The Ottomans

[Eddo211]

Re: The Ottomans

Wasn't Ottoman etiquette just to send in some Kurds with sharp knives?

No....there are only so many throats you can cut by yourself, Kurds was a way to expedite (among other reasons). Same policy in Azerbaijan using their minority against Armenians.

[lampron]

Re: The Ottomans

The Ottoman architect Sinan (believed to have been Armenian), from the Wiki

According to contemporary biographer, Mustafa Sâi Çelebi, Sinan was born in 1489 (c. 1490 according to the Encyclopædia Britannica [3] and 1491 according to the Dictionary of Islamic Architecture [9]) with the name Joseph. He was born either an Armenian[10][11] or a Greek[12][13][14] in a small town called Aghurnas (present-day Mimarsinanköy) near the city of Kayseri in Anatolia (as stated in an order by Sultan Selim II).[15] One argument that lends credence to his Armenian background is a letter he wrote to Selim II in 1573, asking the Sultan to spare his relatives from the general exile of Kayseri's Armenian community to the island of Cyprus.[10][16] The scholars who support the thesis of his Greek background have identified his father as a stonemason and carpenter by the name of Christos (Greek "Χρήστος"), a common Greek name meaning Christ.[17][18] It is also probable that he had both Greek and Armenian relatives (from his paternal and maternal families) since both ethnic groups had large communities in the Kayseri area during that period. All that is certain is that they were of the Eastern Orthodox Christian faith, since the Ottoman archives of that epoch recorded only religion information about religion. The concept of ethnicity was irrelevant to the religion-based Ottoman Millet system.

Sinan (Joseph) grew up helping his father in his work, and by the time that he was conscripted would have had a good grounding in the practicalities of buildng work.[9] There are three brief records in the library of the Topkapı Palace, dictated by Sinan to his friend Mustafa Sâi Çelebi. (Anonymous Text; Architectural Masterpieces; Book of Architecture). In these manuscripts, Sinan divulges some details of his youth and military career. His father is mentioned as "Abdülmenan" or "Abdullāh" (Arabic عبد الله), meaning Servant of God and are anonyms for the Christian fathers of Muslim converts.

[edit] Military career
Mimar Sinan bust in Ankara
In 1512, Sinan was conscripted into Ottoman service via the devshirme system.[5][15] He went to Constantinople as a recruit of the Janissary Corps, and converted to Islam.[15] He was too old (over twenty-one years) to be admitted to the imperial Enderun School in the Topkapı Palace but was sent instead to an auxiliary school.[15] Some records claim that he might have served the Grand Vizier İbrahim Paşa as a novice of the Ibrahim Pasha School. Possibly, he was given the Islamic name Sinan there. He initially learned carpentry and mathematics but through his intellectual qualities and ambitions, he soon assisted the leading architects and got his training as an architect.[15]

During the next six years, he also trained to be a Janissary officer (acemioğlan). He possibly joined Selim I in his last military campaign, Rhodes according to some sources, but when the Sultan died, this project ended. Two years later he witnessed the conquest of Belgrade. He was present, as a member of the Household Cavalry, in the Battle of Mohács, led by the new sultan Suleiman the Magnificent. He was promoted to captain of the Royal Guard and then given command of the Infantry Cadet Corps. He was later stationed in Austria, where he commanded the 62nd Orta of the Rifle Corps.[15] He became a master of archery, while at the same time, as an architect, learning the weak points of structures when gunning them down. In 1535 he participated in the Baghdad campaign as a commanding officer of the Royal Guard. In 1537 he went on expedition to Corfu and Apulia and finally to Moldavia.[19]

During all these campaigns he had proven himself a trained engineer and an able architect. When the Ottoman army captured Cairo, Sinan was promoted to chief architect and was given the privilege of tearing down any buildings in the captured city that were not according to the city plan.[citation needed] During the campaign in the East, he assisted in the building of defences and bridges, such as a bridge across the Danube. He converted churches into mosques. During the Persian campaign in 1535 he built ships for the army and the artillery to cross Lake Van. For this he was given the title Haseki'i, Sergeant-at-Arms in the body guard of the Sultan, a rank equivalent to that of the Janissary Ağa.

When Chelebi Lütfi Pasha became Grand Vizier in 1539, he appointed Sinan, who had previously served under his command, Architect of the Abode of Felicity. This was the start of a remarkable career. It was his task to supervise the constructions and the flow of supplies within the Ottoman empire. He was also responsible for the design and construction of public works, such as roads, waterworks and bridges. Through the years he transformed his office into that of Architect of the Empire, an elaborate government department, with greater powers than his supervising minister. He became the head of a whole Corps of Court Architects, training a team of assistants, deputies and pupils.

[edit] Work
His training as an army engineer gave Sinan rather an empirical approach to architecture than a theoretical one. But the same can be said of the great Western Renaissance architects, such as Brunelleschi and Michelangelo.

Various sources state that Sinan was the architect of around 360 structures which included 84 mosques, 51 small mosques ("mescit"), 57 schools of theology ("medrese") 7 schools for Koran reciters ("darülkurra"), 22 mausoleums ("türbe"), 17 Alm Houses ("imaret"), 3 hospitals ("darüşşifa"), 7 aqueducts and arches, 48 inns ("caravansary"), 35 palaces and mansions, 8 vaults and 46 baths. Sinan, who held the position of chief architect of the palace, which meant being the top manager of construction works of the Ottoman Empire, for nearly 50 years, worked with a large team of assistants consisting of architects and master builders.

