The Ottomans

[lampron]

Re: The Ottomans

You cannot compare the two. One is based on monoculturalism the other is forced expansionism parasitic multiculturalism.

But empires are like that. Empire building has to be inclusive and empire builders recognize the need to bring in talented people from everywhere

The Ottomans could be cruel and parasitic...but the secret of their success is much more complex than about invading and looting!

What about Ottoman diplomacy? They could strike alliances with different Christian kings and rulers in order to achieve their objectives of the day.

If Armenia had built an empire, it would not have been achieved with hermits praying inside a cave!

[Artashes]

Re: The Ottomans

But empires are like that. Empire building has to be inclusive and empire builders recognize the need to bring in talented people from everywhere

The Ottomans could be cruel and parasitic...but the secret of their success is much more complex than about invading and looting!

What about Ottoman diplomacy? They could strike alliances with different Christian kings and rulers in order to achieve their objectives of the day.

If Armenia had built an empire, it would not have been achieved with hermits praying inside a cave!

The kings you speak of as well as the "diplomacy " you speak of we're for the benifit of the ruling class exclusively. There is no honor in either of them.
The search for honor and decency was non existent then as well as now.
The endeavor for "empire" is ludicrous .
Your praise of the powerful is grossly misguided.
To honor anyone because they are rich or powerful is to misplace honor and honorable conduct into the hands of the greed ridden and the bigots.
To be decent and strive to be honorable is greater than monetary wealth or ?power?
You can teach your children whatever you think you can get by with, but your your praise of the disgusting conduct of the turc and the elite that delt with them is disgraceful, dishonest, and truly reprehensible.
There was and is nothing good about "empire building" . You elevate criminality to a place of honor fraudulently.
Truly disgusting argument on your part.

[Azad]

Re: The Ottomans

But empires are like that. Empire building has to be inclusive and empire builders recognize the need to bring in talented people from everywhere

Agree, except as history teaches us Empires do not last to create a long term harmonious society. Once you lose the driving engine of abundance, decadence disintegration will follow to destruction.
Empires with homogenous society can always go back being a country/tribe. Also, the most important factor of past empires was not the brain factor it was "Trading" (robbing) natural resources from others and it still is to this day.

[lampron]

Re: The Ottomans

The kings you speak of as well as the "diplomacy " you speak of we're for the benifit of the ruling class exclusively. There is no honor in either of them.
The search for honor and decency was non existent then as well as now.
The endeavor for "empire" is ludicrous .
Your praise of the powerful is grossly misguided.
To honor anyone because they are rich or powerful is to misplace honor and honorable conduct into the hands of the greed ridden and the bigots.
To be decent and strive to be honorable is greater than monetary wealth or ?power?
You can teach your children whatever you think you can get by with, but your your praise of the disgusting conduct of the turc and the elite that delt with them is disgraceful, dishonest, and truly reprehensible.
There was and is nothing good about "empire building" . You elevate criminality to a place of honor fraudulently.
Truly disgusting argument on your part.

Who said empire building is about decency?

But empire building was still considered a 'normal' ambition for countries to follow, even 100 years ago

The Ottomans dreamt big! They dreamt about taking Vienna, Rome, Berlin...and by dreaming big they kept the Balkans and the Middle east for several centuries and eventually created a large Turkish state in Anatolia, half of it on traditional Armenian land

Armenians dreamt mostly about survival, which is why only 10% of historical Armenia is Armenia

[Azad]

Re: The Ottomans

But empires are like that. Empire building has to be inclusive and empire builders recognize the need to bring in talented people from everywhere

Let England be your example. For their short term gain with desperation they are turning the country to a paper shuffling economy from Banking to Insurance.
The country is flooded with useless losers from all around the world. Let us see what will happen in few decades.

[Eddo211]

Re: The Ottomans

Although the Ottomans brought disaster to Armenia we can also learn from them

By the time slanted eyed Turks showed up at our door step remember Armenia was invaded by many empires which we had to defend against, and we did. Problem? outnumbered 10 to 1.
Armenians and Persians were fighting Turks long before Turks reaching the Armenian highlands (no such place as Anatolia).

What Ottoman policy decisions enabled them to become a superpower?

one word....unmatched unity like Borgs.
Also Janissaries doing your fighting (stolen Armenian kids grown up as Turks) and have Armenians built your empire and create a Turkish new language.

Another power Turks had was theses big cannons and I mean the biggest built. No castle will hold up to it.

What Armenian policy decisions resulted in Armenia losing its position as the prominent entity in central and eastern Anatolia ?

Not much left of Armenian superpower of its time, no real prominent entity left after fighting all these other Empires......bloodlines lost, no leader, no unity. Not many choices with Ottoman regular race cleansing either keeping us in check.

Not many races would have survived all of this long before Turks showed up......but here we are, still alive, still no unity.