you say one thing and turn around and say the opposite all the time, i just dont have the time or patience for you...

you said "EA is not incomplete, but it doesnt have authentic spelling and grammer" come on... you can see the illogic there... or when you said "WA overclaim their armenianness becuase they were descendents of the survivors of the genocide, and that they lived in other countries" the second part i totally get, and never said anything about but BUT BUT! when i replyed to the first part about the genocide and how we are also survivors, you "said ohh ya i know that" well if you know that then why are you stating that as an exclusive trait of the WA. you dont directly say its exlusive, but the fact that you say it and follow it with an "ohh ya of course" means you did know it, but you didnt want to face truth, and you did only when i pointed it out to you, in extra nice terms...

anywho, this thread has officially died thanks to che-ka and me...

i love armenian slang, but it wouldnt be slang if it wasnt ridiculas, or for that matter made up... so whats better then making up a word, using another language...

and i'd like for you to remember this Nunechka: The war begins. lol
i never cared nor did i create this nor did i start this, and i didnt refute your "ka" or yaaoww" or whatever you wrote, but you refuted mine, and in fact you said it was a war...

and i am the arrogant one?

[Baron Dants]

Nunechka, what are you saying?
Arevelahay slangs are great! I use them all the time...ba vonts and everything. I think you're getting too carried away, and have grossly disfigured what I was saying.

Did I say that I don't approve the new Eastern Armenian SPELLING? Yes. But many arevelahays also did not approve of that spelling, so it's not like I'm being anti-Eastern Armenian or anything. I just think it's best for the language (no matter the dialect) to keep the original spelling. The one used by Apovian and all.

That still does not equate to being a criticism of Eastern Armenian. Far from it. As I've said all the time, both dialects are beautiful, but that does not mean that we can't admit that both now have their particular flaw (The new spelling for Eastern Armenian, the blurring of the pronounciation of many consonants in Western).

And if I "insulted" you, it's because of your allegations that Western Armenian was nothing more than a village dialect, and your constant allusions to that assumption.

[Che_Ka]

i didnt make up the fact that you did in fact call Arevelahayeren inferior... you said that it is incorrect and that the this is the reason why your precious ignorant brain wont accept it... you did say it...

Prove it.

and then you attempted to back off by saying, i didnt really say that, if you couldnt tell i was being sarcastic, or "i actually ment something else"... i didnt pull it out of thin air like the grammer of WA, I READ IT IN YOUR POST... you specifically said, "EA is in fact not real armenian, that rather it is soviet armenian"

Delusional Nunechka strikes again! Please find that quote.

And dear Lord! "I didn't pull it out of thin air like the grammar of WA" -- I never insulted or put down the grammar of EA. I have no reason to! It is a beautiful counterpart to WA. You are so misguided. If you knew anything about Armenian language's history, you would know that I was (and still am) against the SPELLING SYSTEM used by the Republic of Armenia. The spelling system has NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING to do with the grammar of EA. Someone get me a tranquilizer...kriz bidi antsnim...

which implied means, it is BS, i am not from another planet, as it may seem that way to people who havent been told the truth to their face (che-ka and diar), and i read your posts and thats exactly what i have gotten from you

Just because that's what your delusional brain got from what I said doesn't mean that that is what I actually wrote. You have once again proven that you cannot read critically.


you said "EA is not incomplete, but it doesnt have authentic spelling and grammer"

Find that quote.


come on... you can see the illogic there... or when you said "WA overclaim their armenianness becuase they were descendents of the survivors of the genocide, and that they lived in other countries" the second part i totally get, and never said anything about but BUT BUT! when i replyed to the first part about the genocide and how we are also survivors, you "said ohh ya i know that" well if you know that then why are you stating that as an exclusive trait of the WA. you dont directly say its exlusive, but the fact that you say it and follow it with an "ohh ya of course" means you did know it, but you didnt want to face truth, and you did only when i pointed it out to you, in extra nice terms...

*sigh* I just...I don't know anymore. I laid this out nice and clearly for you last week. Just because I say "Americans are nice because they live in a big country and because they are capitalists" it doesn't mean that people from other countries aren't from a big country or aren't capitalists. Similarly, just because I said Western Armenians overclaim their Armenianness because they were descendants of the Genocide and because they have lived outside the homeland doesn't mean that no other Armenians were desendants of the Genocide or that no other Armenians live outside the homeland. It doesn't make them "exclusive" traits of WAs; it merely tells the REASONS that WAs "overclaim" Armenianness. Once again, you seem to have trouble with critical reading.

As for the rest of your ramblings, I won't bother with them, as they are all "arguments" based on misconceived and false premises. Good day, hon!

[Che_Ka]

Catwoman: Thank you! The reason Dants and I are posting those very "fob" Western Armenian comments here is because they directly relate to the topic of the thread. I'm glad somebody got the idea! lol

Hey, no offense taken. All of those Beirutsis are Halebtsis in truth and at heart. lol

[nunechka]

you two are nothing more then pathetic loosers as far as i am concerned... considering the fact that you have done nothing but put me down for accepting my armenian and loving my language...

by the fact that all of your posts attack me on a personal basis, should tell you that i am only defending myself and my country from poeple like you who think that a dialect is a language... wake up and smell that coffee and yes maybe you do need a tranqualizer... in armenia there are MANY! accents and dialects, but in school we are taught armenian the proper way... there is no such thing as soviet spelling or whatever that means... you can say it as much as you want, it is because of ignorance why this type of thinking still goes on... YOU wish you were taught ABOVIAN type of armenian... you are not... WA is not exactly how ABOVIAN wrote.

anywho, i wrote that post as a "shaking hands" post, but that is not good enough for the BIG headed WA che-ka and diar....

I will never back down and give into any of your BS, i think that armenians that do that are stupid, they are missing the point, that a dialect can be very different from the actual literary language, and for example i have a Yerevantsi accent... and another person from my family who is not from Yerevan, does not speak the same way, but we were all taught the same thing in school...

the reason why, for example, i can understand all of WA writing and speaking, etc... is because we were taught all of armenian not just one part... the Armenian that is taught in Armenia is full and complete, I have the best of both worlds because my education didnt limit me like yours did. like you said "i never heard EA until i was invited to a friends b-party", etc...

so what, i had never heard it either, but i didnt have a problem switching to what i was taught in school in armenia to help me understand... that is the DIFFERENCE between WA schools and EA schools... do you see my point?

