The Ottomans

[robertik1]

Re: The Ottomans

Why bother arguing with these turds? The moderator should ban them NOW.

[lampron]

Re: The Ottomans

Orhan Pamuk sold his country in order to Nobel. uncharacterless

you are mistaken. Because he said 1 million Armenians were massacred, doesn't mean he sold his country. In the end it's better to look at everything that happened openly. Armenians might have killed Turks and Kurds in revenge when Russian forces took Van and Bitlis in 1916. Anoush and others, Zionists only became known in 1890s. Aristakes of Lastivert was writing in the 11th century. It is better to examine where Armenians failed and what they did wrong (and still do wrong -- for another thread) instead of looking for faults with Byzantines, Ottomans, Venetians, Genoese,the Pope and then the French, British, Germans,Zionists etc. What did Armenians do in the 15th century? the 16th? the 17th?Talaat Pasha was a Bosnak (a Balkan Moslem). Mustafa Kemal's origins are unclear. If he had Joowish origins, he was active as a Turkish nationalist. If someone of Joowish origin had fought for Armenian homeland from Erzerum to Shushi would Armenians be upset?

[lampron]

Re: The Ottomans

To Hellektor I would also say that while the Ottomans were cruel, the Byzantines could sometimes be almost as cruel according to Armenian historians. It seems it was a matter of degree. One of the differences was that the ottomans had far more discipline (because of religion maybe?). When a sultan rose to the ottoman throne, he would immediately order all of his brothers and half brothers (of whom there might be several dozens, from different concubines) killed.

Nearer our times, Mustafa Kemal's biographer Lord Kinross (who generally writes sympathetically about the Turkish dictator), says that especially in the early years of his rule, Kemal would hang is rivals 'from the nearest tree'. Ottomans/Turks were ruthless to each other, not just to conquered peoples

[Kanki]

Re: The Ottomans

you are mistaken. Because he said 1 million Armenians were massacred, doesn't mean he sold his country. In the end it's better to look at everything that happened openly. Armenians might have killed Turks and Kurds in revenge when Russian forces took Van and Bitlis in 1916. Anoush and others, Zionists only became known in 1890s. Aristakes of Lastivert was writing in the 11th century. It is better to examine where Armenians failed and what they did wrong (and still do wrong -- for another thread) instead of looking for faults with Byzantines, Ottomans, Venetians, Genoese,the Pope and then the French, British, Germans,Zionists etc. What did Armenians do in the 15th century? the 16th? the 17th?Talaat Pasha was a Bosnak (a Balkan Moslem). Mustafa Kemal's origins are unclear. If he had Joowish origins, he was active as a Turkish nationalist. If someone of Joowish origin had fought for Armenian homeland from Erzerum to Shushi would Armenians be upset?

So all crime is belong to Talaat Pasha. . . I hate Ottoman Empire, So don't tell me their stupid mistakes, I don't like its any sultans . . I am not j-e-wish and Turkish people are not j-e-w-ish . . . and all the Turkish nationalists are not J-e-wish.

If your commander give you a command, you have to do it- Ottoman Turks had did this command. . . (I hate Je-ws)

[dani87]

Re: The Ottomans

Talaat Pasha was a Bosnak (a Balkan Moslem).

Taalat was a Pomak, Bulgarian muslim. There is no thing such as a pure turk, A huge majority of the Turks of Turkey have Armenian, Slavic, Bulgarian and Greek blood running in their veins. The amount of Turkic blood are minimal. It's a sad irony especially for the forefathers of these so called "turks" who from their cursed graves can see their offspring wreaking havoc on their own people.

[Hellektor]

Re: The Ottomans

Turks were always in Central Asia! Our known history started with Great Asian Hun Empire ( Not European Huns ) Empire lasted BC 220 And 56...
And This the map http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../2e/Hunlar.PNG

Turks spread throughout Central Asia AFTER the sixth century AD. You believe what you want to believe. You believe the Cacaturk bullshit history according to which all languages originated from Turkish and Sumerians, Assyrians, Akkadians, Babylonians, Arameans, Manni, Mittani, Arrata, Urartu, Hurrians, Hittites, Elamite, Medians, Achaemenids, Parthians, Scythians, Aluanians, Egyptians, Etruscans, Lydians, Thracians, Phrygians, Greeks and what not are in fact Turks as naturally as genetic “research” in Turkey “prove” beyond question that Kurds, Eskimos, Native Americans, Incas, Aztecs, Mayas, Martians, Saturnans, Jupiterians, Venusians, pre-Big Bangians, Residents of the Black Hole and heaven knows what, are all Turks as well.

