The Ottomans

[xcelr8Armo]

Re: The Ottomans

I am not kidding. I have heard about 2-3 months ago from a good source on another Armenian Forum. Someone posted it. It's not a joke, it's very sad but apparently it's true.

argh now thats horrible. i feel sorry for those children

[Anoush]

Re: The Ottomans

argh now thats horrible. i feel sorry for those children

If I was an Armenian living in Turkey, I wouldn't stay there for one more hour. I don't know why the hell there are so many Armenians still living in there. I know, I know they have buildings and businesses; but I would prefer to leave my things and go anywhere else in the world than stay there.

[xcelr8Armo]

Re: The Ottomans

If I was an Armenian living in Turkey, I wouldn't stay there for one more hour. I don't know why the hell there are so many Armenians still living in there. I know, I know they have buildings and businesses; but I would prefer to leave my things and go anywhere else in the world than stay there.

yeah i agree, sell everything and get out of there.

you never know you could pick up any sort of disease while living in Turkey

[Anoush]

Re: The Ottomans

There are Armenian organizations in the US that try to gather as many Armenians as possible from the Eastern part of Turkey to bring them over to Istanbul, then to bring them over to the US. Now that's a good thing. I'd prefer to see all the Armenians leaving Turkey and perhaps go to the Middle East, to Europe or to the US.

[xcelr8Armo]

Re: The Ottomans

thats great to hear, i didn't know that. They are much better of living in Europe or the US.

[ArmSurvival]

Re: The Ottomans

But I didn't mentioned human rights by saying they are weak.... I mentioned " In Ottoman and Seljuk age, they were weak-military,economy etc"

You said Persia was always weak. But thats fine.

As for the Seljuk age, sure the Persians were politically weak, but they had so much cultural influence over Arabs and Turks by influencing Islamic doctrines and culture.

I agree there are many cases of Armenian bravery. But collectively, if we just take the Ottoman seige and conquest of Cyprus in 1570-71, an army of 200,000 ottoman troops was assembled and shipped across the sea. An 11-month seige followed. The defenders were 7,000 strong and isolated. More than 50,000 ottoman military were killed until they conquered the island (let's leave the incredible bravery of the defenders to one side).

Just in that seige the Ottomans probably struggled more than Armenians did from 1375 to 1918.

You cannot use Ottoman military incompetance of the 16th century to justify the Ottomans' massacre of their own Armenian citizens during WWI.

You say it was a miracle that Cilicia survived that long. Instead of thinking about survival, isn't it better to think how much more powerful Cilicia could have become? The Ottomans when they crossed into the Balkans were surrounded by Bulgarians, Macedonians, Serbians, Albanians, Byzantines. Not only they 'survived', they ended up nearly taking Vienna.How did they do it?

Turks arrived on the scene when all the major powers were weakened through centuries of fighting. Most of the nations you named were small ones (Macedonians, Serbs, Albanians) or severely declining (Bulgarians and Byzantines). Its not as difficult to dominate nations when you almost always have numerical superiority through a steady migration of people from the Asian Steppes, and when all your enemies have ancient, bitter feuds and are divided as a result and are in decline. The fact that Turks were Muslims didn't hurt their relations with the entire Middle East and North Africa, either.

I don't see how you can compare Cilicia's situation with that of the Turks. Can you even name some similarities?

[TXMENIAN]

Re: The Ottomans

yeah i agree, sell everything and get out of there.

you never know you could pick up any sort of disease while living in Turkey

Amen to that.

[TXMENIAN]

Re: The Ottomans

sorry, but having a healthy Armenian population in 'turkey' is something we should encourage. these people will become very usefull for any future Armenian Millitary incursions into Turkish occupied Armenia.

In any case Turkey is already a melting pot for many different ethnie, We must continue to represent our culture there, even if its semi-turkified. lets not forget they wanted us out/dead, lets not flirt with their 'nationalist' ambitions

As long as Turkey is a NATO member, there no way Armenia is going to start war with Turkey.

[lampron]

Re: The Ottomans

You cannot use Ottoman military incompetance of the 16th century to justify the Ottomans' massacre of their own Armenian citizens during WWI.

I am talking about struggles. The sum total of all the Armenian struggles from the fall of Cilicia to the modern age. How many men involved? How much planning? How much organization? A nation's standing is determined by how much it has exterted itself

I don't see how you can compare Cilicia's situation with that of the Turks. Can you even name some similarities?

when the ottomans arrived on the shores of the Marmara sea around 1340AD, most had never seen a ship in their lives. At that time the Armenians of Cilicia controlled a prime Mediterranean seashore maybe up 200 miles long on and off for 200 years. Who had the advantage? The Armenians lost everything. The Ottomans went on to build fleets attacking the Spanish empire at the other end of the Mediterranean

[lampron]

Re: The Ottomans

As long as Turkey is a NATO member, there no way Armenia is going to start war with Turkey.

Nobody is interested in a war with Turkey (or even Azerbaijan), Turkey being in or out of NATO makes no difference. The 99.9% Armenians in Armenia are not interested. The 99.9% Armenians living comfortably in California, Texas, Florida, southern France or wherever are not interested. Karabakh is independent. The number of overseas Armenians who have chosen to live there is probably no more than 50