EA - teach ALL
WA - teach only WA

anywho, like i said, i tried to compile your posts, and you did say it, it was either your first response or your second response... i am not going to do it because i have a life... it was taking too long, everything was too important to cut out, and the post would've been a whole page long...

you should not blame me for your memory loss, just go and reread some of the things you said... but this time pretend you cannot read your mind, or more like, put yourself in another persons shoes reading your posts, because i sure as hell cant read your mind, and i can only read your posts... here is an example (completly not related to this post) of what inferring or reading someons mind means...

person 1: I am 6 feet and 3 inches tall and you are 5 feet and 4 inches tall

- what can we infer from this: that person 1 is taller then the other person. right? it isnt directly said, but we can tell from the text.
- how you expected me to read your mind: you wanted me to know that person 1 was german and the other person was japanese and so thats why person 1 is taller. but i couldnt know that if you didnt write it...

that is how simple a conversation is, i am not going to think you have the best intentions, or any intentions at all, after all you are calling me names and then expecting me to respect you? thats crazy... dont insult me and i wont insult you back.

another pattern that i have notice from che-ka posts is that in almost every one of your posts, you have gone back and edited your post... what is it my dear, what are you afraid of saying to me? PM me about it... tell me what it is...

[Baron Dants]

Nune...maybe you should do some research about the topic of "Soviet spelling". Ever heard of Hrachya Ajarian?

While you're at it, also conduct a research about the birth of the grammatical rules of both Eastern and Western Armenian. Western Armenian is not only a regional dialect. It has its own set of established rules and everything.



On the other hand, why do I still bother? You're just going to call me an idiot now anyways, right?


By the way, I still don't know what you're talking about when you say that the Armenian you learn is complete, while ours is incomplete. I've had no problem with Eastern Armenian in my life.

[nunechka]

look diar, the fact is that when WA were first faced with not understanding EA, they made up this BS, and fed it to you... everyday they did it more and more, and now finaly there is this belief that there exists something as ridiculas as this...

all of this is useless... there is no reason for you to continue this faslehood... i am thru with this topic and your incoherent brain...

no no, the fact is that you have called me those names first and i just hand them back to you...

maybe you are the first person on this planet who is WA and can comprehend EA as well as any EA person... I HAVE NEVER met a WA person who did... congrats you are the first person...

while most of my friends have been WA, they needed me to translate my armenian for them, i speak very clearly, i dont studder, or slurr, they just didnt know what the words for cerntain things were in armenian, even though they had been going to armenian school here... i had to teach them... and they had no problem after that, as a matter of fact they learn certain proper armenian vocabulary from me... and i learned some from them... i was never exposed to it, but when i found out i didnt lash out at them, like you are lashing out at me... i learned and moved on... get me wrong, they didnt lash out at me either, IT IS YOU TWO! who have the attitude problem...

I am going to write this out one more time for those who are as slow as diar
in ARMENIA! they teach all ARMENIAN!
in WA schools in the US, etc... ONLY teach WA.

HENCE the misunderstandings and incomprehention of the EA dialect, written and spoken vocabulary, spelling, etc...

DO YOU UNDERSTAND ENGLISH? ok, now if you didnt quite get what that means, i am saying that in ARMENIA! they teach a type of ARMENIAN in school that allows armenians students to UNDERSTAND, READ AND WRITE ALL forms of ARMENIAN! but in WA schools, in the US, etc... THEY ONLY TEACH WA...

HENCE I UNDERSTAND WA CLEARLY, But WAs dont understand EA clearly...

maybe you should back off, and read my posts...

again for those that are extra slow like diar - IN ARMENIA! they TEACH ARMENIAN! that is COMPLETE! because they dont just teach a dialect! OK! they teach ARMENIAN in its complete form! they teach us WA, EA, SA, NA [which dont exist, but im saying for exaggeration/emphasis] ... OK!?!?!?!?!?!? SO! since the WA schools dont do that, and not only do they not do that, they "translate" armenian into WA.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME? do you need me to slow it down even more?

[nunechka]

i got another one:

"yepel, tapel" literaly it means to cook and to through away, however it is used often in a sexist manner to ask the parents of the bride to be if their daughter is good around the house, so they say "Dzer aghchikeh yepel tapel gidi?"

even though it is used that way, i say we should make it an effort to ask about the male counter part... "isk dzer dghan yepel tapel gidi?, te minan udel khosal gidi?" LOL! :laugh:

(for those who cannot read armenian: i said the same thing but asked about the son, and then i added, or does he only know how to eat and talk?)

[nunechka]

Yet another one:

"kare pexxxxset tapetsir?" means "did you get rid of the rocks off your lap (usually skirt etc..) which is said to mean "are you finally giving in?"

my mother was telling me about my brother and his wife and how they were having a fight, and that my brother finally stopped fighting with her and they went to visit her parents because he wanted to "make it up to her," so my mom said to my brother "kare pexxxxset tapir?" meaning so you finally got rid of your attitude... lol


unless someone can explain it better, please do so, but thats the best i can do...

[Baron Dants]

One of the best proverbs in Armenian..

"Shoone ge haché, karavane ge kalé"

[Che_Ka]

you two are nothing more then pathetic loosers as far as i am concerned... considering the fact that you have done nothing but put me down for accepting my armenian and loving my language...

Oh, is that all you did? Did you forget calling Western Armenian a "village dialect" and stating that the grammar used by Western Armenian appeared from the air. With ideas like that, I'm surprised you were able to have WA friends without disrespecting their dialect.

in armenia there are MANY! accents and dialects, but in school we are taught armenian the proper way... there is no such thing as soviet spelling or whatever that means... you can say it as much as you want, it is because of ignorance why this type of thinking still goes on...

You've said this many times now, and not one shred of support for your thesis that there is no such thing as Soviet spelling.

anywho, i wrote that post as a "shaking hands" post, but that is not good enough for the BIG headed WA che-ka and diar....

If that was truly a "shaking hands" post, I would have responded much differently.

I will never back down and give into any of your BS, i think that armenians that do that are stupid, they are missing the point, that a dialect can be very different from the actual literary language, and for example i have a Yerevantsi accent... and another person from my family who is not from Yerevan, does not speak the same way, but we were all taught the same thing in school...

the reason why, for example, i can understand all of WA writing and speaking, etc... is because we were taught all of armenian not just one part... the Armenian that is taught in Armenia is full and complete, I have the best of both worlds because my education didnt limit me like yours did. like you said "i never heard EA until i was invited to a friends b-party", etc...

so what, i had never heard it either, but i didnt have a problem switching to what i was taught in school in armenia to help me understand... that is the DIFFERENCE between WA schools and EA schools... do you see my point?