Reread my Turanian Fallacy and also go read some valid historians on Turks like Chavannes, Gumilev, Markwart, Bartold, Minorsky, etc.

Horosan is Turkish ancient city and Today it is in Turkmenistan's lands not Iran.It is destroyed by Mongols Today there is no Horasan.

There's no cure for brainwash, what can I do? I was born in Iran, I grew up in Iran and I know that Khorasan is the northeastern province of Iran (where Ferdowsi also hails from) since the beginning of history. Part of it (Bactria/Balkh) was lost to Afghanistan in the 18th century AD, when the latter separated from the motherland Persia as a result of not wanting to become Shiites.

[robertik1]

Re: The Ottomans

Turks spread throughout Central Asia AFTER the sixth century AD. You believe what you want to believe. You believe the Cacaturk bullshit history according to which all languages originated from Turkish and Sumerians, Assyrians, Akkadians, Babylonians, Arameans, Manni, Mittani, Arrata, Urartu, Hurrians, Hittites, Elamite, Medians, Achaemenids, Parthians, Scythians, Aluanians, Egyptians, Etruscans, Lydians, Thracians, Phrygians, Greeks and what not are in fact Turks as naturally as genetic “research” in Turkey “prove” beyond question that Kurds, Eskimos, Native Americans, Incas, Aztecs, Mayas, Martians, Saturnans, Jupiterians, Venusians, pre-Big Bangians, Residents of the Black Hole and heaven knows what, are all Turks as well.

Reread my Turanian Fallacy and also go read some valid historians on Turks like Chavannes, Gumilev, Markwart, Bartold, Minorsky, etc.


There's no cure for brainwash, what can I do? I was born in Iran, I grew up in Iran and I know that Khorasan is the northeastern province of Iran (where Ferdowsi also hails from) since the beginning of history. Part of it (Bactria/Balkh) was lost to Afghanistan in the 18th century AD, when the latter separated from the motherland Persia as a result of not wanting to become Shiites.

Right as ever Hellektor. Why bother talking with these turds?

[Hellektor]

Re: The Ottomans

Hellektor, it is impossible not to be moved by the accounts of Aristakes of Lastivert. Even if there might be some one sidedness, there is probably no doubt that terrible things happened.

The thing is, all who have recorded the Turkic invasions, regardless of race, nationality, language or religion, have given similar horrific accounts.

Somewhere in my thingy I have said “...nothing like what befell the peoples west of the Caspian starting from the 11th century AD had ever been experienced. The historians’ descriptions of the inhumanity of the marauding Turkic hordes sound like most horrific nightmares and were they not confirmed by all the chroniclers of the peoples of the cradle of civilization, one would think the given author was the founder of surrealistic literature.”

Much of world history is about empire builders and victims. The Othmans, or Seljuks or Oghuz or Ak-koyunlu, Kara-koyunlu etc took advantage of the Armenians' inability to organize and fight. Whether it was the Byzantines, Bulgarians, Armenia's poor geography,the cruelty of the Seljuks, Turks etc...in the end, it was down to the Armenians to free themselves from oppression. The Russians did it by themselves (from the Tatars) but not Armenians, Greeks etc

Oh, Armenians can fight very well! If I were to give examples of Armenian bravery and the ability to organize and fight, I would have to write a thick book.

Don't forget the most fearful of all Ottoman armies were the Janissaries, most of them stolen kids of the Armenians.

There's hardly a battle in Iranian history where the Armenians have not provided a vital component to its victory. The first Iranian empire the Medes being hostile to Armenia, the Armenian king helps Cyrus to overthrow them yet the Great Cyrus, the first to proclaim a declaration on human rights, cited 27 times in Jew mythology, considered a prophet and a savior who freed them from Babylon, screwed the Armenian king and conquered Armenia.

His successor Darius, the greatest king überhaupt had to invade Armenia five times to quench the rebellion.