[GKB]

Re: The Ottomans

Of all of Armenia's neighbors and occupying powers, the Ottomans have probably had the greatest effect on Armenian mentality, psychology, way of life etc. Even now, on a given day, thousands of Armenians all over the world will tell each other 14th century Turkish folk philospher/homorist Nasreddin Hodja's wisecrack stories

In my opinion No other foreign people have influenced Armenian Life more than the
xxxish People.Armenian Conversion to Christianity had the Most Lastin influence.The
Ottomans with their genocide could not shake our Faith.We died with the Bible in our hands and never abandoned our Christian Belief ..Both in The old and the new tastemant.This is Unshakable power.

[lampron]

Re: The Ottomans

We died with the Bible in our hands and never abandoned our Christian Belief ..Both in The old and the new tastemant.This is Unshakable power.

It is easy to say that, when you don't have a yataghan pressed against your throat! Fact is, down the centuries tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of Armenians converted into Islam, not just during the genocide. Who can blame them? Also, the ottomans offered excellent career progression to those who became Muslims. Armenians are career minded people. The Ottoman empire was very powerful between around 1400 to 1700. Armenians have done well in foreign empires (Persian, Byzantine, Arab, Russian etc)

[lampron]

Re: The Ottomans

Shouldn't that be titled "ARMENIAN etiquette"? Wasn't Ottoman etiquette just to send in some Kurds with sharp knives?

Maybe. Armenian etiquette was probably based on Ottoman etiquette (minus sending someone with knives - Armenians had no political power and had none of the self-confidence that the ottomans had). Remember, like it or not the ottomans become role models. For centuries Armenians were like an island in an ottoman sea

[Eddo211]

Re: The Ottomans

We were warriors who became slaves.....not anymore.
Turkey's time will come, we have seen this many times with other invaders of our lands.

[lampron]

Re: The Ottomans

We were warriors who became slaves

correct

.....not anymore.

how? Armenian self-confidence is connected to membership of the CSTO. Ottoman slave mentality does not change overnight

Turkey's time will come, we have seen this many times with other invaders of our lands.

The Seljuk Turks arrived in the 11th century. Turks are unlike others, they have for some time had an absolute majority in Anatolia (even allowing for Kurds and others)- yes, through genocide, assimilation, conversion, but this is the result today . 900 years is a long time

[Eddo211]

Re: The Ottomans

how? Armenian self-confidence is connected to membership of the CSTO. Ottoman slave mentality does not change overnight

Turks still think in two dimensions.....Armenian diaspora and their mentality is the real threat to Turkey. Armenia has also regained its independence and won a war against the Turks in recent history. Time its not on Turkish side.

The Seljuk Turks arrived in the 11th century. Turks are unlike others, they have for some time had an absolute majority in Anatolia (even allowing for Kurds and others)- yes, through genocide, assimilation, conversion, but this is the result today . 900 years is a long time

Time is of no factor for ancient people who can never be assimilated or destroyed.....Turks should know this.

[lampron]

Re: The Ottomans

Turks still think in two dimensions.....Armenian diaspora and their mentality is the real threat to Turkey. Armenia has also regained its independence and won a war against the Turks in recent history. Time its not on Turkish side.

Armenians nearly lost the war in 1992 when some elements in Russia started supporting Baku. In 1992 how did the Armenian diaspora stop a potential disaster in Karabakh ?
Slaves don't believe in themselves. They are reliant on external support!

Time is of no factor for ancient people who can never be assimilated or destroyed.....Turks should know this.

The Turks say they are 7,000 years old, more ancient than Armenians!
Armenians assimilated in large numbers during the Ottoman empire.
Slaves have a very low opinion of other slaves. In the Ottoman empire Armenians were very disrespectful of other Armenians
Ottomans welcomed anyone who joined them and become Muslims. That is how they became stronger and stronger!

[Eddo211]

Re: The Ottomans

Armenians nearly lost the war in 1992 when some elements in Russia started supporting Baku.

Armenians won the war against all odds, that is what matters.....another thing that matters is that Armenians have always won against Turks in fair battle.

In 1992 how did the Armenian diaspora stop a potential disaster in Karabakh ?

One word....Will

Slaves don't believe in themselves. They are reliant on external support!

Armenians won because of men like Monte....Azerbaijan had all the external supports.

The Turks say they are 7,000 years old, more ancient than Armenians!

I believe them.....however it wasn't until Adena that raped a man that they were hatched into xxxkurts.

Armenians assimilated in large numbers during the Ottoman empire.

Armenians were slautered in large numbers in Ottoman Empire....Christianity and their strong culture maintained their identity.

Slaves have a very low opinion of other slaves. In the Ottoman empire Armenians were very disrespectful of other Armenians
Ottomans welcomed anyone who joined them and become Muslims. That is how they became stronger and stronger!

Yes, Turks are more cunning than any other race.....after all, they beat us with stolen Christian babies raised as Muslim warriors. Even though outnumbered and facing hoards of Borgs, they manage to maintain a Kingdom up to 14th century in a sea of evil.