EA - teach ALL
WA - teach only WA

ONCE AGAIN, you have completely disregarded my points. Armenian schools in Armenia exist in an Armenian atmosphere, where the language is alive and thriving, with various thriving dialects, etc. (Western) Armenian schools in the Diaspora exist in a foreign atmosphere, where the language -- for all intents and purposes -- is either stagnant or dying. There are no living dialects of Western Armenian. Everybody speaks and learns ONE standard dialect. What you learn in school is also what you hear at home which is what you read in the newspaper and in books. You do not hear any other dialect, ever -- unless you have the opportunity to hear an old dialect that your grandparent might remember. Nobody in my family, whether they live in the US, France, or Syria speaks any differently than I do. Why? Because, with the exception of the slightly different Bolsahay dialect and the 3000 people in Anjar, Lebanon who have kept their native dialect, there is only one way to speak Western Armenian today. Do you see the difference now?

It has nothing to do with what we were taught in school. For the millionth time, half of our time in Armenian class was spent reading Eastern Armenian literature. It's easy to understand it when you read it. But when you have never heard the dialect -- and more importantly, when you haven't ever heard ANYONE speak Armenian in any other way than the standard Western Armenian, then ANY OTHER DIALECT will sound weird and be difficult to understand. Even back in high school, when we read it, I understood all of the EA literature perfectly fine, but when I heard it -- it was like another language. But for Armenians in Armenia, where you are used to hearing Armenian spoken in various different ways, Western Armenian becomes just another one of these various dialects.

In my most civil tone, do you see where I am coming from? I honestly just want to know whether you understand what I am saying. Because honestly, with no offense, I honestly don't think Armenians from Armenia truly understand the difference between being Armenian in Armenia and being Armenian in the Diaspora.

anywho, like i said, i tried to compile your posts, and you did say it, it was either your first response or your second response... i am not going to do it because i have a life... it was taking too long, everything was too important to cut out, and the post would've been a whole page long...

I'm asking for one quote.

another pattern that i have notice from che-ka posts is that in almost every one of your posts, you have gone back and edited your post... what is it my dear, what are you afraid of saying to me? PM me about it... tell me what it is...

That's right. I correct spelling errors, grammatical errors, I try to make my points clearer, and I try to revise my harsher statements.

[Baron Dants]

Jans...Asddzo sirooyn, toon kezi mi hoknetsner.

As khosagtsootenen boghos bedros cheller. (haha, shad khoshis goo ka ad mege).


Im kich arachva kradz asatsvadzk-s garta, ou mortsir sa pane...

[CatWoman]

okay lets see if I can do this...

Che ka: herik e, mi sharoonakergor...

Nune: ara cheberzar?

:rolleyes:

[Baron Dants]

okay lets see if I can do this...

Che ka: herik e, mi sharoonakergor...


:rolleyes:


Herik e, mi sharoonager.

The gor is unnecessary here. Well, it's unnecessary everywhere, but you get my point. :D

[nunechka]

i am a girl... catwoman

[nunechka]

Oh, is that all you did? Did you forget calling Western Armenian a "village dialect" and stating that the grammar used by Western Armenian appeared from the air. With ideas like that, I'm surprised you were able to have WA friends without disrespecting their dialect.

and did you forget that you called Eastern Armenian soviet armenian?


You've said this many times now, and not one shred of support for your thesis that there is no such thing as Soviet spelling.

apparently you are still on your tranqualizer... thats ok my dear... you have no support for it being a soviet anything, all those websites were poltical tools for brainwashing you... all political nothing factual...

If that was truly a "shaking hands" post, I would have responded much differently.

ya it was, the fact that i said that we have ruined this thread with this nonsense (and i did say that in the very beginnning of this argrument, immidiately after you told me that you were ready for a "war" with me.

ONCE AGAIN, you have completely disregarded my points. Armenian schools in Armenia exist in an Armenian atmosphere, where the language is alive and thriving, with various thriving dialects, etc. (Western) Armenian schools in the Diaspora exist in a foreign atmosphere, where the language -- for all intents and purposes -- is either stagnant or dying. There are no living dialects of Western Armenian. Everybody speaks and learns ONE standard dialect. What you learn in school is also what you hear at home which is what you read in the newspaper and in books. You do not hear any other dialect, ever -- unless you have the opportunity to hear an old dialect that your grandparent might remember. Nobody in my family, whether they live in the US, France, or Syria speaks any differently than I do. Why? Because, with the exception of the slightly different Bolsahay dialect and the 3000 people in Anjar, Lebanon who have kept their native dialect, there is only one way to speak Western Armenian today. Do you see the difference now? It has nothing to do with what we were taught in school. For the millionth time, half of our time in Armenian class was spent reading Eastern Armenian literature. It's easy to understand it when you read it. But when you have never heard the dialect -- and more importantly, when you haven't ever heard ANYONE speak Armenian in any other way than the standard Western Armenian, then ANY OTHER DIALECT will sound weird and be difficult to understand. Even back in high school, when we read it, I understood all of the EA literature perfectly fine, but when I heard it -- it was like another language. But for Armenians in Armenia, where you are used to hearing Armenian spoken in various different ways, Western Armenian becomes just another one of these various dialects.

once again you have missed my point... why is it that you cannot read my post? you are telling me that the reason why people dont hear the EA dialect is because there is no one that speaks it. OK i got that the first time, my response to that is that IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT THE DIALECT IS! IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT THE ACCENT IS! THE SCHOOLS IN ARMENIA! TEACH ALL OF IT!, the problem isnt your accent or your dialect, its the fact that if you were schooled in armenia you would understnad all types of armenian, while being schooled in WA school in the US you dont, EVEN THOUGHT THERE IS THE OPPORTUNITY for you do be schooled in proper full and complete armenian, the WA stuborn schools and POLITICIANS do not allow it... i know why, do you? i know why they dont like the government of armenia, I DONT LIKE THEM EITHER! but i am not going to deprive myself of ARMENIAN! LANGUAGE! because my political beliefs direct me in a different direciton... dont you understnad that after the Severs trial the political parties in armenia and the diaspora didnt like each other because they screwed each other areses and ever since then the WA diaspora has had an indirect mission to prove that we dont exist, that we are not armenian enough, so you OVER claim your armenianness as if we were not descendents of survivers too, as if we didnt have to face turmoil... you are really SLOW! on the uptake here... AGAIN! my dear we didnt cover our eyes in ARMENIA! on the WA dialect thats why it isnt strange or foreign to us, but you did. WA did it. thats why even TODAY! when you know this exists now you all make up sh!t about how its inauthentic or incompelte or not original... WHATEVER!