Arshak II's army, tired of waiting for the Persians to come to start the battle, destroys the Romans and when Shapur II arrives he is amazed of scene of the dead Roman soldiers, yet he betrays Arshak, blinds him and imprisons him in Anhoosh tower in Andimeshk.

The kings of Cilicia had to do with several powerful enemies: the bandit Mamluks of Egypt, the Iconian (Seljuk) bandit empire, the Crusader fucks who killed more Armenians than you know and the Latin kingdoms. Ironically it was clever move of Cilician kings to enter a pact with the Mongols who helped the Armenians in some cases against these enemies (though they did not stick to the treaty until the end, alas...). Hardly a decade went by for the Cilician kingdom without invasions - sometimes from more than one side - throughout its three (or four, according to how one sees it) centuries. It is a miracle the kingdom lasted as long as it did.

In a more recent history the Meliks of Artsakh always ensured the security of the northwestern borders of Persia, and I copy/paste again from my thingy:

“In eastern parts of Armenia that were under Iranian rule, [Safavids] needed the Armenian sympathy for their empire, thus, for instance, according to the great Armenian historic novelist Raffi (1835-1888), Shah Abbass recognized the Armenian Meliks (Arabic for king(s)) of Karabakh (Artsakh), Nader Shah acknowledged the Melikdoms’ autonomy and Agha Mohammad Khan promised them greater authority... the Armenian Meliks (kings) of Karabakh (Artsakh) helped Nader in ridding Iran of the Ottomans once and for all, for which service they received Nader’s praise who reaffirmed their autonomy and recognized their rule of Artsakh.”

Further examples are the Vartanank and Vahanank battles against Sassanid oppression to Bagratuni revolts against the Caliphate to Davit Beg's rebellion to Sardarabad, Bash Abaran, Karakilisa battles against genocidal Turks in 1918 to the rebellion against the Judeo-Bolshevik rule in 1921 to the Artsakh war in our own days that shook the foundations of the Soviet Empire, admitted even by the anti-Armenian Gorbachev, yet Poland that wasn't even part of the USSR gets all the credit backed by the hoaxers who always fabricate history that serves their purposes.

In fact if you pay attention, the Armenians hardly ever lost on the battleground. It was and still is mostly about treachery (thank god I wrote the thingy and I can copy/paste in every occasion which saves me some time):

“Usually, they would cunningly invite the Armenian king to a banquet and stab or poison him to death, like in the case of king Antiochus Yervanduni of Commagene and Artavazd II who was kidnapped by Mark Anthony to Egypt and was executed, or king Pap of Armenia who refused to obey Roman dictates and was savagely butchered at a Roman dinner table, or Arshak II who had done priceless service to the Sassanid king Shapur II, who he blinded and imprisoned for life in the Anhush tower, or the invitation of 800 Armenian princes and notables in 708 AD for talks and their burning in churches in Nakhijevan by Muhammad ibn Marwan the caliph’s governor of Armenia…”

The genocidal Turk “won” by cheating, by recruiting all the able-bodied men from the same nation they accuse of betrayal and cunningly executing them, arresting and eliminating the intellectuals then sending all the women, children and elderly (the real sources of danger) to the desert to roast; not an exemplary case of Turk bravery I would say.

And it is being repeated today before our own eyes where with a huge assistance of the Eurofag and Judeo-Saxon faggotry and especially the Jew owned “NGO”s and media, the history of Artsakh war is being presented upside down. The Armenians are the bad guys and the genocidal aggressor, the sore fucking “Azeri” losers and perpetrators of genocide and war are masqueraded as poor victims and are demanding territory that never belonged to their counterfeit state legally or historically, with the cacophonous screeches of the “international” community accompanying their sniveling and whimpering, sucking up to the Turk just like they did in the dark days of the Genocide.

My main problem with the Turk creature is its unbelievable self-righteousness:

not only the Armenians almost built their fucking Empire of Rape, fought their wars in form of janissaries, ran the Ottoman economy, the Armenian farmers took care that the lazy Tatar asses were full while their own backs broke under unbearably heavy taxes of all sorts, pioneered every concept of modernity, art, culture, literature, music, etc., even provided the Turks with genes to lose their Mongoloid features, yet they got nothing but death, destruction, subjugation, slavery, terror, rape, pillage, plunder and genocide in return.