In my most civil tone, do you see where I am coming from? I honestly just want to know whether you understand what I am saying. Because honestly, with no offense, I honestly don't think Armenians from Armenia truly understand the difference between being Armenian in Armenia and being Armenian in the Diaspora.

that is no excuse for taking our literature and "translating" it... do you understand that? i dont care about that particular point you keep saying, because i can tell you i know personally how it feels to be an armenian not living in armenia, guess where i've lived for the past 14 years? not in armenia! you dont seem to understand that I HAVE NEVER SAID ANYTHING AGAINST THAT! nor have i implied that in any shape or form, relax ok? MY WHOLE POINT! has been about the school systems AND since you decided to insult my language I HAVE DEFENDED myself...


I'm asking for one quote.
ok here it is
Why do we overclaim our Armenianness? WHY DO WE OVERCLAIM OUR ARMENIANNESS?! Um, hello?! Every single “Beirutsi Armenian” is a descendant of a Genocide survivor. And unlike Genocide descendants who were part of the Nerkaght Movement, none of the “Beirutsi Armenians” ever moved back somewhere that is called Armenia. They never again lived somewhere where the daily language was Armenian. EVERY DAY they have had to deal with assimilation. EVERY DAY they have had to live amongst odars. But, oh, inch meghk kordzer enk menk chankernis tapelov menk mer azkuh, mer lezoon, mer mshagoutyuh bahelou. Amot kezi.

The overwhelming majority of Western Armenians have little to no connection to the Eastern dialect.

THESE ARE THE REASONS WHY IT IS SO DIFFICULT FOR ‘US’ TO UNDERSTAND ‘YOU’ YET MUCH EASIER FOR ‘YOU’ TO UNDERSTAND ‘US.’

I don’t condone or understand making fun of Eastern Armenian.

Our Armenian teachers were, and continue to be, experts in the language. How dare you question their intelligence. Instead of appreciating the fact that they have dedicated their lives to teaching our precious language to a new Diaspora generation, you post such vile words. I can’t say it enough: amot kezi.

Now go educate yourself.

#1: by say amot indz, you are implying that i have no respect for the descendents of the survivers of the GENOCIDE! how dare you make such an inflamatory remark, I NEVER SAID ANYTHING LIKE THAT! and then after i replied to you about how we are in the same situation, i am a descendent too, you reply "i know that" then why did you say that in the first place as if that is the difference between WA and EA.

#2: NOW YOU ALL DO have connections and everyhitng else with ARMENIA! so why dont YOU all get off your high horses... now that you know that there is something else why aren't the schools teaching properly??? hmmm, me thinks its another political tool...

#3: OUR ARMENIAN! TEACERS were, and continue to be, experts in the language. How dare YOU! question their intelligence. Instead of appreciating the fact that they have dedicated their lives to teaching our precious language to US!, YOU! post such vile words. I can’t say it enough: amotu KEZIEH!


That's right. I correct spelling errors, grammatical errors, I try to make my points clearer, and I try to revise my harsher statements.

so NOW you decided to say that? and in about a day or two you will say "post it, i just want one post, prove it to me"

[nunechka]

and what about all the wonderful additions i have made to the idiom and slang list? those are not good enough to be on this thread considering the fact that i speak soviet armenian...

thank you thank you!

SHNORHAGALEM!

[nunechka]

diar - i thought it was "shoone k'hache kamin k'tane" or "shoone hachats kamin tarav"

i dont know which one... maybe we in EA didnt have karavans... lol! :laugh:

[Baron Dants]

I still don't understand how someone can completely miss a point after 12 pages.

And no one speaks Soviet Armenian, and we never implied that. There was, however, a new spelling devised in Soviet times (1920s), which was opposed by many EASTERN ARMENIAN linguists (and I have to say this once again: including Hrachya Ajarian, the best of them all). So this is not Western Armenians bashing Eastern Armenians. This is merely pointing out something that happened, and that had many negative impacts. If we were only pre-occupied with bashing Eastern Armenian (for God knows what reason), we wouldn't be so adamant in pointing out the pronounciation mistakes that have been naturalized in Western Armenian.

This is not "us" versus "them". We're all us anyways.

[Che_Ka]

Wow.

I can't bring myself to explain myself once again. How many times can somebody completely miss a point? After it has been basically chewed up into its various elements and force-fed to you. Quite fascinating, really.

Furthermore, in addition to your complete lack of critical reasoning and reading skills, you now illustrate your beliefs in crazy conspiracy theories. Excellent.

With that, I am done. As much as I want to refute the "points" in your latest post, I don't have the patience to write up a whole new post, only to have it misread by the likes of you. Come back to me when you've taken a course in reading comprehension.

[Baron Dants]

Eh bidi chses aysorva nakhajasht inch er?


Btw, what's up with the word "haba"? lol!

-As kazage bidi hakvis?
-Haba vormege?

or

-Vaghe tbrots bidi yertas?
- Eh haba!

[Che_Ka]

Ohhh, I've always wondered about "haba"!!! Do EAs use it too?

Another one that I thought of yesterday. You know how we add "ne" to verbs to replace the word "yerp" or "yerp vor" (when)? Like, "yerp verchasnes tasert, ayn aden grnas khaghal" becomes "tasert verchatsnesNE..."

So anyway, I realize we also add it to "che" -- as in, "chene." And we use it instead of "te voch." Like, "Ays shabiguh hakvim, te voch muisuh?" becomes "Ays shabiguh hakvim, chene muisuh?"

And my faaavorite is "chene che." lol Talk about redundant! haha

"Kovs goo kas, chene che??"

[Baron Dants]

Ah, I hate the "ne". I never use it. It really pisses me off for some reason. lol!

[Che_Ka]

uh oh, i'm afraid you'll smack across the face every 5 seconds if we were ever face to face then...lol

[Baron Dants]

Kitt peran-t meg gnem ha! :laugh:

[Che_Ka]

hos nayir dzo. kits, perans meg gu mnan ha.

omg the other day i totally used to the words "yezragatsootyoon" and "pool" (no, not the english word lol) -- haha. and my mom looked at me like "wtf?"

[Baron Dants]

hahaha, shad khosh. What do you guys usually say for "pool"?

Not to rub it in, but yezragatsootyoon is a regular at our house.

[Che_Ka]

Gu neres. :( lol I hadn't heard it since high school. (I think I've said, Armenian is my dad's 4th language, and my parents converse in Arabic...so yezragatsootyoon is big news for this house lol)

Noooo, I meant the Armenian word "pool" -- meaning phase/stage. But for swimming pool, we say avazan (although it should be loghavazan).

[spiral]

What language is "basein" in?

[Crimson Glow]

OH, I thought of some more, but I have to set the stage for this one. When my dad was big into wrestling (back when D*ck the Bruiser, and Andre the Giant were big), I used to crack up whenever the "good guy" would start making a "comeback". Like when Hulk Hogan would take a beating for 10 minutes, getting his ass kicked, and then he'd start doing that thing where he'd just stare the guy down, and rise another step with each blow, until he was fully upright. And then, as soon as he started delivering the punches back, and beating the "bad guy's" ass, my dad would start going nuts. He'd have to blurt out something with EACH punch, RIGHT as each one landed....

"Paktsur, mayre--...(well....you know the rest there =| )"
"Aiyaba!"
"Door vor gudas!!"
"Jibe!"
"Ayayayayay! Jampan gorsentsuts!!!"

I'd just stand there off to the side, trying to constrain my laughter.

[Baron Dants]

LOL! Door vor goo das!


For some reason, we say "door vor goo das, Gomidas!"

[Anonymouse]

Mayrigat nedem.

[Հարութ]

Eh bidi chses aysorva nakhajasht inch er?


Btw, what's up with the word "haba"? lol!

-As kazage bidi hakvis?
-Haba vormege?

or

-Vaghe tbrots bidi yertas?
- Eh haba!

i may be wrong, but հապա [haba] is the conversational form for the armenian word ապա [aba] (apa in ea), which means 'then' and some other things which i can't correctly translated into english (for example, ապա մի տեսնեմ՝ այդ ի՞նչ ես թաքցնում [apa mi tesnem, ayd inch es taqtsnum?] roughly means 'let me see, what are you hiding?')...

on the second thought, it could be [ha, ba], which just means 'yes, what else', 'yes, what', 'yes, of course', etc...

ba! adang paner...

[Հարութ]

I know that Armenians from different parts of the world use different dialects. But along with those dialects come idioms and slang. I've always been interested with this stuff (or, really - anything to do with Armenian language). So, tell me aaaallll about the words or sayings that you guys use in Armenian speech (and also their definitions ;) )

I'll start. :D

Ka - This is such a Beirutsi/Halebtsi thing! It's so versatile.

Ka, ha! -- Someone asks, "Isgabes meg jam devets doon hasnilt aysor?" and you would reply "ka, ha!" (meaning, "yeah man, for real!!").

Ha, ka... -- This changes meaning, it becomes more subdued. It means something like "yeah, man..." almost with a "who cares" attitude. Example: "Doon yertank?" "Ha, ka, yertank."

che, ka -- I looove this one. lol Kinda like "no man..." but with a hint of bewilderment or amazement.

ka -- Alone, it's used to mean something a little less than "wow." Example: "Ka, ays jasheru toon badrastetsir?"


[qa] is also common in Շիրակի բարբառ [Shirak barbarr], mostly used in the expression քա վայ [qa vay], meaning 'what the...'

[Հարութ]

hayde is definitely armenian

is arabic... means 'let's', 'go', 'let's go', etc... 'davay' in russian...

[Հարութ]

and if you have read armenian before you should know that the word "ham" for comaring things and for tasting things is defnitely armenian! "ham ays ban eh kuzem, hamel ayn bane" and "ham tesnem" or "shat hammov eh"


yes համ [ham] is armenian, meaning 'taste', but not the form you used in your first example... there it is a different ham...
though i'm not aware of its ethimology, it doesn't sound armenian to me.

[Baron Dants]

yes համ [ham] is armenian, meaning 'taste', but not the form you used in your first example... there it is a different ham...
though i'm not aware of its ethimology, it doesn't sound armenian to me.


Uh oh...not that can of worms again. :laugh:

Welcome to the forum, by the way!

[Հարութ]

the word "ashem" for looking at things


though աշել [ashel] is mostly used in Shirak barbarr, i wouldn't consider it a slang or idiom...
litterally means աչք դնել [achq dnel], նայել [nayel], to look

consider its cousin word, ունկնդրել [unkndrel], ականջ դնել [akanj dnel], լսել [lsel], to listen / to hear...

[Հարութ]

the word "hamagortsel" means to collaborate...
the word "hamajoghov" means conference
the word "hamakerpel" means comply with
the word "hamachap" means symetrical

....

HAM is ARMENIAN

you're right, i've never thought it in this context.

[Հարութ]

"Ham" meaning taste is Armenian.
"Ham/Hem" meaning both is probably non-Armenian.
The prefix "hama" is the equivalent of the Latin "co/con"

Three different "words!"

or you are right...

ok, i should probably read the entire thread before starting commenting...

[Che_Ka]

Harout: Good luck and have fun. ;) Pari yegar. I didn't know this board supports Armenian characters. This should be fun! :)

[Հարութ]

nerveri degh -- this really doesn't make sense if you think about it, given the context in which it is usually said.
What does it mean? Thanks!

litterally, nerve medicine...
nerver is armenianized russian for նյարդ [nyard], ջիղ [jigh], nerve...
means annoying... someone who gets on someone's nerves...

[Հարութ]

here are more slangs:

tsitsikt utem
...


i mean it quite literally when i use it... :)

[Հարութ]

What language is "basein" in?

russian

[Հարութ]

Welcome to the forum, by the way!

thanks

[Հարութ]

Harout: Good luck and have fun. ;) Pari yegar.

thanks

[Siamanto]

litterally, nerve medicine...
nerver is armenianized russian for նյարդ [nyard], ջիղ [jigh], nerve...
means annoying... someone who gets on someone's nerves...

Հարութ,
Thanks for the explanation...and Pari yegar! :)

As for the discussion about "ham," all I can say is "ham@ hod@ pakhav/yelav!" :)

[Հարութ]

Հարութ,
Thanks for the explanation...and Pari yegar! :)

welcome/thanks

As for the discussion about "ham," all I can say is "ham@ hod@ pakhav/yelav!" :)

yeah, figured out after further reading in the thread...

[nunechka]

diar and che i say the same thing back to you... i NEVER brought up anything about soviet armenian anything.. YOU DID! for no reason, just to insult me...

I am very confused as to WHY after 12 pages you two still dont understand the only and the most simple point i have been trying to make... it BOGGLES MY MIND! I AM IN AWE at your inablity to understand that YOU were the ones who said armenians have soviet spelling not me and you insulted my laguange by saying it isnt authentic! guess what? it is! get over it!

- and all those websites were potlical...