Despite all this, the Turk not only denies their ugly history; not only they continue the genocide in a hundred and one ways by destroying our heritage, changing Armenian place names, flora and fauna with armeniaca or armenicus, etc. in them, works hard to turkify the secret Armenians and with help from mainly Judeo-Saxon distorians, they discredit all our historians from Khorenatsi, Parpetsi, Pavstos Buzand... to present day Armenian scholars, denying us our heritage, subscribing the kingdom of Van to the Turks;

not only the Turk sets preconditions to perpetuate its pan-Turkist plan of the destruction of Armenia... the worst of all, the Turk projects their savagery on Armenians. This is the point that pisses me off the most and I do not see a precedence or a parallel to this despicable behavior. “The Armenians betrayed “their” masters and got what they deserved” turkpuke is the thing that drives me mad. After all, how can you betray pestilence?

[Kanki]

Re: The Ottomans

Turks spread throughout Central Asia AFTER the sixth century AD.

You had display your ignorance at Turkish ancient history, AFTER THE 16. CENTURY hahahaha Haha Hey Guy Turks came Anatolia in 11. Century how could it be!!! We were always there, because we are Central Asian, East side of Caspian Sea. Your Khrosan and our Horasan is different, You are right Khroasan is Area in Iran but Horasan was a city, destroyed by Mongols.

[lampron]

Re: The Ottomans

Somewhere in my thingy I have said “...nothing like what befell the peoples west of the Caspian starting from the 11th century AD had ever been experienced. The historians’ descriptions of the inhumanity of the marauding Turkic hordes sound like most horrific nightmares and were they not confirmed by all the chroniclers of the peoples of the cradle of civilization, one would think the given author was the founder of surrealistic literature.”


Oh, Armenians can fight very well! If I were to give examples of Armenian bravery and the ability to organize and fight, I would have to write a thick book.

Don't forget the most fearful of all Ottoman armies were the Janissaries, most of them stolen kids of the Armenians.

There's hardly a battle in Iranian history where the Armenians have not provided a vital component to its victory. The first Iranian empire the Medes being hostile to Armenia, the Armenian king helps Cyrus to overthrow them yet the Great Cyrus, the first to proclaim a declaration on human rights, cited 27 times in Jew mythology, considered a prophet and a savior who freed them from Babylon, screwed the Armenian king and conquered Armenia.

His successor Darius, the greatest king überhaupt had to invade Armenia five times to quench the rebellion.

Arshak II's army, tired of waiting for the Persians to come to start the battle, destroys the Romans and when Shapur II arrives he is amazed of scene of the dead Roman soldiers, yet he betrays Arshak, blinds him and imprisons him in Anhoosh tower in Andimeshk.

The kings of Cilicia had to do with several powerful enemies: the bandit Mamluks of Egypt, the Iconian (Seljuk) bandit empire, the Crusader fucks who killed more Armenians than you know and the Latin kingdoms. Ironically it was clever move of Cilician kings to enter a pact with the Mongols who helped the Armenians in some cases against these enemies (though they did not stick to the treaty until the end, alas...). Hardly a decade went by for the Cilician kingdom without invasions - sometimes from more than one side - throughout its three (or four, according to how one sees it) centuries. It is a miracle the kingdom lasted as long as it did.

In a more recent history the Meliks of Artsakh always ensured the security of the northwestern borders of Persia, and I copy/paste again from my thingy:

how can you betray pestilence?[/URL]

The horrific nightmares would seem surreal indeed! But which empires have invaded by offering tea and cookies ? You could say that there have been more or less enlightened empires, but what's done is done. The clock can't be turned back.

I agree there are many cases of Armenian bravery. But collectively, if we just take the Ottoman seige and conquest of Cyprus in 1570-71, an army of 200,000 ottoman troops was assembled and shipped across the sea. An 11-month seige followed. The defenders were 7,000 strong and isolated. More than 50,000 ottoman military were killed until they conquered the island (let's leave the incredible bravery of the defenders to one side).

Just in that seige the Ottomans probably struggled more than Armenians did from 1375 to 1918.

You say it was a miracle that Cilicia survived that long. Instead of thinking about survival, isn't it better to think how much more powerful Cilicia could have become? The Ottomans when they crossed into the Balkans were surrounded by Bulgarians, Macedonians, Serbians, Albanians, Byzantines. Not only they 'survived', they ended up nearly taking Vienna.How did they do it?