#1: my POINT again, (i guess i did have to slow it down ONE MORE TIME for diar and che) has been about the WA and EA schools and what they teach, and how come i understand and every bit of WA but you dont... your teachers had to "translate" armenian into WA so that you could understand it, but we didnt... WHAT IS SO HARD ABOUT THAT!?!? i have only had one thing to say, and that has been it... i have been swayed into other conversations because of you two, and i've had to defend my language because of you two... I WAS NOT!!!! the one who brought this up...

my dear che-ka apperantly you know exactly what you need... why dont you take your own advice and then come to me... i havent started this and i am not responsible for your actions... you are responsible for saying you started a "war" with me, you are responsible for making up some BS about how only the WA are the ones who are descendents from genocide survivors (AND THAT IS WHY you overclaim your armenianness) I NEVER SAID THAT! YOU DID!!! why are you so slow?

diar- #1 i never said anything bad about WA, UNTIL! that is you two started to talk about EA in that way... so i had to defend my language...
#2 if we were all "us" then you would never have made an EA person feel this way, in a way that makes me want to defend my country my language, etc... you begin all of this insanity (not you per se but more like che-ka and then you defended the inflamatory remarks and so you were put in the same category with her or him)...

i never divided WA from ARMENIANS you divided us into WA and EA... as if we are so different from each other, that we cannot belong to the same group...

I DIDNT!
YOU DID!

[nunechka]

Ohhh, I've always wondered about "haba"!!! Do EAs use it too?

Another one that I thought of yesterday. You know how we add "ne" to verbs to replace the word "yerp" or "yerp vor" (when)? Like, "yerp verchasnes tasert, ayn aden grnas khaghal" becomes "tasert verchatsnesNE..."

So anyway, I realize we also add it to "che" -- as in, "chene." And we use it instead of "te voch." Like, "Ays shabiguh hakvim, te voch muisuh?" becomes "Ays shabiguh hakvim, chene muisuh?"

And my faaavorite is "chene che." lol Talk about redundant! haha

"Kovs goo kas, chene che??"


refer to my FIRST or SECOND POST! i wrote that A LONG TIME AGO!

- just goes to show that, you dont read MY posts...
(the thief think the world is a thief) that one is in english but it fits right up your ally, since you keep acusing me of not reading your posts, apperantly YOU believe that since you know very well that you dont read MY posts...

[nunechka]

Harut, yes "ham hameh hanetsink ham el hoteh...

i am through with this... even though its in songs, poems, books, etc... its in my dictionary (EA that is), which may be the reason why some people dont know about it, althought they all use it... all the time... all of my WA friends family... its like the word we brought home with us... it was probably there in the first place but much like BIG words in armenian that not a lot of people use, we just didnt know it existed...

now i have to say that ashel has to be slang because it isnt proper language/grammer, etc... its a word used by half of my family all the time, and i can tell you that those that use it are either from Gyumri or Ashtarak...

anywho, welcome... and i love the armenian letters how can you use them??? i dont see it on the list of fonts...

its soooo much easier to read armenian in armenian letters... OHH! YA! :p

[nunechka]

i mean it quite literally when i use it... :)


amot kezi... lol! :laugh:

[Հարութ]

Harut, yes "ham hameh hanetsink ham el hoteh...

i am through with this... even though its in songs, poems, books, etc... its in my dictionary (EA that is), which may be the reason why some people dont know about it, althought they all use it... all the time... all of my WA friends family... its like the word we brought home with us... it was probably there in the first place but much like BIG words in armenian that not a lot of people use, we just didnt know it existed...

is the name համբո [hambo] also based on this համ [ham]? :D j/k

now i have to say that ashel has to be slang because it isnt proper language/grammer, etc... its a word used by half of my family all the time, and i can tell you that those that use it are either from Gyumri or Ashtarak...

can you please explain how you classify what's proper and what's imporper?
thanks

anywho, welcome...

thanks

[nunechka]

proper - taught in school
informal - not taught in school

hamo comes from Hambartsum (you knew that, as you knew your name Harut means to come to life from death - i.e. to reserect)... i am not sure what exactly "Hambartsum" means but just like any other armenian name it must have a deep meaning...

but i do recognize your sarcasm...

[Հարութ]

proper - taught in school
informal - not taught in school

well... they don't teach us words in school, do they? at least not all of the words...

hamo comes from Hambartsum (you knew that, as you knew your name Harut means to come to life from death - i.e. to reserect)... i am not sure what exactly "Hambartsum" means but just like any other armenian name it must have a deep meaning...

but i do recognize your sarcasm...

Համբարձում [hambartsum] is the logical next step after Հարություն [harutyun] :)

[Siamanto]

Harut, yes "ham hameh hanetsink ham el hoteh...

i am through with this...
Everybody,
Can we close this chapter with a "hampouyr?" :) And, in the future, more "hamperoutioun!" :)

*The devil tries to create more chaos*
Is "hamperel" derived from "ham" and "perel?" :)




[QUOTE=nunechka]
hamo comes from Hambartsum ... i am not sure what exactly "Hambartsum" means but just like any other armenian name it must have a deep meaning...
/QUOTE]

Ascension Day





Which day?


Forty days after Easter

Earliest Observance?


Fourth Century

Demographic Practice?


Catholics and Anglicans
[Siamanto: note the ignorance! :)]




mass_music

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Ascension Day commemorates the ascension of Jesus into heaven (Acts 1:6-11) following His crucifixion and resurrection. During the forty day period after His resurrection, He preached and intermingled with his apostles and disciples.

According to tradition, it was first celebrated in 68 A.D. however there is no written evidence of the Ascension Day feast until about 385. Today it is celebrated mostly by Catholics and Anglicans. It is one of the six holy days of obligation wherein mass must be attended.

[Baron Dants]

Nunechka: that I can talk about the current flaws of EA as well asthe current flaws of WA shows that I feel both belong to ME. If you felt threatened by a WA pointing out something about YOUR language, it shows that you have your own insecurities regarding Arevmdahays.

If you felt like you had to defend the Armenian language, from another Armenian...well...I guess it's my turn to be baffled.


Note: the flaw I am referring to still remains the spelling change of the 1920s. Will you at least acknowledge that such a change took place?

[Crimson Glow]

Alright, alright! Kulugh dareek!!

[Che_Ka]

Dants: So I pick up today's Asbarez (daily LA Armenian newspaper) from the mail, and what do I see on the front cover? An editorial titled "Yete an che, haba ov e?" The editorial goes on to use the word "haba" several times. Now unless editorials have different rules regarding the use of slang or non-Armenian words, I'm gonna venture to say "haba" is an actual Armenian word! lol

[Baron Dants]

And the plot thickens.

DN DN DNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN


Would't ooremn be a better fit there?

[Հարութ]

Is "hamperel" derived from "ham" and "perel?" :)


համոզված եմ՝ ոչ [hamozvats em, voch] :)
համենայն դեպս, կարող ես փորձել համոզել [hamenayn deps, karogh es portsel hamozel] :)

[Che_Ka]

Hmm, I liken "ooremn" to "therefore."

It's interesting, cause I always take a glance at the editorial, and it's always SO WELL-WRITTEN. Generally editorials take some liberty with the language; it reads more like a conversation than a written work. But this guy writes beautifully, in perfect, VJID! Armenian. So for him to use slang/foreign words wouldn't be acceptable. Hmmmmm. Gardzem jamanaguh yeger e Asbarezin namag mu ooghargel. lol

[Հարութ]

...
- Բարի աջողում, ուստա Փիսո,
Գլուխըս մըրսեց, ի սեր աստծո,
Ա՛ռ էս մորթին ու ինձ համար
Մի գդակ կարի գըլխիս հարմար:
Վարձիդ համար միամիտ մընա՛(*),
Համա-համա շատ չուշանա:
...

«Շունն ՈՒ Կատուն», Հովհաննես Թումանյան

what would you people say about this? :)

*interesting that this express, միամիտ մնա [miamit mna], meaning մի անհանգստացիր [mi anhangstatsir] 'don't worry', i have only heard in parskahay barbarr... but here Tumanian from Lori uses it...

[spiral]

I'd get such a kick out of Sevuk Ulik.



...and I thought miamit meant naive.

[Հարութ]

...and I thought miamit meant naive.

yes, it does.... but the expression 'miamit mna' (literally, stay naive) means 'hangist kats', 'mi anhangstatsir', stay calm, don't worry, etc...

[Siamanto]

*The devil tries to create more chaos*
Is "hamperel" derived from "ham" and "perel?" :)

համոզված եմ՝ ոչ [hamozvats em, voch] :)
համենայն դեպս, կարող ես փորձել համոզել [hamenayn deps, karogh es portsel hamozel] :)

Հարութ,
ես ալ համոզված եմ՝ թէ ոչ :)

I was just playing! Hence the comment *The devil tries to create more chaos* :)

[nunechka]

Everybody,
Can we close this chapter with a "hampouyr?" :) And, in the future, more "hamperoutioun!" :)

*The devil tries to create more chaos*
Is "hamperel" derived from "ham" and "perel?" :)




[QUOTE=nunechka]
hamo comes from Hambartsum ... i am not sure what exactly "Hambartsum" means but just like any other armenian name it must have a deep meaning...
/QUOTE]

Ascension Day





Which day?


Forty days after Easter

Earliest Observance?


Fourth Century

Demographic Practice?


Catholics and Anglicans
[Siamanto: note the ignorance! :)]


siamato, i mis wrote... i was resonding to harut and i wanted to say "HAMBO!" because thats what he asked... and i wasnt talking about hambartsum the name being related to easter... i said i dont know what it means and then i said it must have a deep meaning... LIKE! HARUTYUN (which means to come back from death)...

is that a bad thing to point out??? i repeated that did not know what necessarily hambartsum ment... like for example there are girls with the name "Makruhi" which means something that i know of, but i didnt know what hambartsum ment...

is what i said strange? :confused: i would think that you lack a basic reading skill... comprehension... i didnt say it was a day that was celebrated... I DIDNT SAY ANYTHING LIKE THAT? what is up with this forum? why dont people read?

:confused:

[nunechka]

համոզված եմ՝ ոչ [hamozvats em, voch] :)
համենայն դեպս, կարող ես փորձել համոզել [hamenayn deps, karogh es portsel hamozel] :)


AH HA! "hamenayn deps" i like that word, it directly shows that "ham en ayn" meaning "also that too" or "both that" etc...

further proves my point...

and che-ka, so you seem to change your mind so quickly, you read it in the asbarez (which i think is a great news paper) and you are convinced... no judgment, just a POINTING OUT! :rolleyes: that you think "ha ba" is now armenian... so quick arent you? ohh wait, its beacuse it wasnt an EA person who wrote that... thats why.. OHHHHHH! i get it :cool:

and diar- i did acknowledge that at that time (~1920s) armenians all over the world were not nice to each other... the Dashnagner (whom i love dearly) and the Hanrapentakanner... they had political reasons why they did things... HOWEVER! that was then, and since then [roughly or more then 40 years ago] EA schools in armenia didnt do this anymore... the fact is that they teach armenian perfectly... they teach it in a way that which is the mid point, so that if you wanted to read any type of armenian from any time in history, you could... in WA schools in the US, they still have not adopted this because they are stuborn and arrogant... they believe, like che-ka, that they are more armenian then I am (for example) as if i wasnt subject to the same things that she was... if and when they did screw each other over, when i started to go to school i went to an Armenian school in armenia (if you can believe that), because in armenia most schools were russian, and there were still some lingering French and German... but to have a school that was mainly armenian was new... we had problems but we are not stupid... in Armenia the education is there... however NOW we face the problems of bribery and ankark people... they take money from students, or since teachers get paid like the lowest paid janitor here (all relative prices of course) they just dont go to work... I was lucky... but my little cousins there are not...

we have other problems in our little country, but poeple like che-ka cant get their head out of their asses to see that we are not WA or EA but rather we are Armenian... and if we want to move forward like the xxxs did or what have you... then we cant be like her... we have to understand that WA schools in the US have NOT! on purpose, changed their way of teaching because, well i dont really know why... anywho, do you understand that????

[nunechka]

i see we have all turned to our precious dictionaries... and to the letter "H" and we are just writing sentences with all the "ham" words now... ha ha ha :laugh:

i like it!

[Հարութ]

siamato, i mis wrote... i was resonding to harut and i wanted to say "HAMBO!" because thats what he asked... and i wasnt talking about hambartsum the name being related to easter... i said i dont know what it means and then i said it must have a deep meaning... LIKE! HARUTYUN (which means to come back from death)...

is that a bad thing to point out??? i repeated that did not know what necessarily hambartsum ment... like for example there are girls with the name "Makruhi" which means something that i know of, but i didnt know what hambartsum ment...

is what i said strange? :confused: i would think that you lack a basic reading skill... comprehension... i didnt say it was a day that was celebrated... I DIDNT SAY ANYTHING LIKE THAT? what is up with this forum? why dont people read?

:confused:

what's up with you, lady?

[Հարութ]

Հարութ,
ես ալ համոզված եմ՝ թէ ոչ :)

I was just playing! Hence the comment *The devil tries to create more chaos* :)


համոզված եմ՝ ոչ [hamozvats em, voch]
համենայն դեպս, կարող ես փորձել համոզել [hamenayn deps, karogh es portsel hamozel]


:wave:

[Հարութ]

AH HA! "hamenayn deps" i like that word, it directly shows that "ham en ayn" meaning "also that too" or "both that" etc...


no :)

please refer back to your dictionary.

[nunechka]

ok, SOOOO you are telling me that "ham en ayn deps" doesnt mean "on the other hand?" or better put "also looking at it another way" or maybe "in comparison to another view"

i dont understand what i said that was not in armenian? what do you mean "what is up with you lady?" what is up with you?

[Հարութ]

ok, SOOOO you are telling me that "ham en ayn deps" doesnt mean "on the other hand?" or better put "also looking at it another way" or maybe "in comparison to another view"

here is another word (expression) in armenian that means the same thing (a little simpler version (more "modern"?)) as [hamenayn deps] and has the same "root". this should make it more clear what [hamenayn deps] means and how it is constructed.

ամեն դեպքում [amen depqum]...


i dont understand what i said that was not in armenian? what do you mean "what is up with you lady?" what is up with you?

:shaking head with smile:
you said you don't know what [hambartsum] means, siamato gave it to you... and you went hysterical... :confused:

[nunechka]

i guess i dont understand siamato's sarcasm...

and yes amen depkum is the same thing... that just goes to show that the Armenian language is very flexible and rich... we have so many ways of saying the same thing... for example "i love you"

- yes sirum em kez
- yez kez sirum em
- sirum em yes kez
- sirum em kez yes
- kez em yes sirum
- kez em sirum yes
- yes em kez sirum
- yes kez em sirum

i think thats the reason why Margaret Mead proposed that Armenian should be the international language because its PURE! its simple and you dont misunderstand things... for example in english i could say the word "object" and you dont know if im talking about to oppose something or a certain physical thing.

i love armenian more and more everyday...

[nunechka]

kar tgha - redention by Nune (ha!) lol! ;) Yeseyan [that is]
-take note of the idioms used in this beautiful song... :D

Incho yes kez siretsi, glkhis volor aretsir [why did i love you, you turned my head in circles] (the best i can do)
akh do ansirt kar tgha [Oh you hard (sturborn) boy without a heart]
incho seres maretsir? [why did you turn my love off] (for him obviously)
Gisher tserek andatar jampit k'ashem an jigyar [night and day, i look to your route (road or walking way) oh my dear]
Sirts g'oola amen or yezi tesnelou hamar [my heart cryies every day to see you]

Akh do ansirt kar tgha [Oh you hard (sturborn) boy without a heart]
Inchoo seres maretsir? [why did you turn my love off]
Gisher tserek andatar jampit k'ashem an jigyar
Sirts g'oola amen or yezi tesnelou hamar

seris boune bletsir [you broke the 'home?" of my love] (for him obviously)
atchkis kune pakhtserir [you took the sleep from my eyes]
Yerkum eyi bartradzayn [i use to sing loudly (proudly)]
Sokhak lezus maretsir (sokhak is a type of bird) [you turned my sokhak tongue off]
Gisher tserek andatar jampit k'ashem an jigyar
Sirts g'oola amen or yezi tesnelou hamar

akh do ansirt kar tgha
Inchoo seres maretsir?

Gisher tserek andatar jampit k'ashem an jigyar
Sirts g'oola amen or yezi tesnelou hamar

[nunechka]

offffff hokis hanetsik!

[Siamanto]

:shaking head with smile:
you said you don't know what [hambartsum] means, siamato gave it to you... and you went hysterical... :confused:

Հարութ,
Thank you for the comment! That is kind of you!
I may be wrong, but based on nunechka's reply, it seems to me that she thought that the annotation
"[Siamanto: note the ignorance! :)]" in


Demographic Practice?

Catholics and Anglicans
[Siamanto: note the ignorance! :)]


was about her! When it was obviously??? - at least, it seemed to me - about the line above it that suggest that only Catholics and Anglicans practice Ascension Day.



i guess i dont understand siamato's sarcasm...

What sarcasm? :confused:

[nunechka]

siamato i didnt understand you before... but since harut pointed it out to me, i got it... and sarcasm isnt negative, you could be making a sarcastic remark by making an assertion or joking...

[nunechka]

Khorodik morodik im yarneh

[Siamanto]

siamato i didnt understand you before... but since harut pointed it out to me, i got it... and sarcasm isnt negative, you could be making a sarcastic remark by making an assertion or joking...

nunechka,
I am extremely grateful that you took the time to explain the many aspects and meanings of sarcasm. Such possibilities never occurred to me in the past. I guess it is true that we learn something new every day!
I am positive that such novel - at least to me - perspectives will have an indelible and ever lasting impact on my views and readings.
Please accept my sincere gratitude!

Are we cool? :cool:

[nunechka]

Yeess! :)

[nunechka]

es incha katarvum?

voch mek chi uzum barrer avelatsni?

[Che_Ka]

haziv knnoutiunners hachoghoutyamp verchatsnem, ays echuh gu letsnem zanazan parerov, sireli nunechka.

[Anonymouse]

Ape che jogeenk es incha, karogha siraharvats pingvin es?

[nairi]

It's interesting how "asam" has turned into "asim" among some parskahays who have spent too much time outside of Iran. Like "zangim" and "gnatsim". Otherwise the -am ending is popular in other verbs too: aram, taram, siram, keram.

I have a theory on this... I think the -m comes from the imperative in Armenian, like "gnam, gam, asem, arnem, tam, etc.". This present tense use of -am and -em, has been extended to (or overgenerated in) the use of -am in the past tense for some verbs. So instead of "ara", they say "aram".

For other verbs, mostly those that end in -tsi, they either add -m to the -tsi, or replace -tsi by -im. So "gnatsim", but "asim".

Another possibility for -am is what I call truncation. They attach the auxiliary "am" in the present tense to the past tense main verb. So "tarel am" in the present tense becomes "taram" in the past tense.

They're very consistent in their use of -im and -am, which is very fascinating, because although it's wrong in standard Armenian, it is right in their own system!

[nairi]

Harut, nice to see you here :)

[nunechka]

haziv knnoutiunners hachoghoutyamp verchatsnem, ays echuh gu letsnem zanazan parerov, sireli nunechka.


ABBAOOOUWWW!!! i am "sireli" now... lol! :naughty:

as inch g'la gor? as inch norutyun e?

[Che_Ka]

chem imanoom, goutse im khighchuh shat shoot a neroom oo siraharvoom.

(i tried. lol)

[nunechka]

WOW! :eek: SWEET! jeeze louise! that was good... you are turning a tide unturned before and attempting new things...

ok ok... you are so cute... :D

;)